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Pakistan : Terrorist Wahabi Islamic Rep Pakistan 7
the attackers were wearing PA uniforms.

2 P-3C orion Destroyed Geo TV

Breaking : 4 Navy personnel been killed so far: geo
from paki fora-

A retired PNS pilot just mentioned on ARY news that there is 1 KM strip which the terrorist could have exploited ..... this is a walled area however once climbed one land right near where the PC3 Orion was parked !!!
Paki fora

Quote:What my sources are telling me:

This was a raid, the specific targets were the P-3C's.

There are no terrorists in the base now, they came, attacked and have escaped.

The SSG, Army etc came later to secure the base after the damage was done.

As of now, no terrorists have been captured, or killed in action, as the response from the security establishment was rather late.
[quote name='Naresh' date='23 May 2011 - 12:53 AM' timestamp='1306091703' post='111648']


According to the SAMAA Live Link Four Foreigners among the dead.

Cheers [Image: beer.gif]


They are playing sentimental songs. <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />
Chinese hostage

6 Paki uniformed died.

Operation is still on.

Building is considered sensitive.
Why I think this is Lal Masjid revenge?

PAF airmen are taking revenge. This is inside watch.
On Duniya, one Motharma was saying that this is inside job. She said, even during two assassination attempt on Mushy life, Naval airmen were involved and because of internal situation, this fact was hushed up. Now time had come to check Naval airmen.
Mudy< What were the PRC guys doing on PNS naval aviation base with US supplied planes? And no US display of surprise!

I think they were integrating the nooks for use in the onions as a counter for Arihant type of subs. Recall its a threat to both(TSP, PRC and US on the side) of them.


[Image: beer.gif]
[quote name='ramana' date='23 May 2011 - 09:00 PM' timestamp='1306164171' post='111671']

Mudy< What were the PRC guys doing on PNS naval aviation base with US supplied planes? And no US display of surprise!

I think they were integrating the nooks for use in the onions as a counter for Arihant type of subs. Recall its a threat to both(TSP, PRC and US on the side) of them.


US and Chini engineers were present in that building. I don't understand, what the heck these guys were doing after 10.40 pm. Not a normal working day.

[quote name='Mudy' date='24 May 2011 - 07:06 AM' timestamp='1306200537' post='111673']

US and Chini engineers were present in that building. I don't understand, what the heck these guys were doing after 10.40 pm. Not a normal working day.


Mudly Ji :

May be only Chinese Engineers were present.

Mentioning the "US" Engineers could be to earn Gratitude from Joe Six Pack!

Cheers [Image: beer.gif]

The Daoud Gilani/David Headley testimony is proving closer and closer to your scenario. There was a navy frogman etc.

What do you think those 11 Chinese personnel were doing at PNS Mehran at 10:30pm on the Onion aircraft?

BTW, NYT reports China admits they were taken hostage for part of the time.

Most likely there was barter for them which accounts for the different number of terrorist/miscreants and their disappearance!

Could the disappeared terrorists taek away some special materials being integrated?
Ashok Mehta in Pioneer, 25 May 2011

Belligerence as Defence

Quote:Belligerence as defence

May 25, 2011 1:21:33 AM

Ashok K Mehta

The Osama bin Laden episode has done nothing to change equations in Pakistan or its Army’s attitude. Pakistan still remains a military with a state.

We all got it wrong. On ‘transformational change’ in Pakistan following the US Navy SEALs plucking Osama bin Laden from the bowels of Abbottabad — which we 5 Gorkhas still call ‘Houdabas’ — cantonment. All manner of contingencies were visualised about altering the civil-military power balance, reining in the ISI, boosting democracy, resetting US-Pakistan relations and other wishful scenarios to make Pakistan a ‘normal’ country, a state with an Army and not the other way round.

Three weeks on, we erring mortals are lamenting the missed opportunity, the first since 1971 when the Pakistani military suffered its worst defeat and democracy was briefly restored. This time around Pakistan’s brittle democracy and silent majority could not bring the Army to book. The only politician of standing who called for the Army’s head is former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif who suffered multiple indignities at the hands of General Pervez Musharraf.

Not surprisingly, Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s initial statement in the National Assembly a week after Osama bin Laden was taken out and ISI chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha’s marathon briefing to a joint session of Parliament produced no earth-shattering revelations except mild condemnation of the US’s unilateral action, stern warning to India were it to replicate Operation Geronimo, unflinching praise for the military, especially the ISI which was described by Mr Gilani as a ‘national asset’, and sundry Twitter jokes about the Army and the ISI. Hired Army loyalists were paraded in the streets defending the custodians of Pakistan’s soul and sovereignty.

Lessons from the Osama bin Laden affair have been enumerated in detail though many were lost in the fog of the daring raid. The limits of American power to change the behaviour of the Pakistani military and the importance of being ISI topped the list. As Islamabad called off the US visit of the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Khalid Shameem Wynne, four out of five Americans were calling for stopping aid to Pakistan. Regardless of mutual finger-wagging, both the US and Pakistan know they need each other, most critically the CIA and the ISI. Time magazine has focussed on the ‘S’ — strategic — and ‘R’ — operations — wings of the ISI, its brain and brawn. Both the CIA and the ISI have their own priorities and do not share intelligence 100 per cent as recent events have shown.

Besides the incapacities of the US to regulate the conduct of the Pakistani military, Pakistan’s civil society is equally impotent notwithstanding the vibrance of a free media. Week after week, Dawn columnist Kamran Shafi, a former Army officer, keeps lambasting the ‘Deep State’, a euphemism for the ISI, with colourful similes like ‘running with the hare and hunting with the hounds’ and ‘our pets have started biting us’, howling that the Taliban and Al Qaeda can never be strategic assets.

Pakistan’s military handbook is replete with mythical victories, including its debacle at Kargil. It names the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Tayyeba as strategic assets, its crown jewels being the nuclear arsenal which has recently been embellished with low yield tactical nuclear missiles to counter India’s mythical Cold Start doctrine. The latest addition to the strategic assets gallery is — hold your breath — the ISI whose resolute chief Lt Gen Pasha offered to resign for any “intentional” intelligence failure.

The ISI is so deeply rooted in the institutional power structure of Pakistan, especially after 9/11, that it is virtually impossible to remove it root and branch. The latest WikiLeaks revelations show that the US had tried unsuccessfully for Lt Gen Pasha to travel to India to help in the investigation into the 26/11 attack but General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani forced Mr Gilani to reverse his decision. Gen Kayani overruling the visit maintains military supremacy over the civilian Government.

According to WikiLeaks, Pakistan’s former National Security Adviser, General Mohammed Ali Durrani admitted his country’s hand in the bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul in 2008 but said “ISI didn’t do it — though we have some contacts with bad guys and perhaps one of them did it.” No clearer reference to the ISI’s links with bad guys is needed. Pakistani American David Coleman Headly, the prosecution witness in the ongoing Chicago trial of Tahawwur Hussain Rana, has pointed to the ISI’s complicity in 26/11. This could further turn the knife into the ISI.

The former ISI chief, Lt Gen Assad Durrani, has characterised US-Pakistan tensions as “being effectively at war”. Gen Kayani has given notice to the US, ostensibly establishing new ground rules for cooperation by demanding that America curtail its footprint on Pakistani soil and in airspace. The next US-Pakistan strategic dialogue has been scheduled for July this year, coinciding with the deadline for the drawdown of American forces in Afghanistan. The US wishes to retain the upper hand by threatening to raid the Haqqani network in North Waziristan.

Gen Kayani wants the ISI to be directly involved in any future reconciliation dialogue with President Hamid Karzai and the Americans. A US-Afghanistan-Pakistan deal on power-sharing is in the offing. The price Pakistan is expected to pay for this is going after the Haqqanis in Kurram. A new military offensive could be on the cards in the coming weeks. Pakistan may not be able to hedge against all its strategic assets on the western front any more. Some of Pakistan’s ‘bad guys’ are likely to be put on the mat as a quid pro quo for a Pushtoon-led power-sharing deal. This is billed as Lt Gen Pasha’s next trick.

Not to be left out of the ‘Great Game’, China has stood firmly with its ‘all-weather’ friend Pakistan, announcing that the relationship is “higher than the Karakoram and deeper than the Indian Ocean”. It held out the threat — usually reserved in the case of Nepal — that an attack on Pakistan would be construed as an attack on China. While Beijing advised Washington, DC to respect Pakistan’s sovereignty, the real warning was meant for New Delhi.

Pakistan has failed to turn the corner and missed the opportunity to normalise the state because this can only be done by the US. Sadly the US does not realise that Pakistan has to be fixed before it can exit Afghanistan to avoid repeating mistakes of the past.

Meanwhile, the inquiry into the Osama bin Laden fiasco the Army had ordered under its Adjutant General, Lt Gen Javed Iqbal, will go ahead with three other investigations. The more things change, say the French, the more they remain the same. While ‘Oye Pasha’ jokes mount after Sunday’s Mehran raid, it will still be “Long Live ISI!”

-- The visual accompanying this article is a photograph of the aftermath of the Taliban’s raid on PNS Mehran at Faisalabad airbase in Karachi, by Shakil Adil/AP.

ramana Ji :

Where did the [color="#FF0000"]Frogman[/color] come from?

[url="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Chicago-case-puts-US-support-to-Pakistan-on-trial/articleshow/8559114.cms"]Chicago case puts US support to Pakistan on trial[/url]

WASHINGTON: Far away from the courtroom drama in Chicago, in rarefied policy making circles in Washington DC, the Obama administration is also on trial for continued support to Pakistan despite copious information spilling out on the witness stand about the country's sponsorship of terrorism and the role of its spy agency ISI in the Mumbai attack.

What puts the US administration in a fix -- and spotlight -- is that the information is coming from the government's own witness. Testimony by the Department of Justice's star prosecution witness David Headley in the trial of his friend Tawahhur Hussain Rana has left no doubt about the complicity of Pakistani intelligence agency ISI in overseeing the Mumbai terrorist attacks in 2008 which killed 170 people, including six Americans.

Headley, who plea bargained with the government to escape death penalty, says he reported to a serving ISI officer named Major Iqbal among others ahead of the Mumbai attack, [color="#FF0000"][size="5"]and a Pakistani Navy frogman helped land terrorists for the attack.[/size][/color] He is also providing elaborate details about the ISI's nexus with Lashkar-e-Taiba and other terrorist entities which are formally designated as such by the State Department.

That leaves the Obama administration little wiggle room in avoiding formally designating ISI as a terrorist entity, although informally Washington already considers it a "terrorist support entity," as disclosed in secret cables.

The State Department has been circumspect in addressing information emerging from the Chicago trial, even though it is a DoJ witness who is implicating ISI, and by inference, the Pakistani government (since Islamabad insists that the spy agency is compliant with government directives).

"Those are allegations, and we've asked the Pakistani Government to address those allegations in the past," State Department spokesman Mark Toner said on Monday, adding he didn't want to "get in beyond that" since the trial was ongoing.

But there is growing unease in policy circles about how long Washington can continue to shield Pakistan citing its critical importance in the war on terror, especially in a case where Americans were also killed.

Bruce Riedel, a former CIA analyst now with the Brookings Institution, who has written extensively on Pakistan's ties to terrorism, says the Obama administration simply can't make the call. "I think it remains unlikely Department of State (DoS) will put ISI on the terrorist list. They are just too important," he told ToI.

The Chicago proceedings also animated a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on Tuesday, with at least two Senators wanting Pakistan to be called to account for its sponsorship of terrorism.

"I don't know how we can just ignore that. The United States should confront Pakistan's support to terrorists," said Senator Ben Cardin, referring to the testimony from Headley implicating ISI, which one witness, CIA analyst Paul Pillar said could not be differentiated from the Pakistan military. "That is an issue that will come to consideration of US Congress," Cardin warned.

But three witnesses who testified at the hearing all seemed to agree that Washington could not call Pakistan to heel despite its sponsorship of terrorism because of larger political and geo-strategic compulsions.

"Pakistan is both an arsonist and a fireman. It continues to support terrorists," said Georgetown University's Christine Fair, citing the long history of U.S indulgence towards its ally in the matter. "The ISI has enormous clout...service-to-service channel is important," explained former CIA analyst Paul Pillar. "We have to do business with them even though we cannot trust them."

P. S. I had stated that the “Super Commando(es)” landed in Mumbai and is-are now working in India!

Cheers [Image: beer.gif]
I agree you were right.

Also frogman came from the well!
Cross posting ...

[url="http://www.kforcegov.com/Services/IS/NightWatch/NightWatch_11000107.aspx"]NightWatch [/url]For the Night of 19 May 2011

Quote:China-Pakistan: Update. On the third day of Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani's visit to China - and the 60th anniversary of diplomatic relations, [size="3"][color="#FF0000"]China warned that any attack on Pakistan would be tantamount to an attack on China[/color][/size], The News reported.

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao reportedly told Pakistani Prime Minister Gilani that Chinese Foreign Minister Yang Jiechi warned Washington during the U.S.-China Strategic and Economic Dialogue to respect Pakistan's sovereignty. Moreover, Beijing will send a special envoy to Islamabad to express solidarity with Pakistan, a senior Chinese official said.

Comment: The precise wording and the intentions of the Chinese are not clear and there seems to be less substance than grandstanding. The words suggest China has agreed to act as Pakistan's protector, in some circumstances.

China's implied promise of a response would seem to apply to another US raid against terrorists and to drone attacks. What is not clear is how China might honor that commitment.

The language also seems to indicate that China would assist Pakistan in the event of an attack from India. China has done so for 40 years. On the other hand, the new alliance language also might imply that in the event of a war between India and China, [color="#FF0000"]Pakistan would be obliged to attack India on the flank[/color].

[color="#0000FF"]A violation of sovereignty is an act of war, but it cuts in many directions. For example, Pakistan's harboring of Taliban leader Mullah Omar is certainly a hostile act against Afghanistan and arguably an act of war.[/color]

Nevertheless, the language reported by The News indicates a significant strengthening of the defense relationship, possibly converting it into an alliance as close as that which China has with North Korea. After the US, China is emerging as the largest beneficiary from the death of bin Laden!

So nuclear attack by TSP on India will assuredly invite Indian second strike on Pakistan and China.

The question is how credible is this posture given that:

  1. Indian nuclear weapons are so few if they have to be credible against not just Paki-satan but also China
  2. Indian weapon yield is something that China has derided and is no match compared to Chinese nuclear fire power
  3. The quantity of Indian Agni missiles required to take on Paki and China does not simply exist; particularity given that Agni-3, Agni-4 Agni- 5 Agni- 6 Agni -8 .. 9 .. 10.... are not yet proven and worse still do not yet exist in inventory

Indian military doctrine and capability are HOT words, and no better than gastric flatulence.

[quote name='ramana' date='25 May 2011 - 03:37 AM' timestamp='1306274343' post='111682']

I agree you were right.

Also [color="#FF0000"][size="5"]frogman[/size] came from the well[/color]![/quote]

ramana Ji :

And the well was in the - you guessed it right - SUBMARINE!

Cheers [Image: beer.gif]


Pakistan’s Chief of Naval Staff, Admiral Noman Bashir says

The Attack on P N S Mehran is not a Security Lapse

And Admiral Noman Bashir is an Honourable Man

So are they all – Pakistani Bureaucratic, Feudal, Islamic, Jehadi, Military, Religious, Terrorist Leaders etc. – all Honourable Men

Come I to bury Pakistan.

Secret Information : This was a Lapse on the Part of Sri Lanka, Maldives and Rwanda! (@ 3m:35s)

Cheers [Image: beer.gif]

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