03-23-2006, 10:46 PM
Ben, I am at a loss to understand the point you are trying to make here. Jews (or Judaism) is a religion that can be passed on as an idealogy. Genetics are specific to an individual and his ascendents and possible descendents which can only be passed down physically.
<b>yes. of course. and for a people who have been at the receiving end of some ot histories greatest attrocities they have also been at the "receiving end' of some of the most gifted peopel ever born.</b>
Now, at one point you were mentioning that Judaism is one of the two <b>greatest</b> religions and Buddhism did not count.
<b>i maintain that stand. buddhism is a 2nd hand religion. there are only 2 great religious systems in the world - the judiac and the hindic.</b>
The reason you gave for Judaism's greatness was it was a dictatorial (sic) religion.
<b>i certainly did not give the dictatoric nature of judaism as the reason for its greatness just as much as i did not say that hinduism is great cos its democratic. i pointed out that while one epitomised the democratic/bell curve type of religion, the other exemplified the dictatorial/formula type.
these 2 religious systems stem from 2 basic characters of humans.
a streak of indivudiality and a need (or willingness) to follow.
hinduism and all paganism is a product of the former while judaism and all religions that have a founder rely on the human need and desire to conform and follow( ie. be led like sheep.)</b>
Later on you also agreed that Old testamenet (which forms an indespensable portion of Judaism) is tribal and gruesome.
<b>yes.</b>
I do not see how it can be gruesome and GREATEST religion at the same time.
<b>well it is. hitler was gruesome and great at the same time too.
judaism is not great BECAUSE its gruesome though.
its great cos it exemplifies one of the two possible kinds of religion. great because its one of the oldest religions and has been preserved to this day, just like hinduism. its great cos its swawned 2 of the world's biggest religiuons howsoever disagreeable those 2 may be. great cos of the influence its had on society and historyy of mankind and for 4000+ years now.
</b>
Religion is usually a means for Self-Realisaiton or Self upliftment.
<b>
yes. going by the list of overachieving jews, they need no further self upliftment and self realisation (or self actualisation, as Maslow would put it). we could do with some tho.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Any thoughtful and intelligent person who reads the Old Testament
will come away disgusted.
true. the OT is tribal history at best - and very guresome at that. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Coming to genetics, if you squarely put the greatness of Jews to be genetic,
<b>the reason why the ashkenazi are SO intelligent IS genetic. why they excell (lots of intelligent people often dont) is cos of ambient reasons, be it harsh circumstance, a need to stay ahead of a perilious society or being in the right (ie. flourishing) cities at the right time etc.</b>
and if it is true, then there is nothing the world can do to 'aquire' those genes. What then is your proposed solution ? Just gawk and bow down to the Jews?
<b>nope. just accept things as they are ie. call a spade a spade and give others their due. besides where does the question of a "solution" come, since its not a "problem" that they are smart. its just a matter of interest and curiosity.</b>
I respect the Jews, and they definitely are our friends and allies in the war against a common enemy. But I cannot see your point in harping that they are the greatest of the greatest and the world would not be possible without them.
<b>
well its not me that says that they have the greatest people amongst them. facts say that. and yes without einstein there'd be no relativity, without freud no psychoanalysis, without marx no communism, without wiseman no genetics, without engelberger no robotics, without milton friedman no modern economics, without gellman no particle physics as we know it etc etc.</b>
Well, Mother Nature is quite intelligent enough to help Human Beings evolve into more intelligent creatures. Thus Jews or no Jews, Hindus or no Hindus, the human <b>race will progress towards better adaptation.
sure. what makes you think that humans evolve equally?? why arnt there too many blacks in NASA?</b>
On a lighter note, how many Jews have been the greatest 100m sprinters in Olympics,
<b>
not many. proves horseshit thout, 100 metres races. mark spitz alone won some 6 golds in swimming tho.</b>
or how many Ms.World / Ms.Universes are jews.
<b>not many or none. lots of hollywod starlets and queens are jewish though.</b>
How many taxi drivers are jews?
<b>wont be surprised to knwo that there arnt any.</b>
How many Siddhas, Yogis, Self-realized mahatmas are jews ?
<b>
read my list - einstein, gell mann, wisemann, bengurion, friedman etc etc.</b>
Recap: I still do not know what the purpose of this thread is other than singing bhajans of Jews and dissing Indian culture.
<b>dissing is used to mean "discussing" no dismissing.
the purpose of this thread was to ponder about why and how the peopel who have the fakest of religios systems and the most gruesome of religions also are the ones who make the world go round.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->mathematics,
omg...... without jews we would not have math and physics as we know it now. indians are non-entities here.
astrology,
a highly doubious subject. indians reign supreme here!!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>
both the jewish contribution to math and the indian hard-on for astrology need no further discussing. its there for everyone to see.</b>
and now if no one will come with relevant replies to the REAL question of the thread (what makes jews so remarkable) then we may as well close this thread. i wish Dhu would answer one last time tho. or Aryaman.
<b>yes. of course. and for a people who have been at the receiving end of some ot histories greatest attrocities they have also been at the "receiving end' of some of the most gifted peopel ever born.</b>
Now, at one point you were mentioning that Judaism is one of the two <b>greatest</b> religions and Buddhism did not count.
<b>i maintain that stand. buddhism is a 2nd hand religion. there are only 2 great religious systems in the world - the judiac and the hindic.</b>
The reason you gave for Judaism's greatness was it was a dictatorial (sic) religion.
<b>i certainly did not give the dictatoric nature of judaism as the reason for its greatness just as much as i did not say that hinduism is great cos its democratic. i pointed out that while one epitomised the democratic/bell curve type of religion, the other exemplified the dictatorial/formula type.
these 2 religious systems stem from 2 basic characters of humans.
a streak of indivudiality and a need (or willingness) to follow.
hinduism and all paganism is a product of the former while judaism and all religions that have a founder rely on the human need and desire to conform and follow( ie. be led like sheep.)</b>
Later on you also agreed that Old testamenet (which forms an indespensable portion of Judaism) is tribal and gruesome.
<b>yes.</b>
I do not see how it can be gruesome and GREATEST religion at the same time.
<b>well it is. hitler was gruesome and great at the same time too.
judaism is not great BECAUSE its gruesome though.
its great cos it exemplifies one of the two possible kinds of religion. great because its one of the oldest religions and has been preserved to this day, just like hinduism. its great cos its swawned 2 of the world's biggest religiuons howsoever disagreeable those 2 may be. great cos of the influence its had on society and historyy of mankind and for 4000+ years now.
</b>
Religion is usually a means for Self-Realisaiton or Self upliftment.
<b>
yes. going by the list of overachieving jews, they need no further self upliftment and self realisation (or self actualisation, as Maslow would put it). we could do with some tho.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Any thoughtful and intelligent person who reads the Old Testament
will come away disgusted.
true. the OT is tribal history at best - and very guresome at that. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Coming to genetics, if you squarely put the greatness of Jews to be genetic,
<b>the reason why the ashkenazi are SO intelligent IS genetic. why they excell (lots of intelligent people often dont) is cos of ambient reasons, be it harsh circumstance, a need to stay ahead of a perilious society or being in the right (ie. flourishing) cities at the right time etc.</b>
and if it is true, then there is nothing the world can do to 'aquire' those genes. What then is your proposed solution ? Just gawk and bow down to the Jews?
<b>nope. just accept things as they are ie. call a spade a spade and give others their due. besides where does the question of a "solution" come, since its not a "problem" that they are smart. its just a matter of interest and curiosity.</b>
I respect the Jews, and they definitely are our friends and allies in the war against a common enemy. But I cannot see your point in harping that they are the greatest of the greatest and the world would not be possible without them.
<b>
well its not me that says that they have the greatest people amongst them. facts say that. and yes without einstein there'd be no relativity, without freud no psychoanalysis, without marx no communism, without wiseman no genetics, without engelberger no robotics, without milton friedman no modern economics, without gellman no particle physics as we know it etc etc.</b>
Well, Mother Nature is quite intelligent enough to help Human Beings evolve into more intelligent creatures. Thus Jews or no Jews, Hindus or no Hindus, the human <b>race will progress towards better adaptation.
sure. what makes you think that humans evolve equally?? why arnt there too many blacks in NASA?</b>
On a lighter note, how many Jews have been the greatest 100m sprinters in Olympics,
<b>
not many. proves horseshit thout, 100 metres races. mark spitz alone won some 6 golds in swimming tho.</b>
or how many Ms.World / Ms.Universes are jews.
<b>not many or none. lots of hollywod starlets and queens are jewish though.</b>
How many taxi drivers are jews?
<b>wont be surprised to knwo that there arnt any.</b>
How many Siddhas, Yogis, Self-realized mahatmas are jews ?
<b>
read my list - einstein, gell mann, wisemann, bengurion, friedman etc etc.</b>
Recap: I still do not know what the purpose of this thread is other than singing bhajans of Jews and dissing Indian culture.
<b>dissing is used to mean "discussing" no dismissing.
the purpose of this thread was to ponder about why and how the peopel who have the fakest of religios systems and the most gruesome of religions also are the ones who make the world go round.</b>
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->mathematics,
omg...... without jews we would not have math and physics as we know it now. indians are non-entities here.
astrology,
a highly doubious subject. indians reign supreme here!!
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>
both the jewish contribution to math and the indian hard-on for astrology need no further discussing. its there for everyone to see.</b>
and now if no one will come with relevant replies to the REAL question of the thread (what makes jews so remarkable) then we may as well close this thread. i wish Dhu would answer one last time tho. or Aryaman.