01-16-2004, 01:35 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sbajwa, but how many sikhs also are ignorant about our hoary history and tradition? When did this happen and how did this happen? Was it a recent one? I have few sikh acquaitances who themselves claim they are closer to Islam than Hinduism.
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Guru Nanak Says
IK OM Kar
Satt Naam
Karta Purukh
NirBhau
Nirvair
Akal Murut
Aajuni Sai Bhang
Gur prasad
Japu Aad
Sach Jugaad
Sach Haibhi
Sach Nanak
Hosi Bhi Sach.
-----
Sikhs are neither closer to Islam nor away from it having nothing in common with them. I am not sure which sikhs you are talking about but I have always maintained that Sikhs are a separate faith with emphasis on Saintliness and Soldierliness alike. NO OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD SAYS THIS.
Well.. I have observed that muslims in USA do give respect to Sikhs it could be because
1. Khalistan and the whole 1980s.
2. Sikhs ruled Pakistan from 1760 till 1849 and they see monuments daily.
3. Nalua and his soldiers conquered NWFP and they respect soldiers.
It is as simple as, As long as Sikhs feel threatened in India they will keep on asserting that they are separate the day they feel threatened from Muslims (as was happening prior to 1947) it will appear that they are more towards Hindus.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sbajwa, but how many sikhs also are ignorant about our hoary history and tradition? When did this happen and how did this happen? Was it a recent one?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has always been happening.
Guru Nanak born in 1469 refused to put on Janeu and revolted against Brahmins., he held discourses with Naths, Taps and Jogis all his life telling people about futility of Idol worship, Casteism, Sati and other ills of India. He lived among low-caste, outcaste and ate among them. He travelled with a Muslim mirasi named Mardana and a Shudra named Bhai Bala, who both sang Kirtan with him.
Second Guru Guru Angad dev ji who was a priest of a Durga Temple understood the message of Guru Nanak and became a Sikh, he created small centers of Sikhs all over Punjab.
Guru Amardas ji put the message of Guru Nanak into practice through an institution he called "Sangat and Pangat" i.e. "people and discipline" , he ordered all people (king, queens, low caste, muslims,high castes, etc) to come to him after eating together (langar practice was started to kick out the casteism). Brahmins and Khatris of Lahore complained to Akbar about "sangat and pangat" and anti-casteism, as well as anti-sutti and other things that Guru was doing, Akbar summoned Guru Amardas, Guru Amardas ji sent his disciple Bhai Lahina to Akbar who after listening to Lahina was astonished and personally went to see Guru Amardas at Goindwal.
So.. right then., when Brahmins and Khatris of Lahore complained to Akbar to finish Guru and his anti-hindu practices.. was the first contention.
Then Guru Ramdas created the city of Amritsar and his Son Guru Arjan Dev created Golden Temple as well as compiled the Adi Granth(which now we call Guru Granth). A Khatri named Chandu of Patiala was a high official in the court of Mughals and his wife saw Guru Arjan Dev's son Hargobind and wanted to marry her daughter to Hargobind. Guru refused the marriage offer after Sikhs of patiala complained that Chandu is against Sikhs. Then Chandu conspired with Mughals authorities to get Guru Arjan Dev arrested and matyred at Lahore when Guru Arjan Dev refused to convert.
After Guru Arjan Dev, then Guru Hargobind, Guru Har Kishen, Guru Har Rai, Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind singh all not only had to face Muslims but also Hindus (Ganghu Brahmin, Hill Chiefs, Dogras, Lakhpat Rai, Jaspat Rai, etc).
In Sikhs opinion the only true message in India is Khalsa (saint and soldier both) while people of India have always insist that Sikhs are nothing but "Militant Hindus". Sikhs say that CORRECT FORM OF A HINDU IS A KHALSA while Hindus call Sikhs a "distinct part of them employed for martial services". You pick and choose who is correct and who is wrong. The Khalsa has five symbols that remind him to be towards Satt, Santokh, Sabr, Daya and Dharm and away from Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar.
Satt = truth, Santokh=Contentment, Sabr=Patience, Daya=Compassion, dharm=Righteousness
Kaam=lust, krodh=anger,lobh=greed,moh=attachment to material stuff, hankaar=ego
and when Guru Gobind Singh gave Khalsa these five symbols he was putting the Guru Nanak's bani in practice as all other gurus have done from time to time.
Problem is that Hinduism does not have a defintion... who are Hindus and who are not.. you cannot define at least in India.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guru Nanak Says
IK OM Kar
Satt Naam
Karta Purukh
NirBhau
Nirvair
Akal Murut
Aajuni Sai Bhang
Gur prasad
Japu Aad
Sach Jugaad
Sach Haibhi
Sach Nanak
Hosi Bhi Sach.
-----
Sikhs are neither closer to Islam nor away from it having nothing in common with them. I am not sure which sikhs you are talking about but I have always maintained that Sikhs are a separate faith with emphasis on Saintliness and Soldierliness alike. NO OTHER RELIGION IN THE WORLD SAYS THIS.
Well.. I have observed that muslims in USA do give respect to Sikhs it could be because
1. Khalistan and the whole 1980s.
2. Sikhs ruled Pakistan from 1760 till 1849 and they see monuments daily.
3. Nalua and his soldiers conquered NWFP and they respect soldiers.
It is as simple as, As long as Sikhs feel threatened in India they will keep on asserting that they are separate the day they feel threatened from Muslims (as was happening prior to 1947) it will appear that they are more towards Hindus.
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sbajwa, but how many sikhs also are ignorant about our hoary history and tradition? When did this happen and how did this happen? Was it a recent one?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It has always been happening.
Guru Nanak born in 1469 refused to put on Janeu and revolted against Brahmins., he held discourses with Naths, Taps and Jogis all his life telling people about futility of Idol worship, Casteism, Sati and other ills of India. He lived among low-caste, outcaste and ate among them. He travelled with a Muslim mirasi named Mardana and a Shudra named Bhai Bala, who both sang Kirtan with him.
Second Guru Guru Angad dev ji who was a priest of a Durga Temple understood the message of Guru Nanak and became a Sikh, he created small centers of Sikhs all over Punjab.
Guru Amardas ji put the message of Guru Nanak into practice through an institution he called "Sangat and Pangat" i.e. "people and discipline" , he ordered all people (king, queens, low caste, muslims,high castes, etc) to come to him after eating together (langar practice was started to kick out the casteism). Brahmins and Khatris of Lahore complained to Akbar about "sangat and pangat" and anti-casteism, as well as anti-sutti and other things that Guru was doing, Akbar summoned Guru Amardas, Guru Amardas ji sent his disciple Bhai Lahina to Akbar who after listening to Lahina was astonished and personally went to see Guru Amardas at Goindwal.
So.. right then., when Brahmins and Khatris of Lahore complained to Akbar to finish Guru and his anti-hindu practices.. was the first contention.
Then Guru Ramdas created the city of Amritsar and his Son Guru Arjan Dev created Golden Temple as well as compiled the Adi Granth(which now we call Guru Granth). A Khatri named Chandu of Patiala was a high official in the court of Mughals and his wife saw Guru Arjan Dev's son Hargobind and wanted to marry her daughter to Hargobind. Guru refused the marriage offer after Sikhs of patiala complained that Chandu is against Sikhs. Then Chandu conspired with Mughals authorities to get Guru Arjan Dev arrested and matyred at Lahore when Guru Arjan Dev refused to convert.
After Guru Arjan Dev, then Guru Hargobind, Guru Har Kishen, Guru Har Rai, Guru Tegh Bahadur and Guru Gobind singh all not only had to face Muslims but also Hindus (Ganghu Brahmin, Hill Chiefs, Dogras, Lakhpat Rai, Jaspat Rai, etc).
In Sikhs opinion the only true message in India is Khalsa (saint and soldier both) while people of India have always insist that Sikhs are nothing but "Militant Hindus". Sikhs say that CORRECT FORM OF A HINDU IS A KHALSA while Hindus call Sikhs a "distinct part of them employed for martial services". You pick and choose who is correct and who is wrong. The Khalsa has five symbols that remind him to be towards Satt, Santokh, Sabr, Daya and Dharm and away from Kaam, Krodh, Lobh, Moh, Hankaar.
Satt = truth, Santokh=Contentment, Sabr=Patience, Daya=Compassion, dharm=Righteousness
Kaam=lust, krodh=anger,lobh=greed,moh=attachment to material stuff, hankaar=ego
and when Guru Gobind Singh gave Khalsa these five symbols he was putting the Guru Nanak's bani in practice as all other gurus have done from time to time.
Problem is that Hinduism does not have a defintion... who are Hindus and who are not.. you cannot define at least in India.