Jat History

06-27-2006, 08:18 AM

Bijayagadh Stone Pillar Inscription of Vishnuvardhana
________________________________________

Perfection has been attained! Four centuries of years, together with the twenty-eighth (year), (or in figures) 400 (ana) 20 (ana) 8, having been accomplished; on the fifteenth lunar day of the dark fortnight of (the month) PhÃ¢lguna;-on this (lunar day), (specified) as aforesaid: -

(Line 3.)-On the ceremony of the pundarÃ®ka-sacrifice (having been performed), this sacrificial post has been caused to be set .up by the <b>Varika,</b> the illustrious Vishnuvarhana whose royalty and name are well established,-who is the excellent son of YashÃ´vardhana; (and) the excellent sonâs son of YashÃ´rÃ¢ta; (and) the excellent son of the sonâs son of VyÃ¢ghrarÃ¢ta, - for the purpose of increasing (his) splendour, sacrifices, religion, welfare (in the other world), prosperity, fame, family, lineage, good fortune, and enjoyment.

(L. 4.)-Let there be success! Let there be increase! Let there be tranquillity! Let there be the condition of (his) having a son who shall live! Let there be the attainment of desires that are wished for! May there be faith and wealth!
________________________________________
From: Fleet, John F. Corpus Inscriptionum Indicarum: Inscriptions of the Early Guptas. Vol. III. Calcutta: Government of India, Central Publications Branch, 1888, 254.

07-01-2006, 02:34 PM

[quote=Ravi Chaudhary,Jun 27 2006, 08:18 AM]
Bijayagadh Stone Pillar Inscription of Vishnuvardhana
________________________________________

Thanks for the info provided here.But where is mentioned <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_cowboy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_cowboy.gif' /> that the king a was a jat.

07-01-2006, 02:40 PM

Dear Ravi Ji,

You r a sound person on jat history.Let me know something about Brijendra MahaRaja Jawahar Singh(JwaharMal) Bahadur of Bharatpore.His diffrences with his brother Ishwar Singh ,His Conquests,Battle of Maonda,His Death etc...

Rgds
First A HUMAN then An INDIAN then A HINDU then WHAT my CAST is, lastly MYSELF .

07-04-2006, 06:28 AM

IndiaFirst,Jul 1 2006, 02:34 PM Wrote:[quote=Ravi Chaudhary,Jun 27 2006, 08:18 AM]
Bijayagadh Stone Pillar Inscription of Vishnuvardhana
________________________________________

Thanks for the info provided here.But where is mentioned <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_cowboy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_cowboy.gif' /> that the king a was a jat.
[right][snapback]53067[/snapback][/right]

Virk is a JAT goth, what else would he be but a Jat!

We still find Virk Jats in that area!

07-04-2006, 07:25 AM

QUOTE(IndiaFirst @ Jul 1 2006, 02:40 PM)Dear Ravi Ji,

You r a sound person on jat history.Let me know something about Brijendra MahaRaja Jawahar Singh(JwaharMal) Bahadur of Bharatpore.His diffrences with his brother Ishwar Singh ,His Conquests,Battle of Maonda,His Death etc...

Rgds
First A HUMAN then An INDIAN then A HINDU then WHAT my CAST is, lastly MYSELF .
[right][snapback]53068[/snapback][/right]


I have not been spending much time on this( medieval) period, as there is plenty of material around.

Do you hae specific questions?

Would you like me to point you to specific books?

How is your Hindi? There is some good material in Hindi.

Best regards

Ravi

07-04-2006, 01:23 PM

QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Jul 4 2006, 07:25 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IndiaFirst @ Jul 1 2006, 02:40 PM)Dear Ravi Ji,

You r a sound person on jat history.Let me know something about Brijendra MahaRaja Jawahar Singh(JwaharMal) Bahadur of Bharatpore.His diffrences with his brother Ishwar Singh ,His Conquests,Battle of Maonda,His Death etc...

Rgds
First A HUMAN then An INDIAN then A HINDU then WHAT my CAST is, lastly MYSELF .
[right][snapback]53068[/snapback][/right]


I have not been spending much time on this( medieval) period, as there is plenty of material around.

Do you hae specific questions?

Would you like me to point you to specific books?

How is your Hindi? There is some good material in Hindi.

Best regards

Ravi
[right][snapback]53147[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Ravi,

I learnt from some books that Maharajah Jwaharmal was a struggle thru his entire life .But he fled from the field in battle of maunda with Shaikhawats leaving behind his <i>Nishan,Dhwaj,Artillery & Nagara</i>.After this war he inclined toward kuchesar near Gardh Mukteshar in UP.Is is true..

My Hindi is not good <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/guitar.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='guitar.gif' />

Rgds
First A HUMAN then An INDIAN then A HINDU then WHAT my CAST is, lastly MYSELF .

07-06-2006, 08:05 AM

India first

for a broad narrative see the extract below from the book: ;.History of the Jats' by R S Joon

It is online in the files section.

Desraj's book in hindi is also online.

You need membership to access these books.

Both are quite good.

************************************

Extract:from Chapter 10.

SAWAI MAHARAJA JAWAHAR SINGH-BHARAT INDRA

Maharaja Jawahar Singh was extravagant, willful, ambitious and energetic. He could never get on well with his father. Suraj Mal always felt that he would be responsible for bringing about the end of the Jat Kingdom. .That is why he wanted his younger son Nahar Singh to be his successor. This created a big problem for all his nobles. At the time of Raja Suraj Mal's death Jawahar Singh was in Farukhnagar.

Raja Suraj Mal's nobles placed Nahar Singh on the throne. On hearing this news Jawahar Singh lost his temper and sent a letter to Bharatpur expressing how painful it was that while the dead body of his father Suraj Mal was restless for his head, his sons were quarrelling among themselves for the throne. Jawahar Singh announced that he would soon return to Bharatpur and would contend for the throne only after taking revenge for his fathers head.

By the time he reached Bharatpur, the news had spread that Jawahar Singh took shelter with the Raja of Karauli. Bal Ram brother in-law of Raja Suraj Mal the commander of Bharatpur forces, closed the gates of Bharatpur fort and prepared for war against Jawahar Singh. Ultimately, however, he accepted Jawahar Singh's claim to the throne.

In October 1764, Jawahar Singh marched against Delhi with 100 guns 60,000 soldiers of his own, 25,000 Maratha soldiers of Holkar and 15,000 Sikh soldiers.

After a siege of several months Najibuddin appealed for peace. But Jawahar Singh was determined to take revenge for his father, by severing the head of Najibuddaulah. After several days, some Rohilla leaders came to the camp of Jawahar Singh with Zubita Khan who sought the intervention of Maharaja Holkar.

Holkar tried to persuade Jawahar Singh to make peace on the condition that the hand of a Moghul Princess would be given to him in marriage and the whole expenditure for war would be paid by Najibuddaulah.

Jawahar Singh accepted this offer and returned to , Bharatpur.

In February 1765 a treaty was signed on payment of Rs. 60 Lakhs as war indemnity and the hand of & Moghul Princess, who was later married to a Frenchman, Captain Samru. In this treaty Holkar had accepted a bribe from Najibuddaulah and acted treacherously towards Jawahar Singh.

When these things became known to Jawahar Singh relations between him and Holkar became strained.

Maharaja Sawai Jawahar Singh ascended the throne of Bharatpur with the title of Bharat Indra.

He punished all those courtiers who had opposed his succession to the throne. Nahar Singh fought a war against him with the help of Karauli and the Marathas, but was defeated. Jawahar Singh helped the Raja of Dholpur to be independent of the Marathas. He also made alliances with the East India company against the Maratha Leader, Raghunath Rao. He had his maternal uncle Balram murdered. Raja Suraj Mal had been maintaining superficially friendly relations with Raja Madho Singh of Jaipur, inspite of his having a born foe of the Bharatpur 'Raj'.

Jawahar Singh, did not approve of it. After the death of Nahar Singh, his wife and his children were called back by Jawahar Singh from Jaipur to Bharatpur, but Madho Singh refused to send them.

In reply, Jawahar Singh gave shelter to Pratap Singh, a rebel Sardar of
Jaipur, and demanded Pargana Kama of Jaipur which was adjacent to Bharatpur. He further annoyed Madho Singh by adopting the title of Sawai, which was the title adopted by Madho Singh's father, Raja Jai Singh only

THE PUSHKAR EPISODE

Kishori, wife of Suraj Mal, who had adopted Jawahar Singh, was adept at political intrigues. She was pained to see that Jawahar Singh was not adopting a favourable policy towards the members of the family and the nobles.

She knew that he could be controlled only by keeping him engaged in warfare. She also knew that the Rajputs could never tolerate this abrupt rise of Jat rule and would always resist the latter's efforts to gain power. The solution for both the problems lay in war.

Kishori epressed her desire to her proud son that she wanted to go for a sacred bath at Pushkar. Jawahar Singh pointed out that Pushkar was situated in the territory of his eternal and deadly foe, Raja Madho Singh, who would not tolerate her arrival at Pushkar with a large retinue, and advised her that if at all she was keen to go for
Pushkar bath, she would go with only a few followers and Rupa Ram the Purohit.

The Rani retorted by saying that she was the mother of Jawahar Singh, and the Rani of Suraj Mal and taking a bath like Marwari women would hurt her pride, and that she would like to take her bath along with the Rajput Ranis there.

She would also like to give away alms surpassing the Rajput Ranis. She said, she did not understand why the Jats should be afraid of the Rajputs any longer. Jawahar Singh knew well that this would lead to warfare and bloodshed.

Jawahar Singh made the big mistake of leaving Pratap Singh the rebel of Jaipur, for the defence of Bharatpur. He considered Partap Singh to be a reliable man, but in this he was deceived.

Jawahar Singh marched to Pushkar with 60,000 Cavalry, 1 lakh Infantry and 200 guns. With fluttering banners and beating drums they entered Jaipur territory and set up a impressive camp in the sandy plains of Pushkar.

Rani Kishori was weighed in gold which was given in charity. The other Ranis who had come on this occasion felt humiliated because they were not in a position to match the charity of Rani Kishori. The Rajput vanity was hurt.

Pratap Singh, who was left as the guardian of Bharatpur in the absence of Jawahar Singh, also came to know of this. He left Bharatpur undefended, and joined the camp of Madho Singh. Pratap Singh instigated Madho Singh against Jawahar Singh. All the Rajput rulers assembled at Pushkar and held a conference in which no Jat rulers were invited. Raja Madho Singh said in this conference that the Jat ruler had injured the vanity of all the Rajputs. It was here that a witty Marwari, Raja Vijay Singh pointed out that after all the Jats were also Hindus and if they donated liberally on this auspicious occasion according to their financial position, it must not be taken as humiliation by Rajputs. Madho Singh, however, rejected this advice and appealed for war. The decision of this conference soon reached Jawahar Singh. He was expecting it.

Madho Singh laid on ambush in a valley to intercept Jawahar Singh on his return. Jawahar Singh had anticipated this and took the alternative route via Turna Wati, which was a bottle-neck surrounded by hills.

The column of troops with cavalry and artillery was marching under the leadership of Captain Samru.

The palanquins of te Ranis were escorted by Jawahar Singh in the
rear of the column. All of a sudden they were attacked by Rajputs from three sides It was a fierce battle, in which the Rajputs suffered great losses. In the battle, it was found that only 11 tender aged members were left in the family of Raja _Madho Singh. The rest lost their lives.

It is said that 25,000 casualties occurred in this battle. Jawahar Singh reached Bharatpur. Both of Jats and Rajputs claimed themselves victorious in this battle, but apparently the loss did not have not much of a repercussion on the strength of Jats, whereas Madho Singh had to suffer such a severe blow that his power never recovered.

Later Jawahar Singh was killed by some unknown person while he was out on hunting.

***********
The above account is broadly correct.

Their is more material available, and I will provide it, as time allows. The interplay and relationships between the various powers, Jaipur, Jodhpur, Bharatpur, the Mahrattas is quite complex.

Best regards

Ravi

07-28-2006, 12:37 AM

now for some aqueous humorousus.

JAT now has the Uncyclopedia WIKI also !!!!!!!!!!!!! This be momentous step forward for Jat man in humanius leapius Jat manikindius says confucious.

Jat

Enjoy.

Thankses you,

Yours kindredly,

<i>Mogleus Phoneyius</i>

28th Juliuses, two thousand sixeth yearusius, anno dominius.

07-28-2006, 03:40 AM

Ravi,we discuss a couple of months earlier about romanian -jat conection.
I know about a letter from dacian king Decebal to the parthian king of that time in which Decebal ask for help against roman.The intersting in that letter is that Decebal name the parthian king cousent(son of the father brother) .So seem a relation betwin 2 relatives .
The name of dacian tribe dak came from the word wolf,also word virk exist in romanian and mean simply wolf.
That documents are now in Iran.Can you give more details about this?
And what is yor opinion of turkish historians that say not whitout arguments that sarmatians and alans was in fact turkish speakers not IE, sanskrite or iranian speakers.
Thanks.

08-03-2006, 03:38 AM

From Wikipedia, I read âThe Tomar, Tanwar,were a clan who populated northern India. The clan Tomar is found among the Jats and Rajputs. 95 % of all of them are Jats. A small percentage in Rajastan identify themsleves as Rajputs. They are found spread from Punjab, to Haryana, to Western Uttar Pradesh, to Eastern Rajastan to Northern Madhya Pradesh.
In the 8th century, the Jat Tomars established a state in present day Haryana, founding the city of Dhiliki (later Delhi) in 736.
Some Tomars left the Delhi area and settled in Panipat region in modern Haryana and also in modern Uttar Pradesh.
The Tomars were replaced by Chauhans in 1162 as the rulers of Delhi. The Chauhans were defeated by the Muhammad Ghori and the Sultans of Delhi at the end of the 12th century. There is some discrepancy here as a Tomar is described to be in power in Delhi in 1192 CE.â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomara
However, a Tomar (and a large number of followers) is recorded in Madagascar history as âimmigratingâ around 1300 CE. The native language in Madagascar is an Austro-Polynesian language closely related to Javanese language (Java) and Manjaan (Kalimantan), suggesting that Tomar and his large followers may have come from Indonesia also.
Does anyone know of a large movement of Tomar around 1200-1300 CE towards Indonesia or Madagascar?

08-03-2006, 12:43 PM

This is what we call standard Indian History narrations.

Chohans never took Delhi in a bloody conflict.Infact if we had these chouhans in delhi than how come Anangpal tomar might have ruled Delhi when Someswar the father of Pthiviraj was ruling in Ajmer as his vassal .
As per standard version of Indian History some five chohan kings ruled delhi between 1162 to Anangpal in rotate the chair game each ruling for five or four years till prthviraj was given kingdom by tomar king anangpal (recorded even by chanderbardayi)reported jat in local historical records.
Doesn't it sound amusing.

I am still to come across a sound evidence that lead indian historian to think that chohans got delhi in in 1162 AD.

08-22-2006, 11:46 PM

To keep some balance, you may as well include the assistance the 'Rajputs' gave to the Muslims in their conquest of Bharatvarsha.

There are some difficulties with some of statements you make.

e.g your cliam: 'The 'Mori' of Chittor are 'Rajputs' in the 7th century CE.'

Do you know the earlier name of Chittor ?

The term 'Rajput' is unknown until the 11th century or so.

Perhaps you could rexamine your conclusions.

Ravi Chaudhary

08-23-2006, 01:13 AM

QUOTE(ramana @ Aug 23 2006, 12:00 AM)Ravi, why dont you post what you know? Thanks, ramana
[right][snapback]56061[/snapback][/right]


Digvijay is exploring.

Best point him towards the information, and let him digest it.

A search of the archives may not be unproductive

Ravi Cahudhary

08-23-2006, 09:56 PM

QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Aug 22 2006, 11:46 PM)To keep some balance, you may as well include the assistance the 'Rajputs' gave to the Muslims in their conquest ofÂ Bharatvarsha.

There are someÂ difficulties with some of statements you make.

e.gÂ your cliam: 'The 'Mori' of Chittor areÂ 'Rajputs' in the 7th century CE.'Â

Do you know the earlier name of Chittor ?

The term 'Rajput' is unknown until the 11th century or so.

Perhaps you could rexamine your conclusions.

Ravi Chaudhary
[right][snapback]56057[/snapback][/right]

Ravi,
Rajputs serving the mughals is described under the Maharana Pratap subsection.
Are you saying the Mori of Chittor were not rajputs? Please refer to Tod if you have any
doubt. Mori is a shakha of Parmar rajputs.

Term rajput war first used by Harshvardhana, who was crowned as "Rajputra Shiladitya".
BanaBhatta's Harscharita which was written in 7th century A.D records this. This was before
there was a single Muslim on the planet. (Read R.C. Majumdar history text. Section on
Harshavardhana). I have heard some Jats say harsha was a Jat. So my take is I would
rather trust BanaBhatta then modern Jats with their claims.

What do you mean by re-examine the conclusions?

-Digvijay

08-24-2006, 02:21 AM

QUOTE(digvijay @ Aug 23 2006, 09:56 PM)Â Â What do you mean by re-examine the conclusions?

-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56116[/snapback][/right]


You do need to reexamine your conclusions. To do that you will have to read up on the various versions of history that are there.

I am not interested in a rajput war as you are having with Mr, Harsana of the Gujars in the All Empires group.

I am going to suggest you go through the archives of the yahoo Jathistory group before you continue this discussion
.
Search for Rajput, Bal Baliyan, Gehlaut, Maur, Mori ,Jodhpur, Amber, Jaipur, Harshvardhan, Timur, Akbar, Sarv Khap etc.

There are some excellent online books in the files section. Joon, Desraj( if you can read Hindi)

For the files section you need membership and a yahoo ID.

That is only a click away
[Edited- admin
No Reference to your yahoo group]

After you finish, you will have gained some more knowledge than you possess now.

You may, just may, change your mind and stop writing things like:â the jats lived in rajput villages and start to copy, take on rajput Goth( Gotra) names.â

Briefly:
The average Rajput is a brave fellow and a genuine patriot. Even in the wars between the rajput- Muslim Mughal combine and the Jats of the Braj (Agra, Mathura) the average Rajput agriculturist around Braj sided with the Jats and not with his kinsmen the rajputs of Jaipur, or Handothi.

I will be posting an article on that separately.

At a more advanced level:

The Rajput syndrome is one that only comes into light with the ascendancy of Islam in this country. It gets glorified by the British,( Todd) and later by Hindu Historians.

Th phenomena fitted well into the elusive Kshatriya sought by the castiest Hindu Historians, looking for a glorified past.

All that was significant was thus assigned to the Rajput class. Today our history books teach us just that.

<b>1. Harshvardhan
</b>
Bana's harsh Charita is online in the yahoo Jathistory section in the files section. You are welcome to read it for yourself.

Harshvardhan, is described as Rajyaputra, son of a king, that is what he was, his father was king before him.

That does not make him a Rajput. Equally all rajputs cannot be sons of âA king.â, there must be another explanation.

His goth (clan) is thought to be Virk by some authors- Dahiya, Desraj, who see him descended form the Virk Jats of Mandsor, and Bains by others, Ahlawat and Cunningham, who suggest his grandfather came to Thaneswar( modern Haryana) from the Punjab.

Both Virk and Bains are Jat Goths.

According to the Jat records of the Jat Haryana Sarvkhap,( republic) Harshvardhan was crowned Raja by the Sarvkhap at a meeting of all the Khaps ( republics) in Chaitya (March - April) VS 606. Harsh is credited with uniting the Jat Khaps from Multan to Mandsor, and forming the Sarv Khap itself.

They were the source of his power. He ruled with their consent.

There is no Rajput power/state in Western UP or Haryana.

2. Mor(i) rulers of Chittor ( Jattaur)

You claim that Mori rulers of Chittor were rajputs in 700 CE.

At that time there was no term like Rajput existed.

The older name of Chittor was Jattaur, named after the Jats.

The Mor (i) clan was a branch of the ancient Maur, Mor, Maurya. Another branch was in power in the Sind region and fought with Quasim. Another branch is found n the Konkan region.

They followed a mix of Buddhism, Jainism, and Shaivism. They are abused in Hindu literature as Shudra, so Rajputs they cannot be.

See also :

ON THE GEHLAUT, GUHILAWAT, MUNDTOR GEHLAWAT GOTRAS-
( BRANCHES OF THE BAL/BALIYAN CLAN.)
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]

<b>2. Rajput assistance to Muslims:
</b>
This is not restricted to one Rajput leader joining Babulâs side. ,as you would have believe.

Again do read your history and see what service the Rajput leaders of the princely houses of Rajastan, Kangra etc gave to the Muslims. Do not be surprised if you find they acted as the Military subcontractors for the Muslims. You also need to examine the histories of Jaipur, Jodhpur, Shekavati and the other Rajput Jagirs, and see how they were formed and with whose assistance they managed to continue in existence.

This assistance could not have been given without the support and advice of their Hindu priestly mantris, which is a subject all run away from.

The house of Mewar is the only one that stood out like a beacon, and paid the price.

[ Today their descendants may deny it, but they too did not call themselves Rajputs until the 16th century. They knew themselves as Jats. (Humayunâs memoirs)]

This house to its credit rejected the move by the houses of Jodhpur, Jaipur, Bikaner etc in 1947 to join Pakistan.

See:
Re: Role Jats in NW India- part 4 Rajputs opt for Pakistan
[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]

08-24-2006, 01:13 PM

QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Aug 24 2006, 02:21 AM)
This assistance could not have been given without the support and advice of their Hindu priestly mantris, which is a subject all run away from.

The house of Mewar is the only one that stood out like a beacon, and paid the price.Â

[ Today their descendants may deny it, but they too did not call themselves Rajputs until the 16th century. They knew themselves as Jats. (Humayunâs memoirs)]

[edited - admin
provide reference to historical books , not to your yahoo group and messages]
[right][snapback]56128[/snapback][/right]


Ravi,
Let us take things one by one:
Baburnama, which preceedes Humayun, states Sanga was a rajput and also mentions Maharawal of Udaipur as a rajput. So you are plain wrong.

-Digvijay

08-24-2006, 07:32 PM

QUOTE(digvijay @ Aug 24 2006, 01:13 PM)Â Â Let us take things one by one:
-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56143[/snapback][/right]


In taking things one by one, do some reading first.
Have you studied the material I suggested.
If you refuse to look at it, and reflect upon it,
all you will end doing is promoting propaganda,
and you will end up is the same situation you in on the All empires Group

08-25-2006, 12:06 AM

Poster Dingvijay has referred to Rana sanga and the " memoirs of Babur" the baburnama

Fortunately for students of History, a number of thes translations are now online.

Though they present a one sided view, they are still useful as raw material, for they can be compared and corraborated with other accounts.

Indian History text books have relied too much , exclsuvely on these accounts..

From a raw material point of view, I have taken certain extracts from the memoirs of Babur:

For students of history , a number of the translations of the Persian manuscripts are now online at the Packhum site.

MEMOIRS OF
ZEHÄªR-ED-DÄªN MUHAMMED BÄBUR
EMPEROR OF HINDUSTAN

WRITTEN BY HIMSELF, IN THE CHAGHATÄI TÅªRKI
AND TRANSLATED BY
JOHN LEYDEN, ESQ., M.D.
AND
WILLIAM ERSKINE, ESQ. ( circa 1813)
THE MEMOIRS OF BÄBUR

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...01052&ct=0

The other translation is by A S Beveridge , done in 1921.

The accounts are not significantly different.

Some extracts:

THE MEMOIRS OF BÄBUR
http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...01052&ct=0

EVENTS OF THE YEAR 933
http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=56

1. :Although RÄna Sanka,* the Pagan, when I was in KÄbul, had sent me an ambassador with professions of attachment, and had arranged with me, that, if I would march from that quarter into the vicinity of Delhi, he would march from the other side upon Agra; yet, when I defeated IbrahÄ«m, and took Delhi and Agra, the Pagan, during all my operations, did not make a single movement. After some time, he advanced and laid siege to KandÄrâ

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=54

2. âHaving appointed these armies to proceed in execution of their various objects, I sent for the TÅ«rki nobles and those of Hind, and held a consultation. I stated to them that the rebellious lords in the east, NÄsir Khan LohÄni, MaarÅ«f FermÅ«li, and their adherents, had passed the Ganges, to the number of forty or fifty thousand men, had occupied Kanauj, and advanced and encamped two or three marches on this side of it; that the Pagan RÄna Sanka had taken KandÄr, and was in a state of open disobedience and revolt; that the rainy season was now nearly over; that it seemed expedient and necessary to march against either the rebels or the pagans; that it would be an easy matter to reduce the neighbouring forts after getting rid of these formidable enemies; that then they would cost no trouble; that RÄna Sanka was not, upon the whole, a very formidable enemy. Resolution
to march
against the
Afghans in
the east.
The com-
mand given
to HumÄiÅ«n, All unanimously answered, that RÄna Sanka was not only far off , but that it was not even plain that it was in his power to come near us;â

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=54

3 . â Hassan Khan, He is joined
by Hassan
Khan of
Alwar. had ostentatiously maintained a correspondence, and constantly asked back his son. Many imagined, that if I gratified Hassan Khan by sending his son to him, he would be extremely sensible of the obligation, and exert himself actively in my service.* I therefore invested his son, NÄhir Khan, with a dress of honour, and on his entering into an engagement,* sent him back to his father*; but that wretch, as soon as he had ascertained that his son was released, and before the young man had reached him, totally forgetful of the obligation conferred on him,* marched out of Alwar,* and went to join RÄna Sanka.â

At this station we received information that RÄna Sanka had pushed on with all his army nearly as far as BiÄna. The party that had been sent out in advance were not able to reach the fort, nor even to communicate with it. The garrison of BiÄna had advanced too far from the fort, and with too little caution, and the enemy having unexpectedly fallen upon them in great force, completely routed them. Sanger Khan JanjÅ«heh fell on this occasion. When the affair began, Kitteh Beg came galloping up without his armour, and joined in the action. He had dismounted a pagan, and was in the act of laying hold of him, when the Hindu, snatching a sword from a servant of Kitteh Beg, struck the Beg on the shoulder, and wounded him so severely that he was not able to come into the field during the rest of the war against RÄna Sanka

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=58

4. On Monday, the 9th of the first JumÄda, I began my march to the holy war against the heathen. Having passed the suburbs, I encamped on the plain, where I halted three or four days, to collect the army and communicate the necessary instructions. As I did not place great reliance on the men of HindustÄn, I employed their AmÄ«rs in making desultory excursions in different directions. Älim Khan was directed to proceed with a light force to GwÄliÄr, to carry assistance to RahÄ«mdÄd, while I appointed Makan, KÄsim Sambali, HamÄ«d with his brothers, and Muhammed ZeitÅ«n, to proceed with a light-armed party towards Sambal.
Defeat of
the detach-
ment.
At this station we received information that RÄna Sanka had pushed on with all his army nearly as far as BiÄna. The party that had been sent out in advance were not able to reach the fort, nor even to communicate with it. The garrison of BiÄna had advanced too far from the fort, and with too little caution, and the enemy having unexpectedly fallen upon them in great force, completely routed them.
http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=58

5. Size of Rana Sangaâs army. Note the muslims as part of his army

s, for instance, SilÄhed-dÄ«n* possessed* thirty thousand horse; RÄwal Åªdai Sing NÄgari,* ten* thousand horse; Medini Rai, ten* thousand; Hassan Khan MewÄti, twelve thousand horse; BÄrmal Äªdari, four thousand horse; Narpat HÄda,* seven thousand; Sattervi Kachi, six thousand; Dharm Deo, four thousand; Narsing Deo,* four thousand horse; MahmÅ«d Khan, the son of Sultan Sikander, though he possessed no country nor perganna, yet had gathered about him ten thousand horse, who adhered to him in the hopes that he might succeed in establishing his pretensions; insomuch, that the total number of all these wretches, who were separated from the fields of salvation and bliss, if an estimate be formed from the capacity of their dominions and pergannas, was two hundred and one thousand.

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=62

5. Accounts with names of leaders who died- Hassan Khan, Udai sing Rawal of Udaipur, Chanderbhan Chuhan,

â Many were slain, and fell in the battle, and some giving up their lives for lost, turned to the desert of ruin, and became the food of crows and kites; and hillocks were formed of the slain, and towers raised of their heads. Hassan Khan MewÄti was enrolled in the band of the dead by a matchlock shot, and in like manner many of these bewildered and misled rebels, the leaders of that army, were struck by arrows or musket-shot, and closed their lives; of the number, RÄwal Udai Sing, before named,* who was Prince (Wali) of the country of UdaipÅ«r, and had twelve thousand horse; and Rai ChanderbhÄn ChuhÄn, who had four thousand horse,* and MÄnikchand ChuhÄn, and Dilpat Rai, who were masters of four thousand horse, and GangÅ«, and Karm Sing, and Rao Bikersi,* who had three thousand horse, and a number of others, who each were leaders of great clans, men of high rank and pride, measured the road to Hell, and, from this house of clay, were transferred to the Pit of Perdition. The road from the field of battle was filled like hell, with the wounded who died by the way; and the lowest hell was rendered populous, in consequence of the numbers of infidels who had delivered up their lives to the angels* of hell. On whatever side of the armies of IslÄm a person went, on every hand he found men of distinction lying slain; and the illustrious camp, wherever it has moved after the fugitives, could nowhere find a spot in which to plant a foot, in consequence of the number of distinguished men lying mangled.*â

All the Hindus were scattered and confounded,*
With stones,* like the warriors of the elephant.
Many hills of their bodies were seen,
And from each hill flowed a rivulet of running blood.
From the dread of the arrows of the ranks full of grandeur,
They were flying and running*
to every field and hill.

Arabic.âThey go backwards in flight. And the event happened as it had been ordained of Fate. And now the praise be to God, who is All-hearing and All-wise; and except from whom there is no help, for he is great and March
1527. powerful.* * Written in the month of the latter JumÄda, in the year 933.*

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=64

I have checked this against Beveridge's translation, and the accounts are practically the same, word for word.

A couple of items stand out

1) The agreement between Rana Sanga and Babur, on which Sanga is said to have gone back on. This agreement is also referred to by other Historians.

2) This is not a Hindu army fighting an Islamic one. Sanga has plenty of Muslims in his forces.

3) Perhaps I have missed it but nowhere can I see is the term 'rajput' used to describe him! He is descibed as Pagan.

Ravi Chaudhary

08-25-2006, 02:04 AM

QUOTE(digvijay @ Aug 25 2006, 01:28 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Aug 25 2006, 12:06 AM)Poster Dingvijay has referred to Rana sanga and the " memoirs of Babur" the baburnama

3)Â Perhaps I have missed it but nowhereÂ can I see is the term 'rajput' used to describe him! He is descibed as Pagan.

Ravi Chaudhary
[right][snapback]56166[/snapback][/right]


http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=34

"The Rajput Princes, from Mewat to Udaipur, had joined in a confederacy, of which Rana Sanka, the Prince of Udaipur, was at the head."

-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56180[/snapback][/right]

</div>

*****************
Viren,

I will reply to your post separately.

I agree some guidlines are required. I am perfectly happy to follow group guidelines.
I must confess the need for some clarity.

Now, This is the kind of post I object to:

Poster Digvijay is quoting from a commentary, by a later British author, translator, in 1813, and not from the original text.

The original text has to agree with what he wishes to say.

The original text , and I have give the extract as best as I could, do not give the caste of the members of the confedracy of ' Rana sanga'

Accuracy is important in the study of History, otherwise we have just have propaganda!

Now If I missed seeing the term Rajput in the original text , I will be happy to stand corrected.

Digvijay's post is from:

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=34

SUPPLEMENT
CONTAINING
AN ABRIDGED VIEW OF BÄBURâS TRANSACTIONS
FROM A.H. 926 TO A.H. 932.

the above is from the table of contents below:

Supplement Containing an Abridged View of BÄburâs Transactions from A.H. 926 to A.H. 932 147

http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...01052&ct=0

CONTENTS TO VOL. II
PAGE
TITLE
THE MEMOIRS OF BÄBUR 1
Events of the Year A.H. 912 1
Events of the Year 913 36
Events of the Year 914 60
Supplement Containing an Abridged Account of BÄburâs Transactions from the Beginning of A.H. 914 to the Beginning of A.H. 925 62
Events of the Year 925 79
The Occurrences of 926 141
Supplement Containing an Abridged View of BÄburâs Transactions from A.H. 926 to A.H. 932 147
Events of the Year 932 155
Events of the Year 933 262
The FirmÄn of ZehÄ«reddÄ«n Muhammed BÄbur 281
The FirmÄn of ZehÄ«reddÄ«n Muhammed BÄbur GhÄzi (Victorious over the Heathen) 289
Events of the Year 934 318
Events of the Year 935 333
Copy of the Letter sent to HumÄiÅ«n 351
Transactions of the Year 936 420
Concluding Supplement to BÄburâs Memoirs 421
APPENDICES
A. An Account of BÄburâs deliverance from imÂminent danger at KirmÄn 433
B. HindÄlâs adoption 435
C. A plain account of the battle of KÄnwÄha 436
D. An account of HumÄyÅ«nâs illness and of BÄburâs self-devotion 440
E. Biographies of Erskine and Leyden 443
INDEX 449
MAP

Unfortunately, and this perhaps is the critical point I am trying to make:

When these inaccuracies enter our history text books, they get compounded over time,and correcting them is a real nuisance and an uphill task.

We have a similar problem with Mahmnud of Ghazni's supposed 17th expedition, which is in all our history books, except that it probably never occured in the original texts, no such expedition is mentionedby his official Court historian, but another Muslim Chronicler does mention it in a manuscript which is dated 500 years after the event.
(on a lighter note - I would have provided the link, but until we have some agreed guidlines, I will not do so)

Our Indian historians do tend to take the weaker story as gospel truth, but ignore the primary original evidence.

Please forgive the digression.

Ravi Chaudhary

08-25-2006, 09:02 AM

QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Aug 25 2006, 02:04 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(digvijay @ Aug 25 2006, 01:28 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ravi Chaudhary @ Aug 25 2006, 12:06 AM)Poster Dingvijay has referred to Rana sanga and the " memoirs of Babur" the baburnama

3)Â Perhaps I have missed it but nowhereÂ can I see is the term 'rajput' used to describe him! He is descibed as Pagan.

Ravi Chaudhary
[right][snapback]56166[/snapback][/right]


http://persian.packhum.org/persian/pf?fi...1052&ct=34

"The Rajput Princes, from Mewat to Udaipur, had joined in a confederacy, of which Rana Sanka, the Prince of Udaipur, was at the head."

-Digvijay
[right][snapback]56180[/snapback][/right]

</div>

*****************
Viren,

I will reply to your post separately.

..........(snipped)
Ravi Chaudhary
[right][snapback]56181[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Ravi,
You can only get your frivolous arguments be accepted by jats perhaps. I asked you about the Hada rajputs mentioned in Babur nama. Do you have a reply?

-Digvijay

Login




Remember me Lost Password?