I have a suspicion, can someone confirm

Indian xtians who migrate to the west, are actually treated as ****s and made unwelcome in white churches ?

It'll be interesting to see if the sexists comments made by Olberman, Mathhew, and all other TV blabbermouths against Hillary will repeated against Palin.
They better walk on eggshell or they'll be will be taken to woodshed if they try what they did earlier in the year.

Kosi may wipe out 2 districts in Bihar
26 Aug, 2008, 0416 hrs IST,Ashok K Mishra, ET Bureau

BIHAR’s sorrow, the Kosi, has changed its course near Kusaha village in Nepal for the first time in the last 50 years after breaching the East Kosi afflux embankment threatening millions of lives. Over 12 lakh people are trapped between the old and the new streams of the river leading to plans for unprecendented evacuation effort in the northern part of the state.

Chief minister Nitish Kumar has appealed to the people of the twin districts of Madhepura and Supaul, that may be wiped off the map, to abandon houses and find shelter in relief camps.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/P...how/3405389.cms

AoA!! Praise the holy lord
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sonia (aka Antonia) Maino and her sycophants suffered a massive defeat when a New Jersey court threw out the lawsuit brought upon those who placed a full-page advertisement in the New York Times against Sonia Maino. Congratulations to the victors!<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--emo&:whistle--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/whistle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='whistle.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Details to come. Others can add.

From Hindu, 15 Aug., 2008
Link:

http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/15/stories/...620500.htm


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Va. Ve. Su. Iyer, the face of Tiruchi in the struggle for freedom


— Photo: R. Ashok

In Memory: Va. Ve. Su. Iyer memorial in Tiruchi.

Tiruchi district’s share in India’s freedom struggle was personified by Va. Ve. Su. Iyer, the leader who attracted international attention, and the ‘never say die’ attitude of several other inspiring leaders like T. S. S. Rajan, N. Halasyam, P. Rathinavelu Thevar, T. S. Arunachalam, T. V. Swaminatha Sastri, Nana Saheb, P. Sanglia Pillai and Ladapuram Guruswamy.

They stood in the forefront of freedom struggle giving it tough to the British regime. A staunch nationalist, revolutionary, scholar and above all a litterateur, Va. Ve. Su. Iyer (Varahaneri Venkatesa Subrahmanya Iyer) was Born on April 2, 1881 in Varahaneri in Tiruchi city. Selfless and dedicated, he joined hands with those great patriots Maha Kavi Bharathiyar and Aravinder of Puducherry in the freedom struggle and helped to spread patriotic fervour among people.

He initially studied and practiced law. Later, he went to practice in Rangoon (now Yangoon) and from there to London, where he qualified as a barrister. Late Iyer knew many languages including Tamil, English, Sanskrit, Latin and French.

<b>While in England, he met Gandhiji for the first time and spoke to him vehemently about the revolutionary creed as the only means of winning Independence for the country. </b>

<b>While undergoing Barrister course in London, late Iyer developed close contacts with Vinayak Damodar Savarkar, a revolutionary, who was sentenced to 50 years of imprisonment by the British regime and lodged in the cellular jail in Andaman Islands. </b>

Revolutionary activities of the time in London, Mumbai, Pune and Nasik were traced back to the guidance of Veer Savarkar in London. Finally Veer Savarkar with his associates like Va. Ve. Su. Iyer were arrested and sent back to India for trial in 1910 by a ship. <b>Savarkar and his friends like Va. Ve. Su. Iyer attempted a brave escape from the ship at Marseilles Port in France in 1910. </b>This heroic act became a glorious and legendary chapter in the history of our freedom movement.

Unfortunately for Savarkar, the French Police on Guard captured him and handed him over to the British Authorities.<b> Va. Ve. Su. Iyer managed to swim across the English Channel to elude the British police. Iyer, on his return to India, set up a Gurukula at Chernamahadevi in Tirunelveli district, designed to prepare our young men in the spirit of hoary ancient culture of India, to become true servants of their motherland.</b>

<b>He arrived in Puducherry in 1916 and imparted training to youths in using firearms and preached violence and prescribed political assassination as a means to national freedom. He made special arrangements for the revolutionary activities. He remained in Puducherry till 1920 and then went to Chennai where he continued his nationalistic activities. </b>

Late Iyer edited ‘Desapakthan’ for some time and later started a Tamil literary magazine ‘Bala Bharathi’. He also rendered translation of Thirukkural and Kamba Ramayanam into English. <b>He died at the age of 44 on June 3, 1925.</b>

The State Government, as a mark of respect to this great revolutionary, constructed a memorial at Saraganeri Agraharam in Tiruchi city in 1999. His life history and photographs are displayed and a library is also functioning here.

SYED MUTHAHAR SAQAF

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

What an eventful life!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080808/ap_on_...s/india_unfazed

Fake news report. - False information based on few people

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Unfazed by bombings, India has an option: peace

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG, Associated Press Writer Fri Aug 8, 2:37 PM ET

NEW DELHI - With a deadly attack on its embassy in Afghanistan, Pakistani troops clashing with its soldiers in disputed Kashmir and Islamic militants bombing its cities, India has in recent months seemed a country under siege.
Just don't ask it to live like one.

Its ancient markets are as packed as ever. Its bright new malls bustle as never before. And few talk of avenging attacks that just a few years ago would likely have brought South Asia's nuclear-armed rivals to the brink of war.

It's a turn-the-other-cheek attitude that is tempting to see as weakness, and some here say it reflects the lack of options available to India, where seemingly no one wants to abandon a four-year peace process with Pakistan.

But in India's restraint, many here also see a pragmatic approach to a problem as old as the country itself. It's the response, they say, of a nation with ambitions to become a global powerhouse, not a mere player in an unending regional feud.

"We can't keep going back at it with Pakistan. C'mon man! Where would that leave us?" university student Sanjay Joshi asked. "We've done war. We're in a different place now. It's not about India-Pakistan.

"It's about India, what can we do as a country, what can we achieve," he said.

Sitting in one of the bright, new coffee shops that have sprung up in recent years throughout this land of roadside tea stalls, Joshi gave off the air of a man unrestrained by ancient traditions, old rivalries, past injustices.

One of his friends, 21-year-old Reema Sarin, said: "What do I care for Pakistan? We should all leave each other alone."

It's a sentiment that flies in the face of history.

Hindu-majority India and Muslim Pakistan were born in the bloody partition of the subcontinent at independence from Britain in 1947. They have fought three wars, held tit-for-tat nuclear weapons tests and engaged in countless battles before peace talks got under way in 2004.

For India, the timing could not have been better. Its economy was taking off and the dialing down of tensions with Pakistan allowed it to start carving out an identity separate from its troubled neighbor.

India could start claiming what it always considered its rightful place as a world power. It began lobbying for a U.N. Security Council seat, flexed its economic muscles and, within a year, it reached a landmark nuclear energy cooperation deal with the United States.

The agreement would reverse three decades of American policy by allowing atomic trade with India, which has not signed international nonproliferation accords.

India's leaders say the deal will help the country power its energy-hungry economy and raise its global standing.

However, the deal must still be approved by the Nuclear Suppliers Group of countries that export nuclear material.

A Western diplomat whose country belongs to the NSG said any serious ramping up of tension with Pakistan could make such approval difficult to secure. The diplomat insisted on anonymity because of the sensitivity of the deal.

But that doesn't mean India and Pakistan are close to securing a lasting peace.

Last month, tensions rose after a suicide car bombing at New Delhi's mission in Kabul killed 58 people. India and Afghanistan — and, reportedly, the United States — believe Pakistan's spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, orchestrated the attack.

The bombing is widely viewed as a Pakistani attempt to undermine India's budding friendship with Afghanistan, which Islamabad considers a strategic rear base in any potential conflict with India. Pakistan denies any role but has promised to investigate.

"We know the promise is weak, but there is relatively little India can do short of military action and we do not have the stomach for that," said Radha Kumar, the director at Jamia Millia Islamia University's Nelson Mandela Centre for Peace and Conflict Resolution.

Both India and Pakistan also blame each other for the 19 shootings this year across the fortified frontier in divided Kashmir, an overwhelmingly Muslim region in the Himalayas that lies at the heart of their rivalry. Once an everyday event, gunfire on the frontier had become rare since a 2003 truce.

The two countries nonetheless reaffirmed last weekend their commitment to the peace process at a regional summit in neighboring Sri Lanka.

India seems to have fewer answers for the 13 bombings that have struck the country's cities since October 2005, killing more than 552 people. The latest came in late July, when 22 synchronized explosions killed 42 people in the western city of Ahmadabad.

All have been blamed on Islamic militants, but no one seems to agree on who's responsible: homegrown militants? Pakistanis? Bangladeshis? A combination of the three?

Still, the attacks have done little to alter life for most Indians, as terror-related deaths only account for a fraction of India's 1.1 billion people. The U.S. National Counterterrorism Center reported 3,674 deaths from January 2004 to March 2007, second only to Iraq.

"Danger is everywhere. But I have to live my life," Manoj Bose, a 45-year-old fruit vendor in Ahmadabad, said a day after the bombings. He was back on the street selling fruit a block from where one of the blasts struck.

"What are the chances that I will be killed? I survived this time."
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Cast in myth

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Cast in myth


K. PRADEEP


Artisans from Bastar not only breath myth and magic into their metal artefacts, but they also show traditional artistes in Kerala how to adapt and survive in changing market conditions. 

Photo: K. Pradeep


<img src='http://www.hindu.com/mag/2008/08/10/images/2008081050320701.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Shaping dreams: Artisans from Bastar at work in Thiruvananthapuram.

Sankarlal Jhara loves to sing and he does it at the drop of a hat. In raw Chattisgarhi Hindi, in full throated ease, he sings about his philosophy of life. It conceptualises his ideas, emotions. The song is full of their activities, interactions with men, with nature, with the spirit world.

This song extends to his craft too. Sankarlal, along with 137 tribal artists from various areas adjoining Bastar and Raigarh districts of Chattisgarh, attempt to make the imaginable real. They bring myth and magic to the objects they make. They transfer the images, ideas, expressions of their songs and their music to their works of art.

Leaving their little villages, wedged in by thick forests, the mountains, rivers, waterfalls, the intoxicating mahua flowers, where art is part of their very existence, these artists came down South for the first time. <b>They took part in a 42-day art workshop, organised by the Kerala Lalithakala Akademi, in association with the South Zone Cultural Centre, Thanjavur, and Indira Gandhi Rashtriya Manav Sangrahlaya, Bhopal, at Kozhikode and Kochi recently.</b>

Lessons learnt

More than providing these traditional artists a new space, the Akademi had other objectives in organising these two workshops. “What we have observed, at least in Kerala, is that there is absolutely no effort to preserve traditional knowledge. All that we had is gradually vanishing. These traditional arts are actually a documentation of a time, society and culture. We wanted to create awareness about the significance of traditional art and craft,” says T.A. Satyapal, Akademi secretary.

<b>Kerala has an indigenous, 600-year-old casting technology. It is believed that artisans from Thanjavur settled on the banks of the Pampa River at Mannar, near Alappuzha. The clay along the river banks was best suited for their works of metal art. They flourished mainly because of the feudal societal system that was prevalent then. “With the end of this system the artisans found work hard to come by. The superstitions attached to the casting technology of these artisans, like keeping away women, making only traditional artefacts, gradually brought them to the verge of extinction. Today at Mannar you may find rows of shops but most of the artefacts here are mechanically made in places like Moradabad. The tradition is lost as the artists did not evolve,” </b>says Satyapal.

The workshop also had a few artists from Mannar who worked alongside the tribal artists. “This was a new experience for us. Watching these highly skilled craftsmen at work, and by interacting with them, we have picked up some valuable lessons. <b>At the end of the day we have decided to try out some new items other than just working on the traditional ones. They will be works that cannot be replicated by machines,” </b>says Jeevan Raj.

<b>“There is nothing in the curriculum for students of sculpture both for BFA and MFA in metal casting. Hence, most of the students end up working on clay or other mediums. Added to this is the functioning of a sort of ‘art mafia’ that promotes painting, pumping in a lot of money into this genre. This has forced many skilled sculptors and craftsmen to shift to painting. We had as observers art students, blacksmiths, who again have not gone beyond the usual artefacts, who must have gained a lot of confidence from the work of these tribal artists. The Akademi has plans for a follow-up sculpture, metal casting workshop for this group soon,” </b>adds Satyapal.

<b>The tribal artists were provided the materials and they crafted 207 exquisite, exclusive works of art. They were then exhibited at the Akademi gallery in Kochi. “We paid each of the artists Rs. 12,000, looked after their travel, food and accommodation. The whole project cost us Rs. 28 lakh. We now propose to set up a tribal museum in Kochi where these works will be preserved. We have not put any of these objects on sale. The exhibition did attract a lot of orders, which have been sent to the tribal artists.”</b>

Vibrant tradition

Endless in variety, tremendous in craftsmanship the works of these tribal artists provided a glimpse into their world. They have, through generations, kept the art alive and vibrant. The intricate method of moulding clay, the elaborate work on wood, stone and metal, turning them into mind-boggling forms and designs is simply alluring.

<b>The metal casting method that the tribal artists use is the lost wax technique. This is perhaps the same that was used by the Mohenjodaro craftsmen. This ancient art, imbued with an intrinsic starkness and vitality, makes each of the objects of art exclusive, coveted pieces. Though this technique is used worldwide, the coiled thread technique is unique to the craftsmen of Bastar.</b> The craftsmen of this area, as also of the neighbouring areas of Chattisgrah, are artists first and metal workers later. <b>Working on bee wax, they etch out designs and images that form in their mind. The motifs used are all inspired by their culture, the animals around them, gods and goddesses, everyday work, dance and music.</b>

<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<span style='color:red'>Many families have lost their bread winners. Some have been killed whereas others seriousely handicapped. To help these families, instead of depending upon the secular anti-Hindu governments, Sangharsh Samiti has launched a fund raising campaign within Jammu. While they are collecting money from home to home, they invite all Indians to contribute -- a statement issued here said.

All interested in contributing to the Shaheed Fund of Sri Amarnath Yatra Sangharsh Samiti may deposit their contributions in any branch of the Punjab National Bank A/C No. 3965000100147291.

Additionally to help the movement financially, contributions may be deposited in main account of Samiti at any PNB Branch - A/C no. 3965000100147282.

Samiti's Treasurer may be reached at +91 94191 88057 or +91 94191 41408 for additional info.
</span>


शहीदों और घायलों की मदद के लिए आगे आएं

जम्मू, हमारे प्रतिनिधि : अमरनाथ संघर्ष समिति ने आंदोलन को सफल बनाने के लिए सभी देशवासियों को आगे आने का आग्रह किया है। समिति के संयोजक लीला करण शर्मा ने कहा कि आंदोलन के दौरान आठ व्यक्ति शहीद तथा सैकड़ों लोग घायल हुए हैं। इनके परिवार के सदस्यों को नहीं लगना चाहिए कि वह अपने परिवार के सदस्य से बिछुड़ जाने के बाद अकेले रह गए हैं। उनकी सहायता करना सभी का फर्ज बनता है। उनकी सहायता के लिए श्री अमरनाथ यात्रा संघर्ष समिति शहीद फंड खोला गया है। जो भी शहीदों के परिवारों को कोई पैसा भेजना चाहते हो वह अकाउंट नं. 3965000100147291 में पैसा, चेक, ड्राफ्ट जमा करवा सकते हैं। श्री अमरनाथ यात्रा संघर्ष समिति के आंदोलन को सफल बनाने के लिए द पंजाब नेशनल बैंक लिमिटेड की देश की किसी भी शाखा में अकाउंट नंबर 3965000100147282 में पैसा जमा करवा सकते हैं। कोई भी जानकारी लेने के लिए 9419188057, 9419141408 से संपर्क कर सकते हैं।

Starting a new topic on History of J&K.
There's a lot of myths and misconceptions flying around given the recent Amarnath land deal controversy. These myths are gaining legs as the our card carrying vote bank seculars have a shoe ready.
Please use this thread to list this thread and debunk myths.

<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Jul 31 2008, 08:26 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Jul 31 2008, 08:26 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Nareshji,

<!--QuoteBegin--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->One does believe that one did not post the Five Points you refer to. If so then please let me have the refercence to the post and then one will eat humble pie as well as eat crow.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's still archived on this very forum (Paki thread, strange that you missed it). The name of author's missing since software periodically removes name of members who go inactive - but subsequent posts by other IF members should not leave any doubt about authorship.
No need for eating any crows. If and when we meet, the choicest murg tandoori/mussalam is on me. Along with a Patiala peg of Lagavulin <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->
[right][snapback]85511[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b>Viren Ji :</b>

Many, many thanks for the link. Problem solved and all I can say is - the least you can do - is to appreciate that it is not my language!!

In addition I always sign off with <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->!!!

Under-the-stood?

I am sure that when you pass through London it will be Lagavulin - an Islay Malt - for you but it would be Maker's Mark or Bookers for me. I also like the Jack Daniels Single Barrel or Col. Blanton's Gold Label. At the moment I am going through a Bottle of Col. Blanton - Silver Label Warehouse H, Barrel No. 290, Rick No. 26, Bottle No. 231.

To a fellow partaker of the Wee Dram of the Drop from the Ol’ Crater : Never mind your case of Mistaken Identity. You are forgiven.

Next time you get a chance try a McDowell Single Malt or an Amrut Single Cask or even the Amrut Peated variety.

Man, you will like the taste of the "Sunny Indians".

This time I will sign off with Slandjay as well as the usual Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->