<!--emo&n^3--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/n3.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='n3.gif' /><!--endemo--> asked in another thread
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->2. The fables. The Panchatrantra are the best-known source, translated to many languages, but what is their original source and where can one find the closest to the originals, plus translations?

3. Much of what is known as Grimm's Fairy Tales and Hans Anderson's Fairy Tales are closely related to stories that have been around in India for the usual 145,000,000,000,000,000 years. Where are those stories located originally?
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Ramana replied:

Post # 156
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Also w.r.t. n3post #121 about the origin of world folklore etc., Joseph Jacobs did pioneering research in this area in the late 1800s and wrote numerous books. His conclusions are that the majority of folklore in the West comes from India. he traces the many iterations of the various tales.

Based on his book I once wrote an article on how the Brer Rabbit tale of the tar baby is related to the tale of the Buddha. It was in soc. culture. india in the mid 90s when I came across JJ. Will see if I can find it.

Here is an link to his book about the various tales:

http://www.authorama.com/indian-fairy-tales-1.html


Here are his notes and references:
http://www.authorama.com/indian-fairy-tales-31.html

At a minimum people should read the Notes and Refs.
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I am cross posting some thoughts I had in the conflicting narratives thread to start a new topic. I leave it to forum leaders to decide its fate.

As part of a discussion I was having there - it seems to me that organized and forced conversions basically amount to sedition.

Sedition is defined (in an online dictionary) as
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> The raising of commotion in a state, not amounting to
      insurrection; conduct tending to treason, but without an
      overt act; excitement of discontent against the
      government, or of resistance to lawful authority.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The reason I say this is based on the discussion cross posted
<!--QuoteBegin-saik+Apr 19 2007, 09:33 PM-->QUOTE(saik @ Apr 19 2007, 09:33 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What Hinduism says, is correct about the concept of following "any thing/person" as God, as long on realizes that it does not make difference.. but inclusion of Allah and Jesus means, the concept fails in its premise.

These western religion (xitian, muslim etc) followers does not accept Hindu ways.. hence, the acceptance of Hindu concepts is a problem for these folks. If that is the case, then it is required to make EJ proof, that we should not include Allah and Jesus from the texts of making all these Gods are okay to be followed.

I say, NO. If you are following Hinduism, then its NOT OK to follow Jesus or Allah, as they don't subscribe to Hindu way of living.

Hence, lets get out of this mentality of making the "hindu concept for all" theories, and rather stick to SD purely. The moment Jesus and Allah-ism enters, SDism is trashed.. they are totally opposite to understandings and realizations. Why include Jesus and Allah.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

OK these are interesting observations, but to me your observations raise more prickly questions.

If the universal philosophy of the Hindu dharma cannot accommodate two more "Gods" Allah and Jehovah, how is the philosophy "universal" as claimed. It is just another viewpoint like the viewpoint held by Allah/Yahweh followers?

If we were to argue that Allah/Jehovah are not Gods at all, then how is the Hindu viewpoint any different from Allah saying "There is no God but me" and all other "Gods" are false.

With respect SaiK - I think you are misinterpreting the Hindu concept of "God" (as being the same as oneness/unity) to serve a particular narrow need to reject Allah and Yahweh. I believe that is wrong.

As long as a person accepts that it is OK to worship Allah or Shiva, and both are the same - he subscribes to the Hindu scheme of things.

If, however, he says that Shiva is out, only Allah/Yahweh are in, then that is a closing of the mind that goes against the tenets of Hinduism. Similarly saying that Shiva is in, Allah is out <i>could be</i> a closing of one's mind.

But this "closing of the mind" also raises some questions. Hindu thought has always accepted that minds could be closed and Hindu literature is rife with examples and guidelines of how one can open one's mind. It requires an opening of one's mind to put ALL Gods on an equal footing. More importantly there is a Hindu acceptance that different people can have different Gods, which means that different people can see or feel God of different human descriptions, but the important rider the Hindu dharma puts on all these Gods is that they refer to the same ultimate reality. There is no traditional Hindu reference to giving ranks to God as far as I know and would accept being corrected in this regard.

But when I speak of "traditional Hindu references" we have to see what references and knowledge exists in Hindu thought after Hindus became aware of the existence of closed mind concepts like Allah and Yahweh. In terms of "Yet another God" Allah and Yahweh offer nothing new to Hindu thought. But in terms of social and destructive military organization built around Allah and Yahweh, Hindus thinkers have hardly had a chance to cope with the consequences.

How many Hindu thinkers would have survived and continued their thinking in the middle of a tornado. That is what Alllah's followers did to Hindus and that is what Yahweh's followers are doing in a different way. How much locigal Hindu thought has gone into accepting or rejecting what Allah and Yahweh bring us? Vivekananda again is one of the few people we can rely on as a basis for coping with the flood of questions.

The point I am trying to make, is a I believe a very important one in terms of understanding just what SORT of threat is posed by Islamism and malignant evangelism.

The presence of an Allah or a Yahweh is no threat. Hinduism can shake off any Gods that exist or that are yet to come.

But the real threat is in the forcible closing of minds that is required by the active spread of Islam and Christianity by conversion. Those who seek to close minds by forcing belief in a particular direction are a threat to freedom.

The argument that is used for allowing conversions is that one is allowed freedom of belief. Fine, but does belief in Jehovah or Allah give you freedom to believe in Shiva too? If not, then conversions have nothing to do with freedom. Using the word freedom is basically deceit. Freedom of religion does not amount to freedom of deceit.

I believe that it is important to have very clearly in our minds, the reason why conversion is a threat. Conversion to a thought process that accepts no other God is an assault on the identity of India. Indians have always accepted other faiths as equals. The survival of India as a secular state as per the Indian constitution demands that no thought process or religion should undermine the equality of all religions and Gods. This is perfectly compatible with Hindu thought as expressed in the post by Acharya above:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Hinduism never state it has monopoly on truth or God.  According to Hinduism, God & truth are universal.

Rig Veda states:  'ekam sat viprah bahudaa vadanti'  …meaning Truth or God is one but learnt men describe it in many ways.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Anyone who attempts to upset that equality by preaching the supremacy of one God over the other is anti-national and must be opposed as an assault on the constitution. Organized or forced Conversion (or conversion by its Islamic name "reversion") is sedition.

I do not want to derail this thread, so I wil start a new thread using this post - and will leave it to the froum leaders to decide whether it should survive or not.

<b>Indian origins of Roma</b>

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Indian origin of the Roma, on one hand, was irrefutably established nearly two and a half centuries ago. On the other hand, we still do not know precisely when the Roma left India, why they left, or to which level of society they belonged. It is decidedly not simple to verify, but through the cooperation of linguists (experts in Indic languages in their various stages of development and, of course, experts in Romani), historians (and those include specialists in Indian history as well as Persian, Byzantine and Arabic history), ethnologists and others, it might be possible to arrive at a conclusion which comes as close as possible to the truth.

<b>Although specialists have known for a long time where the Roma come from, this fact has not yet penetrated into the general consciousness. Even many Roma have not had the opportunity of learning (e.g., in school) about their land of origin.</b> In popular-science literature half truths are still passed on about how Roma belonged to the lowest, "untouchable" castes on Indian soil. That statement does not take into account the length of Indian history, in which today's "untouchables" formerly belonged to the co-creators of an advanced civilisation. Only after they were gradually subjugated by "Aryan" Indo-Europeans, did they, as defeated people, find themselves on the edge of society. <b>Exactly because the pre-history of the Roma has not been properly evaluated, some Roma deny that India is their land of origin and look for their origin, e.g. in Palestine, in Egypt, etc. </b>On the other hand, <b>there are more Roma who find in their Indian origin one of their sources of national pride</b>. One of these, for example, is the Russian Roma poet (born in Latvia) Leksa Manush. He wrote a paraphrase of one of the two oldest Indian epic poems, "Ramajanam". Naturally even Roma historians such as the above-mentioned Ian Hancock, the late Bartoloměj Daniel or Jana Horváthová and others are aware of the Indian origin of Roma and try to contribute to filling in the picture of "Indian" Roma history.

In India there is a very strong interest in Roma. In the capital of the state of Punjab, Chandigarh, a Roma centre has been functioning for the past 70 years. It was originally founded by politician and diplomat W.R. Rishi. It publishes the magazine "Roma" and Roma literature. It published, for example, Manush's modern version of "Ramajanam".

On Indian soil there have been international Roma cultural festivals. One of them took place in Chandigarh in 1993. It was addressed by the then prime minister, Indira Gandhi.

A good understanding of Indian culture and history can contribute to the national pride of the Roma.
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Ladies and Gentlemen.

I would like to have your indulgence by starting a topic of discussion at India Forum, a topic that has been axed (banned) at Bharat-Rakshak. All the participants have been advised/suggested to come to India-Forum. Thus I ask India Forum to welcome participants who may take refuge here for active discussion that are tough but important.

For new participants from BR I would like to request them to please start with a post introducing yourself or at least your BRF Handle/Name.

Let me start with the last post on this topic at Bharat-Rakshak Forum:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Shiv

This is an admin announcement

The heat generated in the last 10 religion threads and these last two threads on Communal tension/relations that followed on from the religion threads led to a vote among admins on BR as to whether the topics should be retained or not.

At last count the decision to lock this series of threads was reached by an admin vote of 8 for versus 4 against.

I will be locking this thread.

A suggestion has been made that these topics can be freely discussed on India Forum and a request that anyone who wishes to continue discussions on the issues should do so on India Forum.

http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

This thread will remain in a locked state for a while and then be consigned to the trashcan<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Arun_S  12 Apr 2007   

If I may add a request.

For people who participate on this topic at India Forum, for continuity of discussion, it will be a good idea to use same user name as BR Forum or if you use a different user name, please announce your BRF ID so we do not have to discuss the same issues and familiarizes with where is person coming from (from contextual memory purpose).

I am glad to see BR Admin community recognizing India-Forum and listing its URL on BRF and asking people to participate there:

Link to India Forum: Discussion Someone please start a thread there by the name "Communal relations - conflicting narratives"

http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

Thank you Ladies and Gentlemen.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For back reference the old BR threads are:
Communal relations - conflicting narratives -Thread-1
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?t=3065

Communal relations - conflicting narratives -Thread-2
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic...er=asc&&start=0

Religion Discussion threads (10 threads archived):
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewforum...a7dc34f34ce19b9

I am convinced that people joining from Bharat-Rakshak will enjoy the environment here and also I trust India-Forum folks will also gain from the bigger collective fraternity of people who care about India.

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/27206.html

Who’s responsible for the stereotypes of Islam?

Sudheendra Kulkarni

Posted online: Sunday, April 01, 2007 at 0000 hrs IST


Islam fascinates me. But the conduct of some of its adherents also frustrates me. The positive aspects of Islam are too numerous to escape the attention of any unprejudiced and truth-seeking non-Muslim. For example, Hindus have much to learn from Muslims about the virtue of solidarity and fellow-feeling within their community. During the month of Ramadan, I am captivated by the sight of Muslims who, after offering their evening namaz, end their day’s fast by grouping together and eating from the same plate, without any distinction of class or status.

Also, one can only marvel at the power of devotion and the degree of self-surrender of many Muslim mystics, whose lives have undoubtedly influenced pious, ordinary Muslims. Here is a story told by Vinoba Bhave, the great Gandhian who learnt Arabic at age 50 just to study the Holy Quran in the original. An old Muslim saint once had a thorn in his foot. It had gone deep and doctors were worried that the pain involved in removing it would be too much for the old soul to bear. One of his devotees then told them, “Don’t worry. You remove it while he is offering his prayers. He will be so engrossed in Allah that he won’t feel anything.”

Sadly, this ennobling aspect of Islam sits uneasily with the fanaticism that tarnishes its image. Last week I was shocked to watch an interview with Zakir Naik, a well-known Mumbai-born Muslim preacher, whose TV talks on Islam are highly popular in India and around the world. His books and audio/video cassettes are sold in huge numbers worldwide.

Watch the interview at YouTube, the free video site on the Internet, and draw your own conclusions.

Interviewer: Here is a question from a non-Muslim from India. Are non-Muslims allowed to preach their religion and to build their places of worship in an Islamic state? If so, why is building of temples and churches disallowed in Saudi Arabia, whereas Muslims are building their mosques in London and Paris?

Zakir Naik: I ask the non-Muslims, suppose you are the principal of a school and you intend to select a mathematics teacher. Three candidates come and you ask them, what’s the total of 2 plus 2? The first replies: 2 plus 2 equals 3. The second answers: 2 plus 2 equals 4. And the third one answers that 2 plus 2 equals 6. Now, I ask these non-Muslims, will you allow the candidate to teach in your school who says that 2 plus 2 equals 3 or that 2 plus 2 equals 6? They’ll say, no. I ask, why? They’ll say, because he does not have correct knowledge of mathematics. Similarly, as far as matters of religion are concerned we (Muslims) know for sure that only Islam is a true religion in the eyes of God. In the Holy Quran (3:85), it is mentioned that God will never accept any religion other than Islam. As far as the second question, regarding building of churches or temples is concerned, how can we allow this when their religion is wrong and when their worshipping is wrong? Therefore, we will not allow such wrong things in our Islamic country.

Interviewer: But is it not that they (non-Muslims) also think that their religion is true, whereas we (Muslims) think that our religion is true?

Zakir Naik: In religious matters only we know for sure that we Muslims are right. They (non-Muslims) are not sure. Thus, in our country we can’t allow preaching other religions because we know for sure that only Islam is the right religion. However, if a non-Muslim likes to practise his religion in an Islamic country, he can do so inside his home — but he can’t propagate his religion. It is exactly as if a teacher thinks in his mind that 2 plus 2 equals 3. He has the right to do so, but we can never allow such a person to teach this to our children. Non-Muslims are no doubt experts in science and technology. But they (non-Muslims) are not sure about religious truths. Therefore, we are trying to get them to the right path of Islam.”

Naik’s views provoke a troubling question in my mind: “Why do some Muslims demand secularism and more than equal treatment in countries where they are a minority, but aggressively turn anti-secular and deny even equal treatment to non-Muslims in many Muslim-majority countries?” Muslims cannot escape their responsibility to answer this question.

Naik’s defense of the denial of fundamental human rights of non-Muslims in Saudi Arabia is not unrelated to an unbelievable incident that happened recently in the land where Islam was born. On February 26, four French nationals — all non-Muslims working in Saudi Arabia — were killed by gunmen. Their crime? They were resting on the side of a desert road about 10 miles from the holy city of Medina, which, like Mecca, is restricted to Muslims only.

Whenever non-Muslims, including those who admire Islam’s positive features, express alarm at incidents like these, or at views such as Zakir Naik’s, they are accused of spreading “stereotypes” about Islam and Muslims. But shouldn’t Muslims themselves be debating what produces these stereotypes?

Moderators are requested to please feel free to merge it to an existing thread of relevance if exists, or leave it if they think it is worth a thread.

There is a growing (natural or inspired) thought, that "good" future for India and Indians is only ensured by adopting the language of English as the primary language. I notice, many families for last 2 decades have started promoting English as the mother tounge of their children. Most 'elite' people, even very conservative in other matters, strnly opine on this matter, and generally support ENglish as the primary language of instruction. Many, in my observation, (still) feel that it is only English which has the caliber and strength, to keep India as one united nation and soceity.

But this self-sustained promotion of English language has a very far-reaching and deep implications on future of India. It is definitely worth exloring and analysing the progress of Indic languages (I am not referring to Sanskrit) vis-a-vis that of English in India.

I think this is worth analysis and discussion.

Let us begin with some facts:

- Only 5% population of India can speak, read or understand English.

- English is the language of elite, powerful, 'ruling class' of India.

- English is not growing in parallel to the growth of the Indic languages, but at the expense of them. Instead of complementing, English is competing with Indic.

- English is rapidly growing as the preferred medium of education, even at the primary level, driven by the economy.

- In B and C class cities, where the majority middle class of India lives, primary and secondary education is slowly being transformed into English-medium. However quality of language and instruction is very poor. This has impact on overall quality of education, and becomes a competitive burden rather than edge.

- There is a feeling that English can only be learnt if it is the PRIMARY language, thereby making Indic languages secondary or tertiary.

- In elite section of soceity, English is not just the language of instruction, but a trend is emerging for last couple of decades, where English is being promoted by families as the 'mother toungue' of children. Many times, Indic languages are taught just as a remote foreign language.

- At the same time, driven by cinema and telivision, a very un-cultured impure Indic language is being promoted. Those who watch Hindi TV channels, would probably know what I am talking about. Urdu and english mixed with Hindi, is what they call Hindi. And I am not referring to natural mixture of languages. I am referring to artificial, promoted, and deliberate bastardization of language. For instance, a few years back 'Samachar' was the common world for news. Now every channel uses 'Khabar'. Watch any Hindi movie...and you know what I mean. In 15 minutes you will catch at least 50 non-Hindi words - ones which are NOT naturally imported so far (I am not talking about Dunia and Maja and Kamij).

- Indian Corporates and business houses have adopted English not just as the commercial language, but even as cultural language. Logos, icons, what not.

- So far, till a couple of decades back, English was only one of the main languages of government business, others being on equal status. But now, English has become practially THE language, slowly becoming the ONLY language.

- It is a riddle to me, that movie-makers make movies in Indic languages, but are seen talking mainly in English on interviews, ceremonies, debates etc.

- Several times, pure Indic languages is a matter of ridicule. Not just in films but in real life. Try saying, "vichar-vimarsha" (discussion/exchange of views) in Delhi and see how people react. In films, purish Hindi is spoken by the comic characters, and is a matter of laughter. (Contrast to the movies of Amol Palekar era, where leads spoke good Hindi). I am not sure if the same situation exists in cinema of South.

- Literature richness. Indic languages, thanfully, are still churning out very good quality, vibrant, and well-received literature, and has a very good readership. All Indic languages are doing reasonably well here.

- Make no mistake, so far, English is NOT the language of people of India.

- No English newspaper is even in the top 10 most-read papers of India. largest read Hindi paper is read by more people than the readership of all English news papers added together. Even trend is that ENglish readership is shrinking and Indic growing.

- There is a feeling amongst those who take decisions, that except for English being the 'supreme' language, there is NO road possible for India, economically. Not just knowing good english is enough, English must be the first language.

- Many in the present generation already feel the same distance from prakrit languages, as others feel from Sanskrit. More than once I was surprised to find that, for many people, understanding a doha of Kabir or a chaupai of Tulsi is almost as difficult as understanding a shloka of Gita. Some, I have met, would mistake Tulsidas' dialect of Hindi (awadhi) to Sanskrit! But such are still a minority, although growing.

What do others feel?

From Chandigarh, Tribune, 4 April, 2007

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Stem cell therapy cures Parkinson’s patient
Jangveer Singh
Tribune News Service

Bangalore, April 4
<b>Indian stem cell researchers at the Manipal hospital here today announced the first worldwide case of a recovery from Parkinson's disease by use of stem cells from the patient's own body.</b>

The claim is significant because the patient, Andrew Kisana, a US citizen of Pakistani origin, had come to Manipal hospital for treatment for Parkinson's disease after receiving both conventional as well as surgical treatment for the disease in the US. “This is clearly the first such clearly documented case in which a patient has recovered from Parkinson’s disease after the use of stem cells”, hospital managing director R. Basil disclosed.

Andrew’s recovery is significant. His daughter Kusma told TNS that her father found it difficult to walk and was dragging his right leg when he was admitted to the Manipal hospital last year. Andrew had found it difficult to swallow and even breathe when he was admitted to the hospital.

Andrew walked unaided to meet mediapersons today. Though his speech has improved, it is still slightly blurred. So he put across his thoughts via his laptop. Andrew said since his treatment here his general muscle strength had improved as had his gait, handwriting and bowel movements. He can walk unaided, which was impossible earlier and his tremors have reduced significantly.

Andrew said earlier though his motor skills had improved after a deep brain stimulation surgery conducted on him in the USA, he started having side effects, including severe laryngeal spasms. He said the current treatment had ensured an end to these spasms also. Andrew has been off all drugs for Parkinson’s disease since the past six months.

<b>Explaining how this came about, hospital’s nuerological disease institute head Dr N.K Venkataramana said Andrew had received three injections of isolated mesenchymal cells which had been harvested from his bone marrow. As many as 1.5 million of these stem cells had been transplanted into his brain. He said each injection cost Rs 75,000 adding that the cost could be reduced at a later stage.</b>

<b>Dr Venkataramana said stem cell research seemed to be promising in regenerating hope to cure Parkinson’s disease as the present treatment at the best removed some of the symptoms but did not stop the progression of the disease.</b> He said the present initiative would motivate patients across the world to explore this new modality which did not involve any issue of ethics as adult stem cells were used. <b>“However, we need to observe the long term clinical effects in large number of patients to decide its role in the treatment of degenerative diseases”,</b> he added.
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http://vinaymangal.com/vedictimetravel.pdf

The Age of Gemini

The Age of Gemini (c.6000 - c.4000) corresponded to the flourishing period of early Hinduism. It was under this sign that Rama, the seventh incarnation of Vishnu was manifested by the birth of the two pair of brothers: Rama and Lakshmana on the one hand, Satrughna and Bharata on the other. Rama Himself had twin sons: Lav and Kush (in harmony with the name of the constellation where the Sun was at that time.) Lav went to Russia from this we get the name of Slav. The other son, Kush went to China, hence we get the name Kushan. These two divine principles were also incarnated as Buddha and Mahavira, then as Adi Shankaracharya and Gnyaneshwara. In other Avatars they were Hassan and Hussein the sons of Fatima and Hazrat Ali . . . Rama incarnated during the Treta Yuga when the fourth chakra (Adi Anahathh) was opened in Virata. Anahathh is an important centre of the human being since it is here (on the left side, at the heart level) where the individual Spirit or the Self resides. "For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be" Jesus said (Luke 12:34.)

The Age of Taurus

The Age of Taurus (c.4000 - c.2000 B.C.). The aeon governing this age was Krishna, the eight Avatar, the Lord of the cows (Govinda.) The age stayed under the sign of the bull (Apis, or sacred bull Mnevis of Helipolis, identified to Ra), of the holy cow (Hathor in Egypt, surahbhi or Kamadhenu in India or may be worshipped in many spiritual cultures), or the golden calf in the polytheistic beliefs (see Exodus 32:4), preceding the Judaic monotheism. Krishna was said to have lived at the end of Dvapara Yuga (Encyclopaedia Universalis, Paris 1968, vol. 9, p.711) considered by some to have ended in the year 3102 B.C. (Zimmer, quoted work.) According to tradition, Krishna lived in the fourth millennium B.C. (La grande encyclopedie, H. Lamirault et Co., Paris, vol. 21, p.647.) During his time the fifth chakra (Adi Vishuddhi) of the Cosmic Being was enlightened.

The Age of Aries

The Age of Aries (c.2000 - 1 B.C.) was characterized by the establishment of the monotheistic Judaism through great spiritual personalities like Abraham (19th century B.C.) and Moses (13th century B.C.). Generally, this period was dominated by the manifestation of the universal principle of the spiritual master (Adi Guru Dattatreya.) Indeed, before the Christian era, Zarathustra incarnated (7th or 6th or even 10th century according to some opinions), Confucius and Lao-Tse (6th century), Socrates (5th century), alongside with the two great Jewish prophets (see chapt. X.) The symbol of the ram (or the Passover lamb) appeared as an object of sacrifice instead of worship, as a reaction against the belief of the previous age. That could be illustrated by the cult of Mithra who stabbed the mythological bull.

The Age of Pisces

The Age of Pisces (A.D. 1 - c.2000) during which Christianity appeared and spread out. The fish was known to have been the secret sign used by the early Christians to identify each other. The Greek word Ichtus (=fish) was made up of the following phrase capitals (acrostic): Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter (=Jesus Christ Son of God, the Saviour.) In Hinduism it was also the symbol of the Saviour (Vishnu's first incarnation in the shape of a fish saved Manu from the flood)...

Similar to Mahavishnu, Jesus represented the ninth Avatar, who opened the Agnya chakra within the Cosmic Being. The reflection of this chakra at the microcosmic human level is situated in the centre of the forehead where the left channel (Ida nadi) and the right channel (Pingala nadi) form a subtle crossing. From an anatomical point of view, this is the place of:

* i) the chiasma opticalis (optical nerve crossing), corresponding to the anterior aspect of the chakra (front Agnya);

* ii) the decussatio pyramidum (crossing of the motor nuclei fibres of the spinal nerves for the upper limb and upper trunk and for the lower limb and lower trunk respectively), corresponding to the posterior aspect of the chakra (back Agnya.)


The three channels cross at the Agnya which represents the most narrow way for the Kundalini to pass through. It is the "narrow gate" that Jesus said about: "Strive with earnestness to enter through the narrow door, for many, I say, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:24.) "Enter through the narrow gate" (Matthew 7:13.) Jesus revealed Himself as the Master of the Agnya chakra: "I am the door; if any one enter in by Me, he shall be saved" (John 10.9.) He will be saved because he will be able to reach the end, of the spiritual ascent, Sahasrara (the Kingdom of Heavens the synthesis of all chakras, where the individual Spirit joins with the Universal Spirit - God.)

The Mahabharata (14.2784) says that the gate of heaven is very small and narrow. It cannot be seen by those without any sense and blinded by the vain illusions of this world. Even those who can see well, who see the way and want to enter, will find the door locked and hard to open. Its heavy bolts are pride, lust, greed and debauchery. Jesus said to the Pharisees: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation" (Luke 17:20.) Schmemaan wrote: "For the early Christians the all-encompassing reality and the terrific newness of their belief was precisely that the Kingdom had drawn near and though unseen, it had already been there, among the people, illuminating and working in the world."

The Agnya chakra controls mental processes. Maitrayana Upanishad says (6:34) that the thoughts are the only cause of the cycle of birth and death; man, therefore should endeavour to purify his thoughts. A man is what he thinks: this is the ancient secret. The same idea was expressed by Guatama Buddha in the first line of the Dhammapada: All that we are is the result of what we have thought, is based on our thoughts, and made out of our thoughts. That is why Yogis attach such a great importance to thought detachment and getting into the "thoughtless awareness" or Nirvichara Samadhi; the real state of meditation enabling the union (Yoga.)

The Age Of Aquarius

The Age of Aquarius (c.2000 ) starts at the dawn of Satya Yuga. The beginning of this age was estimated by various calculations around the year 2000. Some astrologers believe that mankind will step out of the mystical age of Pisces right into the luminous age of Aquarius between 2000 and 2050, which means the end of superstitions and of dogmatic religions (apud Bruno Wurtz.) It is not without interest to go back to the Ahmadiya Movement of Islam speaking about Mahdi's appearance on the Earth. We shall quote here Gibb and Kramer (Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam, p.24): "To believe in His as the Second or the Promised Messiah is an article of faith, because first of all His coming early in the 14th century of the Hidjra was predicted by Muhammad." Or, Hidjra (Hegira), the starting point of the Muhammadan period was the 20th of September, 622 and that gives us the date close to the end of the year 1922 maybe the beginning of the year 1923 for the start of the new era.

अपि स्वंणमयी लंका न मे रोचति लक्ष्मणः
जननी जन्मभूमिश्च स्वर्गादपि गरियसी

(After the war, upon asking, Sri Ram addresses Lakshamana that) "O Lakshaman, Lanka, even golden, interests me not. To me, mother and motherland are superior even to heaven (and whom I desire to go back to)" .... Valmiki Ramayan, Yuddha Kandam.

This is to wish everyone well on Rama Navami, the birthday of that great Sri Ramachandra.

Of course the sekoolar Government of India, which celebrates official central government holidays on the birthdays of Mohammed the Prophet, Jesus the Christ, and Gandhi the Mahatma, was working today, just like it does on the birthday of Sri Krishna... PMO office which usually releases the statements, forgot to release any greetings for darn yindoos... of course Prime Minister was too busy entertaining the state guests from Arabia.

Rahul Gandhi says, had a 'Gandhi' been in government in 1992, Babri would not have been demolished at Ram Janma Bhumi. Yes yes. Take revenge now. Demolish Rama Setu, peace be upon Babur. Crossed the coin? Cross the bridge now!

Some would just keep quiet and watch, as Baburs are at it right now. Some would cheer them, if not help. What shall rest of us do? By stand and watch? Ignorance is the culprit, misinformation the villain, inertia the crime.

This is an invitation to do what we can do. At least fight ignorance. At least challenge misinformation.

Here is a website some of us are trying to build. Just started, even hardly so. Domain bridgeofram.com is registered. Some initial content is staged at http://ramasetu.blogspot.com/ and a lot more to add.

I see this as an India Forum initiative and project. Request members to visit http://ramasetu.blogspot.com/, register the protest petition, and subscribe to the e-mail distribution list. Suggestions are welcome, contributions are sought.

Forum leaders: ideas, suggestions, advise? Hope it is fine?

Shall we be joined then, by grace of devi?

Thread to discuss Saraswati Civilization

Let's start with some of Dr Kalayanaramanji excellent work: http://hindunet.org/hindu_history/sarasv...temap1.htm

Some links as starter on the subject:
http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/oct25/articles20.htm
http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/ieindex.htm
http://micheldanino.voiceofdharma.com/indus.html

There could be overlap with topics like AIT and IEL, feel free to cross-post.