This thread is to discuss the role of Xtianity and Islam in slavery. Does the Bible condone slavery? Does the Koran? Are today's black people -Xtian and Muslim- worshipping their tormentors?

Black people comprise a sizeable chunk of the US, and Baptists etc have cleverly deceived poor black people into singing praises of Jesus. The black "Nation of Islam", has chosen Islam as the "religion" through which it will express its anti-white feelings, which is misplaced, to say the least.

The Baptists etc. are able to make plans to harvest souls so freely in Asia partly because their own homes are safe in America. A black "insurgency" will put a spanner in the missionary works.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->can u imagine an India with both pakistan and bangladesh? Would india have seen even this relative "peace" of the last 50 years? We only fought 4 big wars and about 20 years of militancy in about quarter of india's territories.

If gandhi was father of india's independence from the british, jinnah is father of india's prosperity. had it not been for jinnah's long term thinking, we would still be pulled down by larger population of muslims (although gandhi offered Prime minister post to jinnah, jinnah wondered what would happen after he and gandhi died. he knew he was dying soon of cancer anyway) <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wouldn't it be preferable to have had an full scale civil war and winner takes all instead of the slow secular death we are dying today, in my study of history I have not seen another nation which acted as dumb as we did, why did we have partition in the first place if the population exchange was only going to be a one way street?

Today we are told that we don't accept the 2 nation theory then why did we concede partition (built on this premise) in the first place, if we were really serious about not accepting it then we would have fought to keep India united, but we agreed to partition but still make absurd claims of brotherhood.

Tomorrow we will have another partition and then these secularists will come settle down in the remaining chunk we have left and begin fighting against the dreaded Hindu communalists all over again.

All Communists should have been deported to Pakistan since they supported partition but now claim that they didn't.

So when is the first challenge coming????

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->No immunity for laws under Ninth Schedule: SC 

PTI | New Delhi

In a landmark judgment with far reaching implications, the Supreme Court today ruled that any law placed under the Constitution's Ninth Schedule after April 24, 1973 providing immunity from legal challenges are subject to scrutiny of courts if they violated fundamental rights.

In a unanimous verdict, a nine-member Constitution Bench headed by Chief Justice YK Sabharwal rejected Government's claim that certain laws even if they infringed the fundamental rights of citizens cannot be subjected to judicial review, if the legislations were placed under the Ninth Schedule.

The judgement, which came a day after apex court ruled that Parliament's decisions were subject to judicial review, assumes significance in the wake of laws like the one in Tamil Nadu which provides 69 percent reservations and has placed it under the Ninth Schedule to circumvent judicial review.

The apex court had earlier held that social reservations should under no circumstances exceed the permissible limit of 50 per cent. To overcome the ruling, the then Jayalalithaa government placed the law under the Schedule.

Several other states had come out with their own laws on land reforms, land ceilings and other local legislations purportedly infringing upon the fundamental rights and had put them under the Ninth Schedule to avoid judicial scrutiny.

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<b>PSLV launch: Congratulate our scientists!</b>


<!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Singur now Nandigram. Time had come to closely watch West Bengal criminal politics.

We know UPA Govt. will take no action, because neither name of state is Gujarat or state ruled by BJP.
Killing brutality is on going event in WB and now open land grab by pressure or false hope.
Lets see whether hired NGO goons are ready to work in their own playground.

In the last two years, a new trend has been observed in the Indian Society. The advent of Private TV Channels has brought in a silent revolution and has made it possible to empower the common man to influence Government decisions and actions.The re opening of the murder cases relating to Jessica Lal and Priyadersini Matoo are all due to the role played by the private TV Channels and the media in building up of public opinion and forcing the Government to act. The ongoing media coverage on the Noida serial killing has already forced the State Government to agree for a CBI probe. These are only a few examples of the newly discovered power of public acting through the free media. Coupled with this development, we also see the increasing use of the newly enforced Right to Information Act, which has become a powerful weapon to seek information from the Government and other Public authorities.

These are very important milestone in perfecting the democratic institutions of the nation. The significance of these developments lies in the fact that the common man is now feeling that he has something through which he can have his voice heard by the authorities and in the process forcing it to perform its rightful duty. As a side effect of this development, we find that the electronic media is also increasingly resorting to investigative journalism to uncover various corrupt practices. It is only a matter of time before the Courts may allow the evidence gathered electronically to be admissible in the judicial process.

This topic is for collecting articles regarding historicity of jesus.

All India Sociological conference from Dec. 27

Chennai, Dec. 24 (PTI): The vice president of the International Sociological Association, Dr Michael Burawoy, will be among the distinguished speakers at the 32nd All India Sociological Society conference being held here for the first time since establishment of the society in 1951, from December 27 to 29.

The conference will go into the impact of science and technology on the world economic order, social structure and political systems,with particular emphasis on its implications on India's societal development, Dr D Jayalakshmi, organising secretary of the conference and Professor and Head of Madras University's department of Sociology told a press meet on Saturday.

Stating that the theme of the conference was 'Science. Technology and Society: Emerging Issues', which had enormous relevance in today's rapidly changing world, she said research papers to be presented would include topics like social change and development, culture and comunication and social problems and marginalised groups.

Other speakers at the conference, being jointly organised by the University of Madras and ISA and in collaboration with Loyola College, would include former ISA president Alberto Matinelli, Prof Hermann Schwengel Frieberg University (germany) and Prof Tagi A Azadarmaki of the University of Tehran, she said.

About 700 delegates from within and outside India, will participate in it. Delegates from USA, Italy, Iran, Israel, Australia, Germany, Malaysia and Sri Lanka have already confirmed their participation in the conference, which was last held in Tamil Nadu in 1982 at Anamalai University at Chidambaram.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...nationworld-hed

Hitler the trendy tyrant
German dictator no pariah to some in India, the Tribune's Kim Barker reports

By Kim Barker
Tribune's South Asia correspondent
Published December 21, 2006

KHARGHAR, India -- When an Adolf Hitler-themed restaurant opened its doors in a suburb of cosmopolitan Mumbai in August, many were horrified. The restaurant, Hitlers' Cross, changed its name a week later to Cross Cafe, but it is hardly the only example of how some Indians view Hitler and his legacy.

Hindu fundamentalist groups praise Hitler's leadership skills. A college poll a few years ago showed he was perceived as an ideal leader. Books and videos of him are top sellers. Most patrons prefer to call Cross Cafe by its previous name. Plates and cups still bear the Hitlers' Cross logo, with a Nazi swastika in place of the "O."


"We call it `Hitler' only," said Ashish Anant, 18, an aeronautics college student who likes to come to the cafe with friends. "We say, `Let's go to Hitler.' It's a trendy name. It's different."

It's not clear why Hitler is popular in some circles. Some experts say it's because of a belief that Indians were the original Aryan race. Others say it's because Hitler used the traditional Hindu good-luck symbol of the swastika, rotating it slightly. Those who believe strongly in the caste system of India also may like Hitler's eugenics and race beliefs.

Any praise for Hitler is not reflected in national policy. India has strong ties with Israel and views it as an ally in the war on terror. And Jewish and non-Jewish Indians were horrified by Hitlers' Cross. Daniel Zohar Zonshine, the Israel consul general in Mumbai, looked visibly upset when talking about the portrayal of Hitler in India, especially Hitlers' Cross. He said he thinks the owners wanted the free publicity that comes with such controversy.



Educating the public

The consulate has tried to educate Indians about Hitler, sending a Holocaust photograph exhibit and education materials last year to the western state of Gujarat, where government textbooks have praised Hitler. The Israeli Consulate will bring a Holocaust survivor and artist to Mumbai to talk to Indian audiences next month.

"It's not an Israeli issue," said Zonshine, adding that World War II was not ingrained in the DNA of India as it was in that of Europe or Israel. "It's not a Jewish issue. It's a humanitarian issue."

Joshua Reuben, 29, who belongs to India's small Jewish community, said he was offended by the restaurant but did not blame the owners.

"They probably haven't thought about hurting anybody's feelings," he said.

Interviews with many young Indians indicated that they had little idea of what Hitler actually did and that it did not really matter. They described Hitler as "cool" or "trendy." They did not know details of the Holocaust.

"I don't know much," admitted Puneet Sabhlok, 22, one of the co-founders of Hitlers' Cross, which serves only one marginally German item, German chocolate cake.

"He was a dictator," added co-founder Shakir Siddiqui, 27. "Gas chambers and all."

Hitler is glorified in other ways. A poll of 400 students from the country's most prestigious colleges by a leading Indian newspaper in 2002 found that Hitler was their third most requested ideal leader of India, behind independence leader Mahatma Gandhi and the country's then-Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee.

A pizza and cake chain in New Delhi, A Slice of Italy, sells a cake called "one for the Hitler," featuring Hitler's face. Last year the cake was sold with a swastika on the cap and was described as a children's cake over the phone. Last month there was no swastika.

"It's not common, but it's exciting, madam," a worker at the pizza chain told one woman who asked about the cake in November. "Order it."



`Hitler, the Supremo'

In Gujarat, textbooks have praised Hitler's leadership abilities, fascism and the Nazi movement. Until recently, state social studies textbooks have featured chapters on "Hitler, the Supremo" and "Internal Achievements of Nazism." The textbooks have been changed slightly this year but still barely mention the Holocaust.

This is the same state where Hindu-led riots led to the deaths of more than 1,000 Muslims in the spring of 2002. Several investigations blamed the state government, led by a Hindu-right political party, for permitting the riots.

Bal Thackeray, the founder of Shiv Sena, a Hindu fundamentalist party based in Mumbai, has openly praised Hitler and said he was willing to wipe out troublemaking Muslims. Shiv Sena's secretary, Anil Desai, said Thackeray liked Hitler's leadership abilities, not his attempts to exterminate the Jews.

Thackeray likes "the way Hitler pushed the things in his time," Desai said.

Hitler's autobiography, "Mein Kampf," flies off the shelves of many bookstores. The Bandra branch of Crossword, a major bookstore chain in the Mumbai area, sells 35 copies a week.

At the Rhythm House in downtown Mumbai, one of the city's oldest and most popular video stores, the documentary "Hitler a Career" is sold in the video section for children.

"Why are people buying it? Because they like him," store clerk Maqbool Sayed said. "If it was up to me, I would hide these. I wouldn't put them out at all."





My Reply:

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Kim Barker,

This is in regards to your hate filled article "Hitler the trendy tyrant". Let's start by saying that Hitler was a white German who would gladly have killed all Indians if he had half a chance. In fact when Jews fled the horrendous antisemitism of Europe, they found a safe haven in India. Hindus and Jews have always got along well. The same cannot of said of Germans and Jews or Europeans and Jews.

Statements like "Those who believe strongly in the caste system of India also may like Hitler's eugenics and race beliefs. " comes out of ignorance. The word caste is a Portuguese word that does not accurately reflect the tribal diversity of India. The Aryan race theories were created by white British imperialists who wanted Indians to feel inferior about themselves, and to credit their cultural achievements to outsiders.

In summary, the whole Hitler issue is an internal issue of the European race. Indians are not responsible for what happened to Jews, and in fact Indians and Jews have had an excellent relationship for hundreds of years.


Joe Flanders

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<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='color:red'>China becoming another imperialist power?</span>
By M.V. Kamath

History repeats itself in strange ways. Towards the end of the 18th century Britain was not much of a power. As late as 1870, Florence Nightingale, the nurse who made history, was to write: “Bombay at this time is healthier than London, Calcutta though not healthier than London is healthier than Manchester or Liverpool!” But it was in business and was spreading out from as early as the 17th century.

The East India Company came to India to indulge in trade and ended up as rulers. One wonders whether what Britain did in India is currently being repeated by China in Africa in another context. China started with wishing to gain influence in Africa and has so far done a great deal to win it over. It started with supporting African liberation movements in the 1950s and 1960s, helped build railways for the newly independent countries, bringing in Chinese labour in large number to complete the jobs undertaken. It even encouraged African students to study in China and did whatever possible to win African favour. Now, it has opted for trade with Africa on a massive scale.

In a way, it is a reversal of the British or even European role in Asia where Europeans came to trade and set up their factories whether in India, Indonesia or South East Asia, only to end up as rulers. In the present case, the Chinese approach to Africa is the other way round. It went there to seek influence but is now actively engaged in raising trade possibilities. Trade between China and Africa was around $ 3 billion in 1995. By 2005, in just about a decade, that trade has risen to $ 32 billion. By any reckoning this is a steep rise. It is competing with the European Union(EU) and the United States in a determined way. EU-Africa trade is declining but China seems determined to push it further down. Beijing seems to be in a hurry. It has one advantage over the European Union and that is that it can produce goods at a much cheaper price. In this matter no European nation can compete with China and it has been pushing its influence with a determination which is awesome.

Early this year in January, China’s Foreign Minister, Li Zhaoxing, “swept through West Africa” to use a phrase originating in a British journal. Three months, later, in April, President Hu Jintao visited Nigeria, Morocco and Kenya. He was followed in June by Prime Minister, Wen Jiabao who, in turn visited seven other countries in the continent. It has been a kind of “diplomatic invasion” never before seen. In the first week of November, China hosted more than thirty African leaders for the first-ever Sino-African Summit in Beijing. The Indian media, it would seem, has not taken all these Chinese moves seriously. It had better. Meanwhile, State-owned Chinese companies have also been active.

Around 1991 there were 300 Chinese living in Zambia. Now, according to one guess, there are over 3,000. What are they doing there? Buying and selling, that’s what. The Chinese are in the civil engineering and construction business. Having done well in Zambia, the Chinese are apparently planning to move to neighbouring Angola and Congo. <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Primarily, China’s eyes are on raw materials available in Africa, just as European eyes in the 17th century onwards were on spices in the East, with a foreign exchange reserve of $ 1 trillion—an unbelievable figure-China is spreading out to buy raw materials to sustain its growing economy, anything from minerals, farm products, and timber to oil and more especially oil. For China, oil is what it needs most to sustain its industrial development. </span>

According to the The Economist (October 28), China alone is responsible for 40 per cent of the global increase in oil demand between 2000 and 2004. Just as the European powers, especially Britain and France and later the United States kept a keen eye on middle eastern oil, China is now coveting African oil to sustain its rapidly growing industry, even while word is going round that it would like to co-opt India in its oil exploration efforts.

CNOOC, a state-owned Chinese company, paid in January $ 2.7 billion to get a minority interest in a Nigerian oilfield. Nigeria, needless to say, is Africa’s biggest oil-producer. China, similarly, has secured exploration rights in four Nigerian sites. And a Chinese company—obviously state-owned, has become a partner in local firms, exploring oil in several blocks in Angola.

<span style='color:red'>What on earth is India doing? </span>Angola, incidentally, has now overtaken Saudi Arabia as China’s biggest single supplier of oil. China seems to be spreading its tentacles to other African states such as Sudan, Equatorial Guinea, Gabon and Congo Brazzaville. The last named already sells a third of its annual output to Chinese refiners.

The Economist provides even more fascinating information on China’s interest in Africa. China, for example has now taken over 70 per cent of Sudan’s exports, compared to 10 per cent a decade ago. In mid-1990s, Burkina Faso hardly sold anything to China. Now it sells a third of its exports to China, mostly cotton. Chinese companies are building bridges, roads and other civic amenities in Angola and as payment is taking oil. Smart deal. With its firm foothold in Africa, China is undercutting scale of European goods, whether it is textiles of plastics or electronic equipment to a point that the developed world is sitting up. It has to, considering that by now China has invested as much as $ 150 million in Sudan alone.

As The Economist put it: “When American and Canadian oil companies packed their bags there, China quickly stepped in, drilling wells and building pipelines and roads.” In the circumstances, one can well understand the warning put up by The Economist to the effect that what is happening is “a warning to Africans that this new interloper in their continent is no more altruistic than its predecessors”—presumably meaning the French, the Belgians and the British. They, all went to Asia first to trade; then, to protect their trade, they got into politics. And to safeguard their politics, they sought to take over power. The United States is as much guilty of such behaviour in Latin America as elsewhere. Hasn’t China learn anything from history? Haven’t the African nations? But then, does it matter? All powerful nations, in their own way, are alike. Politics and amorality go hand in hand. One suspects that they are even compelled to, by time and circumstances.

In the past competition between trading nations often led to war as between France and England or England the Netherlands until each nation carved out its exclusive geographic boundaries to keep others out of bounds. Does one see a repetition of the old game? Is what we are witnessing a re-run of history in a different context? One can only wait and see. Meanwhile China is marching ahead. True, as of now its share of African trade is only around 2.3 per cent of its total trade. But one must begin somewhere, shouldn’t one? And who knows where it will end? Power is always beguiling.

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...pid=161&page=22
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Should not India work actively for trade and influence in East asia, and Latin America?