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Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-04-2009
The jews vilify Jesus, the prophet of the conqueror. The conqueror must intervene. The natives vilify the sepoy, the agent of the Empire. The Empire must intervene on behlaf of the sepoy.
The crime of the native is that he has been normed as deviant.. The Aryan is the Normed Indian..
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Guest - 06-04-2009
Dhu ji: Thanks. I will sift :-) You use the word "normative" few times. What does it mean? I found this in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative But a simpler gyan is deeply appreciated.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - acharya - 06-04-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The jews vilify Jesus, the prophet of the conqueror. The conqueror must intervene. The natives vilify the sepoy, the agent of the Empire. The Empire must intervene on behlaf of the sepoy.
<b>
The crime of the native is that he has been normed as deviant.. The Aryan is the Normed Indian..</b>
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BRILLIANT!
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 06-04-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-Swamy G+Jun 3 2009, 09:22 PM-->QUOTE(Swamy G @ Jun 3 2009, 09:22 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Dhu ji: Thanks. I will sift :-) You use the word "normative" few times. What does it mean. I found this in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normative But a simpler gyan is deeply appreciated.
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The dictionary meaning is used in the sense of ideal behavior i.e. normatized. In simple terms socially engineered to conform to that idealized behavior.
Eg INC supporters are normatized pseudo liberal Hindus.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - acharya - 06-04-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The jews vilify Jesus, the prophet of the conqueror. The conqueror must intervene. The natives vilify the sepoy, the agent of the Empire. The Empire must intervene on behlaf of the sepoy.
The crime of the native is that he has been normed as deviant.. The Aryan is the Normed Indian..
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I want one para for each sentence you have here
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-05-2009
para 1
-The crime of the native is that he has been normed as deviant.
-The native can be immediately problematized through the device of normativity.
-That is, normativity is an instant demonizing mechanism.
-The "narratives" of a normative culture "are powerless to teach"
-That is, they cannot instruct.
-Propaganda does not instruct.
-It only operates at surface level to mold the actions of the mass, indeed it creates the "masses"
-This is not true in a non-normative heathen nonideological culture
-The normative culture transforms the practices and traditions of the heathen culture into instances of propaganda, into ideology.
-Ideological differences are posited between the Canaanite native and his ideologically normed alterego, the Israelite- the agent of ideological-historical change.
-The native culture is instantly problematized.
-Once this narrative has been imposed it must be given an ad hoc historical explanation and justification.
-This is a point reinterpretation in time. eg obviously, there were no prophets to British rule.
-The british rule invented prophets to their rule by backprojection through history.
-This is the interpretative history paradigm of herodotus which has been deemed as problematic by the ghent group in the article 'do indians need a past or a history'.
-the native is innocent
-but he has been problematized as deviant by the colonial power by applying normativity.
-the native has been turned into a criminal
-all land belongs to the colonizer, the sovereign, and the monotheist deity _by principle and through theology_.
-The Lord God is a Creator and therefore owns his Creation
-the believer has, in turn, thus been apportioned the land by the act of believing.
-the nonbeliever native is instantly turned into a criminal occupier of native land by the act of nonbelieving
-the heathen does not own his creation by the act of creating.
-transubstantiation is the act of instantly transforming, a miracle
-but it is actually a problematizing act
-the individual? is bidden to consume his messiah, his deliverer
-he is made to turn himself into a criminal and this is leverage
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 06-05-2009
I am wondering is the ref to the Magi in the Jesus story is a ref to the role of the Persians in changing the Jews during the captivity?
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-05-2009
There are just too many captivities, Assyrian captivity, Egyptian captivity, Babylonian-Persian captivity; North, South, and East; this points toward revisionist timeline. Daniel made a fool of Darius and had him persecute his own soldiers to be consumed in the Lion's den. Darius acknowledged the Lord God of Daniel. Listen to a Christian preacher describing Daniel as he outwits the enemy monarch. The Persians are damned with faint praise, so to speak.
Judaism is modeled upon the colonizer's enemy, the Persians .....(as they are portrayed by the Colonizer's agent Herodotus). The modeleing is given by Wesselius. The geopolitical setting by Gmirkin.
Christianity is modeled upon the (hidden) Colonizer ......(by the agent Josephus).
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-06-2009
I have uploaded a 15:40 minute interview with Atwill. I will add to the site. It is a more compact synopsis that the Channer interview. The Author discusses the Cannibal Mary episode which seals the identification.
http://rapidshare.com/files/241360375/Track_1.mp3.html (22 MB)
http://www.esnips.com/doc/179d4284-b13b-4f...b0fb4/Interview (22 MB)
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-06-2009
What are the possible masks for the colonizer?
1. Bede Griffiths ( inculturation )
2. Agnivesh ( sepoy )
3. Kalki as a fulfillment of the Colonizing entity ( Colonizer in guise of enemy future )
4. Asoka as (eg) Alexander in disguise, in fact Asoka is a defective version of Alexander ( Colonizer in guise of enemy past )
Judaism is type 4 and 2. Colonizer's sepoy in guise of Colonizer's enemy Xerxes. Manmohan in guise of Shivaji.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-06-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"Peace given to the world" is a very frequent inscription on the Roman medals.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - acharya - 06-08-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-dhu+Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM-->QUOTE(dhu @ Jun 3 2009, 08:55 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->The jews vilify Jesus, the prophet of the conqueror. The conqueror must intervene. The natives vilify the sepoy, the agent of the Empire. The Empire must intervene on behlaf of the sepoy.
The crime of the native is that he has been normed as deviant.. The Aryan is the Normed Indian..
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Heresy is another concept used in the west to spread the religion.
It creates an origin which is Christianity and all else follows from it
http://www.scribd.com/doc/416127/Hinduism-a-Christian-Heresy
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-08-2009
They are creating prophets for the benevolent Anglo(Am) rule. The natives are described as persecuting and killing their own prophets. Aryans are one such prophets.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-10-2009
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Re: AIT and 'Seven Daughters of Eve"
Actually, We should look at the antiquity of AIT in Christology.
Well, their first claim is that heathens of East were Noah
Descendants. Thats why our missionary brethern in the EAST are on
Sacred mission to proselytize their missing NOAH DISCENDANTS of EAST.
Theese Noah Discendants are ARYANS.
Now, Christologists changed their dress due to robbed wealth from
Americas, India etc. What is that New Dress. That is Secularism, The
Age of Reason. The Same Christology tribe Started Indology with
unrecognizable cloths. They exported Theology in the guise of
Universal frame work in Humanties, History, Law.
This is the secular history of any colonized nation from africa to
America via India.
1. First, Divide that country in race wise into two.
2. One of the above race is from Europe, and invaded native land in
prehistoric times.
LOL<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-12-2009
The possibility of imperial propaganda can be dismissed as an instance of individual hypocrisy, since the agent or exemplar is identical to any given principle; violating any principle just transforms the agent into a hypocrite and the system is saved from the allegation of propagandistic intent.
The heathen's allegations of systematic propaganda are, in contrast, dismissed as examples of hypocrisy. And the heathen's culture is itself turned into a prime examples of both hypocrisy and propaganda....???
here is part of my conversation with a christian:
--------------
<i>You guess wrong. Islam mixes spiritual warfare and physical warfare; Bush mixed Christianity with American oil industry interests. <B>Different things. </B>Moreover, the first Christians were all Jewish, like the Apostles. Christians must always obey Caesar (the State), unless Caesar challenges God's law and/or tries to coherce them into disobeying God. This explains Christian martyrdom by Roman hands all through the empire. You can't deny history.</i>
Listen, idiot, <B>I am making a comparision as to how propaganda of peace and war statements can emanate out of the same entity</B>..... Bush was going to libearte Iraq and bring peace to iraq through war. Christianity is same type f egopolitical ploy. since you a christian braindead, <B>you can only see hypocrisy where propaganda is the real operandus.</B>
Listen you idiot. Getting Jews to consume their own messiah and getting jews to beat the begeesus out of their messiah was a techinique of getting absolute submission from the judean enemy. Jesus was patterned after the destoryer of jerusalem titus flavius. Jesus "predicted" the destruction and titus "fulfilled" the deed. connect the dots...
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-12-2009
1. Association proves nothing: a banana is yellow as a lemon is, but they're different. 2. Bush was not a Christian, but only claimed to be one so to gain votes. For instance, he believed that there are many ways for humans salvation, which is biblically wrong: Christ is THE way. Since I'm a Christian thinker, free from the deadness of sin, I can see Bush's hypocrisy in claiming to be a Christian. Also, I see your fallacies.
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For course they are different you idiot, the benign mask is not the same as the horrid face of empire.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 06-12-2009
The thread gets a lot of hits and newcomers. So to ensure they get the drift its important to give the message in simple clear words and not use argot.
We should write for oursleves, for the members and most importantly for the lurkers to be effective.
Thanks, ramana
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-21-2009
Indic strived for a context-free grammar while the "ethics" was highly contextual.
The exact opposite is seen in the "west" where intertextuality is the base presumption and the ethics was non-contextual.
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-21-2009
John Hudson quotes NS Rajaram!!
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16425596/What-Go...terary-Satires-
Good to see our indian analysts vigilant enough to make the right connections
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->For instance, the Hindu historian N. S. Rajaram wrote that :
<i>"The Jesus of Christianity never existed! ....In summary, the whole of Christianity, including the story of the crucifixion of Jesus is a later fabrication, created to gain support of the Roman Empire...........{which} fabricated large parts of the New Testament to destroy the Jews of Palestine who were in a constant state of rebellion against the Romans. The mythical Jesus was created to facilitate this process. The fact that the Gospels are a late fabrication by authors who were agents of the Roman Empire becomes clear upon examining their language and content."<b> N. S. Rajaram Christ and Christianity in the Year 2000, </b>Sword of Truth, January 8, 1999.
</i>
Hindu, Buddhist and Islamic have all had their voices ignored in the States...<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 06-22-2009
On the contrary, this is a powerful approach to dismissing Christianity's truth claims as western state propaganda. Christianity emerged as a false belief system among heathen traditions; it is inconsequential for Hindus whether Christianity emerged from the Mideast or in the Western Empire. Regardless, we are grappling with the entity as it is today. For the Christians, however, these findings completely destroy the credibility of their claims. Jesus is the prophet of the Empire. Jesus "predicts" the destruction of the Temple within one generation and this is "fulfilled" by the Emperor Titus Flavius. Jesus is the personal prophet of Titus Flavius.
Also, Christians cannot claim now that the Empire later took over the peaceful teachings of Christianity and distorted them with imperialistic tendencies. The imperialism of Christianity is inbuilt. All the profuse professions of "peace" and "liberation" are simply instances of colonial euphemism.
These researches need extended discussion among Hindus.