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BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-03-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='03 August 2011 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1312313945' post='112347']
What is the real problem in Karanataka BJP? Why does Yeddy govt repeatedly have to face trust votes even after winning the elections? Is the party divided on his leadership? So whats the real story here?
[/quote]
The brahmin Ananth Kumar is too ambitious and wants to be CM
Yeddy foolishly allowed the corrupt Reddy brothers to grow too much
Yeddy foolishly did petty corruption snd caught attention of Lokayuth
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-03-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='03 August 2011 - 01:17 AM' timestamp='1312313945' post='112347']
What is the real problem in Karanataka BJP? Why does Yeddy govt repeatedly have to face trust votes even after winning the elections? Is the party divided on his leadership? So whats the real story here?
[/quote]
Anantha Kumar was interested in CM seat and had backing of corrupt mining Reddy brothers.
With instability helps corruption and Reddy brothers were just minting money at they cost of destabilizing its own party. Plus they were using Congress and Governor.
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-03-2011
[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='03 August 2011 - 08:52 AM' timestamp='1312341299' post='112348']
The brahmin Ananth Kumar is too ambitious and wants to be CM
Yeddy foolishly allowed the corrupt Reddy brothers to grow too much
Yeddy foolishly did petty corruption snd caught attention of Lokayuth
[/quote]
Sometimes the Children do things that become their father's albatross and this has happened in the case of Yeddy. As GS says it is quite a small favour compared to the Himalayan corruption that Sonia and her entire mafia in the cabinet and govt. are doing. YSR and Karunanidhi had looted Andhra and Tamilnadu like the Bhemaani Sultans. The problem is that the Indian media is a vassal of Sonia Congress and they and the Nakshathreyan Governor played enormous mischief against Yeddy. However Yeddy stood to his ground and fought very well. The Central BJP as Sonia's appendage instead of ignoring the media pulled Yeddy down. Yeddy could have played a Vaghela and he didn't. Many Congressmen have done it and the recent one is the CM of West Bengal. Was it Yeddy's mistake that he didn't rebel even in the face of the media predicting an impending split? Time will tell.
However it was the turn of the Central BJP to engineer the split. The central BJP tried hard to keep Yeddy out by supporting someone whom Yeddy doesn't. Thankfully it didn't work because the entire 'Saadhu' janas of Karnataka have thrown their weight behind the outgoing CM.
When the next parliamentary election takes place it will be all Yeddy's men from Karnataka!
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-03-2011
GS, Is it possible to say Anantha Kumar wants to be CM and is destabilizing without ref to his caste?
Also was central leadership forced to take action in order to obtain free hand to act elsehwere or is just plain Kalidasa move? If they took no notice the Governor could have created a new scene by dismissing Yeddy based on Hegede report.
I do agree there was lot of faction fighting in Karnataka which doesn't give hope or confidence in the way things are going on in the BJP.
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-03-2011
Gowda elected CM in Karnataka
So they did go for a divison despite being told not to do that. Lets see how things pan out. The voting is quite close 60 plus to 50 plus.
Most likely there will be problems in governance unless the defeated faction accepts it and works together.
BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-04-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='03 August 2011 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1312384668' post='112357']
GS, Is it possible to say Anantha Kumar wants to be CM and is destabilizing without ref to his caste?
Also was central leadership forced to take action in order to obtain free hand to act elsehwere or is just plain Kalidasa move? If they took no notice the Governor could have created a new scene by dismissing Yeddy based on Hegede report.
I do agree there was lot of faction fighting in Karnataka which doesn't give hope or confidence in the way things are going on in the BJP.
[/quote]
Ananthakumar wants to be CM, but is too greedy to realise that South India is out of bounds for a brahmin CM.
Brahmins are only 5% of electorate , vs 20% for Lingayats and 15% for Vokkaligas
Historically, the Lingayats, 20% of electorate have been anti-brahmin for centuries.
The Lingayats dont use brahmin priests, they have their own priests called Jangams
Lingayats dont follow vedas, they follow vachanas by Basaveswara
Contrast to greedy brahmin Anantha kumar is the responsible brahmin VS.Acharya
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-04-2011
Thanks. BTW the Pakis in UK want a statue for Basveswara! They will puke if they know who is power in Basveswara country.
BTW check on him as to his origins too!
What does Vokkaligas mean? I have seen Vokkalinga also to describe them.
Are they also Shaivites?
BJP Future - 7 - acharya - 08-05-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='04 August 2011 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1312477768' post='112366']
Thanks. BTW the Pakis in UK want a statue for Basveswara! They will puke if they know who is power in Basveswara country.
BTW check on him as to his origins too!
What does Vokkaligas mean? I have seen Vokkalinga also to describe them.
Are they also Shaivites?
[/quote]
They think that he was anti Hindu and anti brahmin
They dont know that they worship Linga
BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-05-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='04 August 2011 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1312477768' post='112366']
Thanks. BTW the Pakis in UK want a statue for Basveswara! They will puke if they know who is power in Basveswara country.
BTW check on him as to his origins too!
What does Vokkaligas mean? I have seen Vokkalinga also to describe them.
Are they also Shaivites?
[/quote]
A large group of Lingayats have been claiming to follow a separate non-Hindu religion,
namely Veerashaivism
Vokkaligas are followers of Adi-Chunchunagiri mutt, a vedic shaivite tradition and they use brahmin priests
and they cremate their dead.
whereas, Lingayats follow a non-vedic shaivite tradition and dont use brahmin priests and bury their dead
Interestingly, Lingayats are pure veg, whereas Vokkaliga eat mutton and chicken and fish
The Deendar Anjuman, now head-quartered in Pakistan, tried to convert the Lingayats to islam,
hoping to exploit the anti-brahmin traditions of the Lingayats
The UK-Pakistanis are trying to detach Lingayats from Hinduism
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-06-2011
Is a reformer truly a good thing in Indian soceity especially when they leave the society divided? Every great reformer in India was followed by a successful invasion two to three hundred years later. And most reformers are temporary phenomenon as they gain divine status in a few decades after their death and their following becomes cult.
What imapct were these reformers on politicial history of medeival India? Did their reforms strenghten or weaken the state structures facing external therat? No one has studied this aspect.
Basveswara was one of many contemprary Shaivaism reformers in India from 8th century to 13th century.
Maschindra, Gorakhnath of the Nath tradition,and Baseveswara etc are in this period. We then see the growth of the Bhakti movement and its adherents in the latter period.
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-06-2011
I disagree with this Lingayats do not use Brahmins as priests and they do not follow vedas etc. Lingayat is a widespread culture across Karnataka and AP and it is not one caste and several castes are part of this shiava section. Castes are due to occupation and this sectionism is due to practicing religion in a particular way.
Though Lingayats are politically savvy and are maintaing a groupish structure in Karnataka (I bow my head with great respect to Kannadigas for that) even in 2011, it is actually not restricted to Karnataka. It is there even in AP. Lingayat culture is significant in AP brahmins, Reddys and Kapus. Reddy brothers are not just like that in BJP.
Coming to Lingayatism in AP brahmins, there are basically two sections one being Niyogis and the other called as Vaidikis. There are several subsections but occupationally Niyogis took administrative/ministerial portions of the kingdoms and Vaidikis the vedic and ritualistic occupations. There is a subsection in Niyogis called as Lingadharas (who wears Linga in their yagnopavetha and mangalasutra). This subsection does not maintain it like a sub-caste. They marry other Niyogis etc. Similarly in Vaidikis, there is a sub section called as Aaradhyas and they also carry linga. The funny part is Other Niyogis marry Lingadharas and Lingadharas marry Aaradhyas and Aaradhays marry Videekis. But Niyogis does not marry Vaidikees. (This is all traditionally and not strict)
Jangams is also a subsect of Brahmins. Just calling them as non-Brahmin will not cut ice and is a Vaishnavaite conspiracy <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />Anyway this is OT for BJP thread. I will write the Why Yeddi is targeted seperately.
BJP Future - 7 - shamu - 08-07-2011
[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='04 August 2011 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1312471049' post='112365']
Ananthakumar wants to be CM, but is too greedy to realise that South India is out of bounds for a brahmin CM.[/quote]
Not true <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> TN CM is Amma.
Kerala had EMS Namboothirippad as CM
BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-08-2011
[quote name='shamu' date='07 August 2011 - 12:59 PM' timestamp='1312701692' post='112391']
Not true <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> TN CM is Amma.
Kerala had EMS Namboothirippad as CM
[/quote]
Amma got in because she was mistress of MGR.
If MGR had promoted in ADMK, some other mistress like Manjula, Latha, Radha Saluja, Saroja Devi etc, they would have
become CM.
Keep in mind, the only advantage to brahmins of Amma is that she cracks down on anti-brahmin rowdyism
Even Amma cant do anything about 70% anti-brahmin quota.
Nambudiripad was a brahmin rejecting , beef eating commie.
A standard brahmin like Rajaji cant get become CM in south India for some decades
BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-08-2011
Sadanand Gowda as CM is master-stroke
He is nominee of Yeddy, so BJP gets the 20% Lingayat vote
He is a Vokkaliga and will decimate Vokkaliga Congress ( SM.Krishna )
and JD-S ( Deve Gowda )
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-08-2011
BSY is new type of BJP leader with a different inclusive strategy. Hence he was edged out by the Dilli billi system. However he still retains primacy in Karnataka.
The Reddy brothers lost out in this farcas and shuffle.
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-08-2011
[quote name='G.Subramaniam' date='08 August 2011 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1312779624' post='112407']
A standard brahmin like Rajaji cant get become CM in south India for some decades
[/quote]
This is only true for TN and not all states of South. Gundu Rao and Ramakrishna Hegde ruled Karnataka for several years. Both are brahminical <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> brahmins. Future of Brahmin CMs is bright in Karnataka as they are about 7% of KA population. Even in this round VS Acharya was one of the considered one.There is no rampant anti-brahminism in Karnataka and AP (though it has some glimpses). In AP there is no significant politician from Brahmins after the exit of PVNR.
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-08-2011
[quote name='ramana' date='08 August 2011 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1312819032' post='112412']
BSY is new type of BJP leader with a different inclusive strategy. Hence he was edged out by the Dilli billi system. However he still retains primacy in Karnataka.
The Reddy brothers lost out in this farcas and shuffle.
[/quote]
Yeddi is a visionary and does not see BJP as some Lingayat party. Having a base is different from converting it to a single social grouping. Had it been Shettar replacing Yeddi then BJP would be no diffrent from JD(S). He insisting on Shobha or SG is making sure that Vokalliga is made his replacement. He honestly wanted to reward SG because it was the hardwork of Yeddi, SG and Ananthkumar combo that brought BJP to where it is now in KA. Ananthkumar has gone mad (through unnecessary aquaintences) though he deserves same as SG and Yeddi.
Yeddi, Modi, Chauhan etc. are visionaries where they are building a new BJP using the ground rules of India while keeping the Sanathan Dharma based nationalism in the background. That is the way forward for BJP to become pan-India outfit.
The BJP that was before these mid level leaders is based on pure Takleef. It is the Takleef against Muslims around you. It was the Takleef because Ram temple at Ayodhya was not yet built. It was the Takleef against Hyd Muslims because they are getting free Haj. They are all after issues which are temporary and not building the bases that will have longevity. They destroyed UP with this approach. Rajnath Singh and Varun Gandhi type blabberers can only bring few seats in Western UP.
Takleef is useful only as a catalyst but not as a base to build and grow the party. India's bottomline is again pride of its estwhile warrior classes and its erswhile artisan classes. The party that can balance atleast two to three sections from Brahmins, banias, warriors, artisans, scheduled castes and vanvaasis will only have the ability to rule the nation. There is a crass-crap leadership in BJP who still behave like when they are 2 seat party and assuming that they can become 200 seater with the same type of politics, attitude and approach.
Yeddi survived finally though he is not the CM of KA which is a heartening news for those who want a realistic national alternative to Congress party.
There is more rust to BJP's central structure than what we read in news.
It has to go back to NDA rule. There are certain intel aspects that BJP created during their rule that is haunting them. The stuff that Digvijay Singh exaggerates are some what true. ABV-LKA admin created private vigilance armies to infiltrate the terror sleeper cells of India as they were unable to create an effective offical fight against local modules. It would have been a non-issue had NDA returned to power.
From 2004 onwards, UPA has created a structure of blackmail, infiltrate and destroy BJP using these aspects. LKA types are being blackmailed and being infiltrated with characters such as Sudhendra Kulkarni. Even RSS is going through a similar situation.
Exploiting the checkmate situation of top leadership, some blatant hafta collectors has moved into primary positions of BJP/RSS. The classic example being Rajnath Singh.
Underneath this blackmailed ones and hafta collecting ones, a third type who makes deals with vested interests have cropped up. These are the types that you hear in Nira Radia tapes.
Now it is a mince meat for INC. They want to remove Yeddi and Modi they can get what they want using Advani types. If they want Rajnath Singh and Varun Gandhi types to shout as though they are the real Hindutva keepers they can do it. Polarization of Muslims to INC can be triggered using these types via BJP. They can use Anantkumars, Sushmas etc,. to do their bidding on 2G scandals, mining scandals and policies such as Telangana approaches.
In summary entire BJP's day to day strategies as an opposition can be driven using corrupt methods by the Congress party.
This can only be defeated if the Dilli billi BJP types are thrown out by the state leaders of BJP. Nitin Gadakari is doing his best though he is still not up to the mark. We have to waitout 2012 as it is being predicted that Modi will move to center post Gujarat elections.
BJP Future - 7 - G.Subramaniam - 08-09-2011
Sadananda Gowda is likely a new Modi
From tehelka - Those who are skeptical remember his reaction to the events of 1997 Puttur riots, in which Hindutva mobs went on a rampage pelting stones at Muslim shops and homes after a college going Brahmin girl was killed by a Muslim boy scorned by her rejection. ââ¬ÅHe (Gowda) replied coolly. He said ââ¬Ëwe cannot do much when people vent their anger. It is a collective anguish that was expressed in Putturââ¬â¢. In 2002, the same reasoning took the lives of nearly 2000 people,ââ¬Â says an Udupi based writer and activist who interviewed Sadananda Gowda after the riots.
Another activist from Karnataka Forum for Communal Harmony remembers the instance when Sadananda Gowda had to be sent out of a police station when Bajrang Dal accompanied by Gowda asked for a young couple to be arrested. ââ¬ÅIn local parlance, the boy is usually from the ââ¬Ëother communityââ¬â¢ and the girl is a Hindu. Tendency of the Hindu-right to attack couples was rampant then as it is today. This MLA asked the police to arrest the couple for disturbing the social harmony
BJP Future - 7 - ramana - 08-09-2011
Tehelka is hardly a good source for info about BJP.
BJP Future - 7 - Guest - 08-10-2011
Didn't Tehelka bring out the blatant corruption of George Fernandez and Bangaru Laxman, the Dalit President of the BJP? BJP atleast temporarily let them go unlike the Congress.
Anyway I wouldn't hang Tehelka for this (crime!).