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What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - Printable Version +- Forums (https://india-forum.com) +-- Forum: Indian History & Culture (https://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Indian History (https://india-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=10) +--- Thread: What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 (/showthread.php?tid=539) |
What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - HareKrishna - 01-02-2011 It is possible that paleolitic Europe was IJ . R1b is of neolithic expansion from Turkey. As archeology proves ,the expansion of agriculture was demic in western Europe and cultural(not demic) in Russia. For this reason R1a is older in Europe then R1b. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - ramana - 02-20-2011 General book on DNA and race theory Before the Dawn: Recovering the Lost History of Our Ancestors By Nicholas Wade Publisher: P e n g u i n 2007 | 320 Pages | ISBN: 014303832X , 1429513772 | Quote:Scientists are using DNA analysis to understand our prehistory: the evolution of humans; their relation to the Neanderthals, who populated Europe and the Near East; and Homo erectus, who roamed the steppes of Asia. Most importantly, geneticists can trace the movements of a little band of human ancestors, numbering perhaps no more than 150, who crossed the Red Sea from east Africa about 50,000 years ago. Within a few thousand years, their descendents, Homo sapiens, became masters of all they surveyed, the other humanoid species having become extinct. According to New York Times science reporter Wade, this DNA analysis shows that evolution isn't restricted to the distant past: Iceland has been settled for only 1,000 years, but the inhabitants have already developed distinctive genetic traits. Wade expands his survey to cover the development of language and the domestication of man's best friend. And while "race" is often a dirty word in science, one of the book's best chapters shows how racial differences can be marked genetically and why this is important, not least for the treatment of diseases. This is highly recommended for readers interested in how DNA analysis is rewriting the history of mankind. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - HareKrishna - 02-20-2011 Map that show that europeans are in majority neolithics from Turkey. The map of R1b variance. ![]() http://rokus01.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/balaresque_2010_r1b-variance.jpg What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - G.Subramaniam - 02-21-2011 White skin pigmentation is due to mutations in SLC24A5 and SLC45A2, both these mutations happened within the last 12000 years What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 06-05-2011 [url="http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-story-of-our-origins"]http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/living/the-story-of-our-origins[/url] Quote:In fact, much of the genetic evidence seems to suggest a South Asian origin for the F haplogroup. This haplogroup and its lines of descent account for perhaps 90 per cent of the male population in the world. Contrary to received wisdom, this would imply that much of the globe outside Africa was settled by outward migrations from South Asia dating back to over 50,000 years ago. Certainly, the distant origins of the modern European population seem to lie in South Asia, emphasising the crucial importance of this region in understanding the peopling of the globe. The sepoy mag carrying a story outlining much of what has already been discussed here. Of course, the remaining agenda is to impart a materialist basis to varna. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - G.Subramaniam - 06-06-2011 Dhu, regarding ASI and ANI, ANI is ancestral to CEU, but ASI is absent in Europe And some people claim that this vindicates AIT, since if it was OIT, then Europeans would have ASI What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 06-06-2011 Nothing will convince the deracinated. That is autosomal study, it correlates with well known N and M mtdna division seen in India itself. All Euro lines (U) are derived from R branch of N originating in arc from Pakistan to Bhutan and more probably in SEA where N diversity is greatest. No M is seen Europe. Unlike mtdna, Autosomal does not show descent; only some measure of isolation and inbreeding This division relects the peculiar initial settlement of Europe only at 40 K. Next seyylement of Europe was a proto gypsy one of R1a1- postglacial, holocene, neolithic, delineated as such by Underhill who discovered the group and by now well accepted and unchallenged. In all cases, these jokers try to "compare" the isolation of a founder group against the diversity of the originating group.. This is a normative monotheist mind trick where a false causality is projected by removing the time considerations and essentializing all categories. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - ramana - 06-06-2011 Dhu, can you take the material from this thread and its previous version and put all the relevant matter in an organized manner? The reason is we want to get it published. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 06-25-2011 G. Subramaniam, Ramana, Please see this comprehensive article by Dr. D. Priyadarshi: http://www.scribd.com/doc/44092576/Origin-of-Indo-European-languages-and-farming-Evidence-from-Human-Animal-and-plant-DNAs-and-from-linguistics http://t.co/C1L3SUT The author also presents new evidence for indian J being much older than that of ME-- this possibility was mentioned here in passing before since Oppenheimer considered it likely but confined it only to footnote. What is clear is that the most recent Indian expansion had components of both postglacial and Neolithic and was overwhelming. It is only European biblical prejudice which gives precedence to the ME in Neolithic. The rubric, of course, is to posit a value neutral ME as the progenitor rather than entertain the possibility of an overarching and generative dynamic emanating out of the subcontinent, ie an advance to the rear strategy. 'Breaking India' also consolidates much of this evidence and Rajiv Malhotra has forsaken his earlier stance that Indians are obsessed with opposing the AIT. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - Husky - 06-26-2011 ^^^^ All that is on topic. This is not. Quote:'Breaking India' also consolidates much of this evidence and Rajiv Malhotra has forsaken his earlier stance that Indians are obsessed with opposing the AIT.Never knew he thought/said that before. Well, "Indians' obsession" - as he called it then - is now his, it seems: his earlier blanket description and those it applies to ("Indians") can hardly have changed merely because he has suddenly chosen to throw in his opinion with the lot of those he so dismissively described earlier. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - HareKrishna - 06-27-2011 Yes ,it is time to accept that your language came from Ukraine,from bronze age cowboys. You are not alone. Turks accepted that their language came from Siberia,hungarians accepted that their language came from Ural mountains,algerians accepted that their language came from Arabia. Personally ,I have no problem in accepting the discoveries of scientists.They studied for years,unlike us. History is made of pain,blood,death, corruption,barbarity. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - acharya - 06-27-2011 [quote name='HareKrishna' date='27 June 2011 - 09:24 AM' timestamp='1309146381' post='112051'] Yes ,it is time to accept that your language came from Ukraine,from bronze age cowboys. You are not alone. Turks accepted that their language came from Siberia,hungarians accepted that their language came from Ural mountains,algerians accepted that their language came from Arabia. Personally ,I have no problem in accepting the discoveries of scientists.They studied for years,unlike us. History is made of pain,blood,death, corruption,barbarity. [/quote] Why not from Mars. Indian traditions are one of the oldest and there is also record of that traditions including language. So fake history is not what Indians want What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - shamu - 06-28-2011 Looks like people keep an illusion that if they keep on repeating a BS for a long time, others will accept that as truth. Ancient Indian "Panchatantra" has a story about this, and we knew this kind of strategies. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - HareKrishna - 06-30-2011 [quote name='acharya' date='28 June 2011 - 01:33 AM' timestamp='1309204548' post='112054'] Why not from Mars. Indian traditions are one of the oldest and there is also record of that traditions including language. So fake history is not what Indians want [/quote] Yes,the end justifies the means and nationalism is more important than truth or evidence. It doesn't matter hard evidence or lesser positive circumstantial evidence. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - shamu - 06-30-2011 Evidences are not conclusive and suites the propaganda that was based on linguistics. In fact, when Indians perform the genom tests, they see different results than those used for propaganda. Take it if that suites you, otherwise it is just garbage. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 07-01-2011 There was never any evidence for the "theory". It was, foremost, a theology to support the presence of a proto-Monotheism in India, since the absence of such would have collapsed Christianity. The various narratives of the Indians were selectively filtered to support this proto-Monotheism. And because Monotheism must necessarily have a singular origin as revelation, the (our) narratives were filtered as "history"; the relational clans were recast as normative Tribes (imagine calling Pandavas and Kauravas as tribes!!), and the learning potential of the narratives was denied as the narratives increasingly became a manifestation of ideology. The Aryans needed to be ushered in to support the presence of ââ¬Ëideologyââ¬â¢ (e.g., caste system) in Ancient India, which alone could ââ¬Åexplainââ¬Â all that was seen in India. And without ideology the Aryans could not be ushered in. That is, the theory itself was an ideology, and was thus embraced eagerly by the colonials and by both their ordinary and communist sepoys. In broader terms, it became colonial invective in the guise of theory, as well stated by the Romanian Cioran. A materialist basis was sought for the theory only as a secondary measure, as a vehicle for the motivated Aryan, the harbinger of Religion and Civilization. However, as soon as the ââ¬Åreligiousââ¬Â origin of the theory became clear, the theory collapsed in explanatory power. Knowledge of the colonial use of the theory was by itself not enough to collapse the theoryââ¬â¢s explanatory power. Correspondingly, in the modern domain, Saidââ¬â¢s critique against colonialism could be withstood but not that of Balagangadharaââ¬â¢s against religion Yet the various materialist justifications remained on their own. This was taken as an improvement in the ââ¬Åtheoryââ¬Â, as a shedding of unnecessary detail, and as an occam razor. This was the nihilist-socialist phase of the theory. It would have been the coup of all time, the joker and thief being crowned king. Yet Paramatma was on the side of the Hindus and denied the jokers even a semblance of credibility. It is unfortunate that a materialist explanation was needed in the end, yet there is no other that can smash the last vestige hope of the remnant nihilist. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 07-04-2011 [url="http://samvada.org/2011/news-digest/indian-cow-give-healthier-milk-research/"]Indian cow, buffalo breeds give healthier milk: Research[/url] Quote:New Delhi, June 26 (PTI) Indian cow and buffalo breeds possess a rich A2 allele gene that provides a better and healthier quality of milk than foreign breeds, according to a new study. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - Husky - 07-05-2011 ^ Relevant to thread topic. Quote:Indian cow and buffalo breeds possess a rich A2 allele gene that provides a better and healthier quality of milk than foreign breeds, according to a new study.A2/"Asian cows" milk being specifically 'good' for you vs "European cows" milk being 'bad' for you was already established quite some years ago. There's more research out there on this. <snip> What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - Husky - 07-05-2011 Reinstating one half of the stuff I snipped in the above post, because I found some links for support. Quote:Quote:Indian cow and buffalo breeds possess a rich A2 allele gene that provides a better and healthier quality of milk than foreign breeds, according to a new study.A2/"Asian cows" milk being specifically good for you vs "European cows" milk being bad for you was already established quite some years ago. And IIRC A1 milk is supposed to cause or exacerbate the onset of mental problems as well, not just cardiovascular disease. Don't quote me on this: only vaguely know about the matter as it was a cause of concern for my mother - she was trying to discourage us from drinking so much of the local milk (I tended to down many glasses on a good day). Things I didn't post with the above (edited them out before posting, since I wouldn't bet on my memory over this and, being unable to confirm at that time, didn't want to get called on it): 2. "African and Asian cows" => "A2" 3. Presence of A1 in cows (mainly European) were due to 'recent' mutations And point one is this line: 1. "IIRC A1 milk is supposed to cause or exacerbate the onset of mental problems as well, not just cardiovascular disease." Again, I recalled autism and schizofrenia (in that order), but I wouldn't bet money on my recollection. A simple web search gives some indicators that my memory wasn't off . The following is not an endorsement of anything (the links are certainly not verified). a) Mentions "African and Asian cows" <-> A2. And mentions of autism. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/GE0709/S00089.htm Quote:Shifting from A1 to A2 milk b ) autism and schizofrenia mentioned: http://thatpaleoguy.blogspot.com/2010/06/devil-in-milk.html Quote:Devil in the MilkRest at link. c) The following indicates that Europe's A1-milk producing cows developed afterwards. (Mutation. Etc.) Age of A1 milk cows: http://ideamine.wordpress.com/a1-and-a2-milk-cows/ Quote:A1 and A2 milk cowsAs tempted as I am to ask pertinent questions/make a remark at this point: note how I don't. d) More on mutation and age etc http://www.windsordairy.com/articles/a1-and-a2-milk.html Quote:Keith Woodford, Devil in the Milk author, correctly states that [color="#FF0000"]all European cattle breeds are relatively recent[/color] and the dairy breeds originally all belonged to beta-casein group A2. The point mutations that resulted in subgroups A1, B, and C (not just A1) all include an alteration of proline to histidine at the 67th amino acid in the 209 amino acid chain that is bovine beta-casein. These cows are referred to in shorthand as A1 in the text. These subgroups, but not A2 or A3, would be classified as ââ¬Åbadââ¬Â according to the theoretical ability to be cleaved and form beta-casomorphine-7, BCM7. Both A2 and A3 gene polymorphisms would then be considered ââ¬Ågoodââ¬Â and are called A2.(Again, note no comments.) There may be better links out there, I just picked the first that came by. There are other reasons - more pressing than "health" - as to why you don't want to be drinking western milk obtained by farms employing certain... dubious practices. (That's only if you care about the kind of four-footed animals that go Moo.) Their ethical standards in this are beyond anything most Hindus will be capable of abiding by. Not all farms, certainly. (Some are against it.) But there exists a practice that is becoming more prevalent now in the milking process/lifecycle in certain western countries (it's common/pioneered in America, I have been told) that is considered profitable and which one could reasonably describe as inhumane. What DNA Says About Aryan Invasion Theory -2 - dhu - 07-06-2011 Husky, please don't delete your comments. It is a sad misfortune that our best people are so careful with their words, and the "populace" have endure the never ending rants of the 4M. It is also likely that A1 was not a new mutation in the A2 wild type, but rather the wild type present in the Euro aurochs or at least a very old mutation in Europe, and that the A2 allele was a secondary introgression into europe. Such introgression is non-controversial for indic origin zebu in the case of India-to-Africa; we are only too familiar why such would not be considered in the case of Europe. Since diabetes is a survival trait (a starvation state wherein slow metabolism is maximized), it is very likely that A1 was selected in the euro auroch. Of course, such elementaries elude those for whom creationism is culture - much more occam razory to posit a single population; In this particular case, it was not possible to posit the bovine version of aboriginal (ie normatized) ANI in Europe and ASI in India, since the "mix" is in Europe itself. Thankfully, this autosomal has "survival value" and the direction of introgression is therefore clear. At any rate, even if this not a case is allele introgression, the (dde-domesticated) A1 mutation's circumscribed distribution also precludes a euro origin for A2. |