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Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 08-02-2011 This is a brief outline for the interim, still working on the full text. 1. The rebellion is deemed as emanating from an inimical and principled ideology, i.e., ideo-opposition to emperor worship, rather than just a rebellion. This is done at the level of the Academia of the Empire, and never by the native. Emperor worship is conflated with a false idol and this affords the opportunity to damn the resistance as intractable and principled ie unreasonable in its opposition. The Empire (the sepoy) also damns itself (the Empire) as reactionary (rather than principled) affording for further ambiguization. 2. The ideology level abstraction is amenable to being overtaken by the Empire in cloak i.e., by the "sepoy Revolutionary" or the idol-breaker; this is a social theory level abstraction ie ideology. 3. Following the nature of the beast that is ideology, the gaze of the idol-breaker is directed primarily to the native culture with a gratuitous and misleading contemporary edge which serves to cloak (eg the sepoy marxist damining the native with occasional damnations of the Empire). The mantle of revolutionary is thus donned by the Empire. 4. The sepoy Hasmonean, the Jew, followed Antiochus IV Epiphanes in same fashion as the sepoy Christians followed Titus. The orientalist sepoy assumed the mantle of the native resistance in both cases. OT is primarily concerned with damning the native culture in a revisionist history project (ie the Bristish educational project in India). The NT updates the scenario by damning the Jewish OT agents themselves, just as the elite (communist) sepoys of the American Empire damn the previous British Empire as divisive and "colonial". 5. The first ââ¬Åtaskââ¬Â of the colonizer is to ââ¬Åestablishââ¬Â a framework which allows for problematization; the ââ¬Ëconstructionââ¬â¢ of such a framework has a few overt requirements and many salient consequences. Oftentimes, the (secondary) consequences will be mistaken as the ââ¬Ërequiredââ¬â¢ features for operation of the systemââ¬â this is a necessary result of the bipartite ââ¬Ådesignââ¬Â (with a ââ¬Ëpseudo-dynamicââ¬â¢ between ââ¬Ëovert memeââ¬â¢ versus ââ¬Ëhidden memeââ¬â¢) of the system and ââ¬Åservesââ¬Â as an additional level of ambiguization (i.e., another level of false flag). Consequences which are commonly deemed as defining features include: 1. the interpretative singularity (the normatized interpretative background) of the (Will of) the ââ¬ÅOne True Godââ¬Â; 2. ââ¬Åintentionalityââ¬Â; The empirical evidence which we have is that these two ââ¬Åfeaturesââ¬Â emerge simply as a consequence of the pseudo-dynamic arrangement between the ââ¬Ëseen memeââ¬â¢ and the ââ¬Ëunseen memeââ¬â¢ (a diptych of 'the ideology' and 'the [necessary] mirror image image of the ideology'; the mirror image is the normed version and can alternate b/w the religious version and the secular version depending upon the user preference).[color="#0000FF"][sup][a][/sup][/color] The required feature which transforms any disparate set of entities into a specifically monotheist ââ¬Ësystemââ¬â¢ is simply the bipartite arrangement of a ââ¬Ëseen memeââ¬â¢ against an ââ¬Ëunseen memeââ¬â¢ (memes are standalone normed units [either socio-theory or theology] which change or rather ââ¬Åadvance/progress/regressââ¬Â by materialist ââ¬Åmutationââ¬Â in ââ¬Åunderstandingââ¬Â).[color="#0000FF"][sup][b][/sup][/color] The pseudodynamic inherent in the seen and unseen meme is a replacement notion for the (orthopraxic, experiential; true) ââ¬Ëdynamicââ¬â¢ seen with the heathens and overtakes in grotesque EWS simulacrum the characteristics of the heathen experiential reality. The ideology is always non-relational at the interaction level but is always dependent upon the construction of an (orientalist) mirror-image for the (aggrandizing) self-image; the ââ¬Ådualââ¬Â images are non-relational and thus in fight for elimination of the mirrored rival; this manifests invariably as totalitarianism; before a denoument becomes possible either in religious revelation or in materialist insignificance.[color="#0000FF"][sup][c][/sup][/color] Ideologies can are never bbe relational and thus they are totalitarian in scope (two eventualities are feared: 1. other rival total systems 2. the unseen mirror image; the relationship between ideologies is pseudodynamic; that is, they cannot inform each other). Another consequence of the framework is the elimination cultural diversity; this is a consequence of the disconnect between the seen and unseen portions of the diptych wherein one side will try to eliminate the other side, in hopes of becoming the Truth and forestalling a possible denouement. [color="#0000FF"][sup][a][/sup][/color] that is, the "aggrandizing" self-image (which is independent, declared, obvious, non-relational, non-negotiable, revelatory, and self-professed) always has an orientalist mirror image [which is irrational , etc]). One meme will be seen at any one time and never togethere; the two images/works are written in pseudo-relation to each other, i.e., they are not in conversation with each other. In other words, they are juxtaposed and in competition and not in dynamic relation (as seen in Dharma). [color="#0000FF"][sup][b][/sup][/color] in contrast to a ââ¬Ëdynamicââ¬â¢ which is relational and dependent upon othersââ¬â¢ concerns and is constituted solely ââ¬Åas a selfââ¬Â [in-so-far as it makes sense to speak of a ââ¬Ëselfââ¬â¢] in relation between 2 entities). Dharma is a dynamic and not a meme. [color="#0000FF"][sup][c][/sup][/color] revelation for the materialist is a denoument. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 08-02-2011 Brilliant. Please continue. Thanks, ramana Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 08-11-2011 Dhu, Any updates? Also there was a pdf in some thread with Hitler's notation about Bible being the only true history. Can some one link it again. The reason is need to show Nazism is new Christianity for Europe without its ME origins and show its continuity to Brevik's folly. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 08-12-2011 I have a draft and will post in a few hours, still in outline form, but at least it is a start. A stage of true idol (worship) precedes that of false idol (worship). This stage is extremely transitory and is almost never seen The interpretative frameworks are problematized into existence first, and find their resolution in a reconciliation rubric which is the One True God. I will need reviewers to go over this in detail. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 08-18-2011 Dhu< Passion of Greeks The Passion of the Greeks: Christianity and the Rape of the Hellenes [Hardcover] Evaggelos G. Vallianatos Quote:This book tells the secret story of the conflict between Greeks and Christians in late antiquity, especially from the fourth to the sixth centuries. It reveals how Christianity, assisted and funded by the Roman Empire, conspired to kill the Greeks whom it had dehumanized, branding them idolaters and pagans. Christianity s genocidal policies against the Greeks and their civilization almost succeeded; the "converted" Greeks were forced to abandon even their name and call themselves Romans from the fifth to the nineteenth centuries. Moreover, the Christianization of Greece was a catastrophe that precipitated the fall of Rome and engendered the dark ages of Western civilization. The Christians made Greece a cemetery, which quite unintentionally preserved the aftermath of their murder and genocide. At a time of religious conflict between Christianity and Islam, this book highlights the intolerant nature of monotheism. It tells a story never told before, opening the possibility we may get closer to the Greeks, understanding their passion and their achievements. The Greeks resisted Christianity for centuries. Like god Prometheus who gave them fire and the arts, so did the Greeks create our world through the Renaissance, which brought to light the remnants of Greek culture long ago buried by Christianity. Illustrated with two maps of Ancient Greece in color. Designed, printed, and bound in the USA. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-21-2011 <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> "The truth will out, 'tis said" (1) jesusneverexisted.com/ Quote:Faking the evidence The above links to: jesusneverexisted.com/josephus-etal.html#chrestos Quote:Update: The probing eye of scienceLinks to: www.textexcavation.com/documents/zaratacituschrestianos.pdf The Chrestianos Issue in Tacitus Reinvestigated by ErÃÂk Zara é 2009 (Why this matters: Tacitus is held up by christians as one of the "proofs" of historicity of jeebus. IIRC, NT biblical scholarship had been contending for some time that this was a later interpolation. Now comes the hard scientific proof that the convenient insert was indeed a forgery concocted late. "Why would christians do that?" Because christians had no proof for jeebus and no proof for so-called "early christians" and needed to manufacture this. Which they did: they inserted "proof" into more than one ancient source.) (2) Some biblical quotes featured on the main page. jesusneverexisted.com/ Biblical self-reference to christianism being a mindvirus: Quote:"For the weapons of our warfare are casting down imaginations ... and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ." The all-important definition of christian love from the bible Quote:Loving enemies? Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-23-2011 <img src='http://www.india-forum.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> As per the modern christian credo, their "jesus" is supposed to have died when he was either 33 or 38 years of age (the christians can't agree), or even somewhere in between. But bear in mind that that's what modern christians - removed by over a millennium from their fable - claim. Now here is what *famous* early christians (closer to jeebus' purported time) claimed about when jeebus was born and when he died: http://jesusneverexisted.com/orthodoxy.html What DID the Early Christians Believe? Quote:[color="#0000FF"]"Jesus still alive in the reign of Trajan" ââ¬â said 2nd century bishop Irenaeus. [Trajan[/color] [color="#800080"]reigned[/color] [color="#0000FF"]98-117 AD]Obviously, heathens reading the above can instantly work out that something's not adding up... But Christians had banned mathematics since it was "evil paganism" (i.e. Hellenistic). Being utter strangers to maths, they thus somehow (=miraculously, act of faith) arrived at "jeebus was therefore 33 to 38 years old when he died". Actually, there's a more logical reason than "miracles" behind how modern christianism came to that figure: bishop Irenaeus knew well christian 'tradition' - but only as it existed up to that point (and as was being peddled in his area). In the 2nd century, his was the opinion/imagination of the somewhat more 'established' christian beliefs of his time. (Or rather: as a bishop, he was contributing to/inventing opinion on jeebus in his time.) It was *after* Irenaeus that a lot of the other jeebus-historizing fable, as this is known today, came to be. So it is that one hears the later bishop Epiphanius, in the 4th century, parroting his own contemporary version of jeebus' fable: that jeebus' birth predated Herod. It was thereafter that the sheep were told to believe jeebus' birth to be somewhere near the end of BCE (rounded to 0). So whenever entities bring up "Jeebus' death", don't forget to quote the "very expert 2nd century bishop Irenaeus" as to when that was. Don't forget to stress how he was obviously more expert than later christian bishops, *because* he lived closer to jeebus' own time than others. Stress further, how his pronouncement is indeed vital. Because it sounds pretty much like the same 2nd century bishop Irenaeus who was, after all, the first christian to (allegedly) document - in ~180 CE - the names of all 4 alleged authors of the canonical gospels (the collective names were unknown to all christian 'authorities' writing before him, and indeed some prominent early fathers of the church didn't know the name of a single gospel author): http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview2.htm Quote:The names Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were not added to the Gospels There's one more reason why Hindus want to remember the 2nd century bishop Irenaeus, famous witness in his time for christianism (via his purported writings): Quote:Writing towards the end of the second century of our era, Irenaeus says that there existed then only four genuine graves of the Apostles, namely, those of Peter and Paul at Rome, that of John at Ephesus, and that of [color="#FF0000"]Thomas at Edessa in Mesopotamia[/color].Da hast du. [color="#0000FF"]Let's see, Irenaeus says that Jeebus was alive in Roman Emperor Trajan's reign (note that Trajan ruled between 98 and 117 CE, he wasn't born in 98 CE). So even if Irenaeus believed jeebus to have kicked the bucket just at the very moment after Trajan was made Emperor, jeebus would have lasted to 98 CE. At the same time, remember also that that Apostle (and jeebus twin) Thomas can't have been peddling jeebusism in India in 57 CE or anywhere thereabouts even as per christian reckoning, despite modern claims by "Syrian" christian liars on this - and here I quote Irenaeus - since jeebus wasn't even dead yet in 57 CE, so there *was* no christianism ("jeebus died for your sins, accept him") to peddle yet. Also, Thomas needed to be there at "jeebus' resurrection" (of course the resurrection was a later invention in christianism) in order to "doubt" it - you know, for the Doubting Thomas episode. But then, Irenaeus' testimony already declared that Thomas didn't die in India but in Edessa. And he certainly couldn't have come to India in the 1st century either (because jeebus wasn't dead yet until 98 CE).[/color] Why write all the above, when obviously all people on IF would be aware that the "Apostle Thomas in India"/"Syrian christianism came early to India" (and "Hindus killed Thomas") is a big christian lie? Well, because next time anyone here sees some Indian christian liar make a comment anywhere about "Apostle Thomas came to India in 57 CE" or wherever, just quote those 3 'authoritative' (damning) statements by bishop Irenaeus, famous for writing christian 'history' as it was known in the 2nd century CE (he was closer to jeebus' supposed geography than India is to it, and would know more accurately the 'date' of alleged jeebus' death than syrian christians in India would). To recap, the 3 predicates he gives us are: 1. jeebus was alive during Roman Emperor Trajan's reign, who reigned from 98 - 117 CE 2. apostle thomas died in Edessa (and Irenaeus is only aware of 4 apostles' graves anyway) 3. Irenaeus' authority IS important, since until him no christian church father had even heard of the names of the alleged authors of *all* 4 gospels. The later church fathers quoted *him* on who the 4 gospel authors are. 4. Therefore, even as per early and 'authoritative' claims on jeebus and gospel and apostle historicity, exactly how could apostle thomas have died in India when he was to have died in Edessa, let alone have come to India before the non-existent jeebus' death (which at its earliest must have been in 98 CE)? (5. Etc. Can Q.E.D. here, proving Syrian christian lying.) Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 08-24-2011 So if Thomas's grave is at Eddessa in Mesopotamia per Ireneus, then what is there in San Thome Madras? Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-24-2011 1/2 [quote name='ramana' date='24 August 2011 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1314127040' post='112571'] So if Thomas's grave is at Eddessa in Mesopotamia per Ireneus, then what is there in San Thome Madras? [/quote]I'll get to the 2nd part of your question in a moment. But the first half of your question contains a fallacy. You're assuming that Thomas existed, died and is buried somewhere. By all valid accounts, neither he nor any of the apostles ever existed. The whole point of the previously-mentioned reference "The Twelve Apostles" pamphlet "published by Thomas Scott" which quoted Irenaeus was to show how not only jeebus but his 12 apostles didn't exist either. My point in referring to the statement was simply this: in the 2nd century when the alleged Irenaeus existed, christian history-manufacturing had only yet invented 4 graves for 4 of the alleged apostles: none of which alleged 4 graves were even set in India yet; and notably, that of Thomas was somewhere well away from India. And that he was martyred in Mylapuram, TN, is a story that the catholic church (christoPortuguese) invented only in the 16th century. As Sharan explained, this was their christian way of 'legitimising' their christoterrorist takeover of the Hindu Temple there. See the following (these are things that all Hindus should MEMORISE - MEMORISE, the way you ought to memorise the names of the many early church fathers who've provided damning evidence/witness for the non-existence of the absurdity known as jeebus): - http://freetruth.50webs.org/B2c.htm#Apostles - contains more from Scott's pamphlet - http://atheists.org/12_Further_Fictions_from_the_NT - by Frank Zindler - Go to the Right column of the main page of Kenneth Humphreys' http://jesusneverexisted.com/ (Apparently Humphreys is frequently talking on US and UK radio now, debating christists. There's even a video of him talking on SkyTV posted at the site.) Anyway, in the Right column of the main page of his site are some of his audio files and articles. You'll see the following Telling Section, where each point has associated documents and AUDIOS: Quote:The Missing Witnesses The point is well-stated. It's what people have been saying for centuries: It is known in genuine biblical scholarship (long documented) that neither the Apostles nor Paul existed. Same for Mary, James, etc, etc, as is mentioned above. (Entire schools of historians worked on exactly this field: the unhistoricity of jeebus and his gang and the forgery of the babble). Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-24-2011 2/2 Now to the 2nd half of the question: [quote name='ramana' date='24 August 2011 - 12:55 AM' timestamp='1314127040' post='112571']what is there in San Thome Madras?[/quote] To get to Sharan's answer to your question (he's recently made references to exactly this), scroll down to the later part of this post. Your guess is as good as mine. But, consider the following two points: (a) from reading Sharan's St Thomas in India Myth book, recall that there were 6 tombs for Thomas in India itself and many more in other countries (none of those listed in Edessa). http://freetruth.50webs.org/A4c.htm#India, which links to http://hamsa.org/20.htm. For some reason, hamsa.org is unavailable, so consult Ishwar Sharan's book on his website, or IArchive. Quote:One of their legends presents their leader St. Thomas the Apostle as the evangelist of China: after allegedly preaching to the Indians, he supposedly came to China and preached to the Chinese as well. It is claimed he then returned to India where he died. Nevertheless, he's given a tomb in China. He's also given a tomb in many other places: Brazil, Germany, Japan, Tibet, Malacca, and no less than 6 tombs in India. (b ) Where is there an authentic tomb of an apostle? Remember the absurdity of Peter's tomb at the Vatican. In summary (http://freetruth.50webs.org/Overview2.htm): Quote:Duplicated relics of St Peter at the Vatican: two skulls of St Peter, bones belonging to more than 2 legs and bones of domestic animals including goats, sheep, cows, swine, and a chicken. [Link] Of Bones and Boners: Saint Peter at the Vatican by Frank R. Zindler (As is obvious from context, the 2nd noun in the title refers to the word's traditional English meaning of 'someone who removes the bones of some creature'. In this case, it's a reference to the bone collectors at the Vatican.) Relevant excerpt (http://freetruth.50webs.org/B3a.htm): Quote:Duplicated relics within the Vatican: For those who want to read in full, go to: http://web.archive.org/web/20081017182116/http://www.atheists.org/christianity/bones.html Written by none other than American Atheists' multi-lingual editor Zindler - yet another who's famous for entertaining as he educates (although that's what all good writers do). Quote:Formerly a professor of biology and geology, Frank R. Zindler is now a science writer. He is a member of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, the New York Academy of Science, the Society of Biblical Literature, and the American Schools of Oriental Research. he is the Editor of American Atheist.He's written many articles on the blabla, I mean the babble: unhistoricity of jeebus, the concocted canon, biblical forgeries, falsehoods, etc, etc. [color="#0000FF"]Also relevant to Ramana's question ("What then is in the 'Thomas' Tomb in Chennai?") are the next 4 points, which all concern Sharan's recent page on the ongoing Thomas lie peddled by the christopaper TOI (the most recent propaganda by TOI on this is dated 20 Aug 2011 = a few days ago):[/color] http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/jude-sannith-in-the-times-of-india-telling-lies-for-thomas/ 1. In the *left* column on the above page, you'll find an image with the heading Idol on the empty tomb in San Thome Cathedral Note that the image is of Hindu-looking women - complete with Sari and Pottu/Bindi = cryptochristianism (it's pretty bad in TN) - all worshipping at the dead Non-existent Apostle Who Never Came's empty tomb. When you hover over the image of the "Fake tomb of Thomas in San Thome Cathedral", the text that appears is relevant to your question: Quote:The plaster idol of St. Thomas lies over the second tomb the Portuguese opened in 1523. Popular belief today is that the archbishop uses the empty tomb as a vault to store the vast wealth of the archdiocese which the Portuguese appropriated from Hindu temples in Mylapore. 2. In the main article of this page (see pt 3), there's an image of bones on display. The caption is again relevant to your question (and bear in mind what's posted above about Peter's bones in Italy): Quote:San Thome Bishop's Museum: Human bones kept on display in the museum. Whose bones are they? The Portuguese opened the tomb of a Chola prince when they were digging in the old Kapali Temple compound. Are the bones his? - TOI Photo 3. Also on the page is the image caption: Quote:San Thome Bishop's Museum: Carved temple columns and other Hindu artefacts are kept in the museum. What are they doing there? And what do they represent except material evidence for a Hindu temple on the site before the building of the church. - TOI Photo You *want* to look at the photo that the above text captions. Hover over the image, and the text that appears is: "Hindu temple columns in the San Thome Bishop's Museum". 4. Hindus really ought to read the main article on this page (http://apostlethomasindia.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/jude-sannith-in-the-times-of-india-telling-lies-for-thomas/). It's the 2nd article on the page and is from TOI (the first is the familiar one by K Elst). Note that the TOI christian propaganda piece is dated: "Times of India, Chennai, August 20, 2011" The bid to conquer Hindu TN for christ is on full-speed now. Concerning India, Vatican is speaking out of two mouths: publicly - for the international audience - the Pope has declared that Thomas never came to India ("only to Afghanistan perhaps W Pak"), since christian church history doesn't allow it PLUS church history specifically contradicts the syrian christian nonsense about Thomas. Privately, the Vatican continues to give its footsoldiers in the Indian media and cinema etc. the green light to go ahead and milk the Thomas fable for all its worth to stake Hindu TN into christianism. It's the catholic media in India that regularly harps on the lie "Santa Thomas in India" (recall that many "syrian christians" are catholics not 'orthodox', owing to the famous enthusiastic conversions by the christo-Portuguese of the syrian christian traitors who had invited the christoPortuguese to invade Bharatam). And if there's one thing organised catholics in India *don't* do, it's acting without the (global) church hierarchy's consent in such important and well-organised matters. <- That's how you *know* that the Vatican is where the christians in India got their orders from to continue peddling the "Thomas in India" fiction. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 08-26-2011 We need serious enquiry into the Syriac origin of the Koran and links of Syrian Christians in India to the Muslims, including possible relationship of a vanguard Nasrani group with the Muslims. It is doubtful there were any Christians in India prior to Muslim invasion. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 08-27-2011 Dhu, Can you elaborate on this? We do know that Koran has Aramic aka Syrian inputs.We know trade routes were there to ME due to monsoon winds etc. Are you postulating that these trade routes brought Syrian Christians as advance elements of Islam which to me is a new morphing of Old Testament religion? Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 08-27-2011 Thomasian origin of Christians in India is false, as well as the explanation that they were escaping persecution by Rome (the xtians were the ones quite actively persecuting the heathens and consolidating their religion in the 1st millenium). Also not credible is the claim that the heathen culture in India moderated their fanaticism and that they therefore retreated into a shell for nearly a millenium until reunion with their Portuguese better halfs (again impossible given the dynamics of 1st millenium persecuting Christianity). Now we know that Nasir (ansari) in Islam signifies "helper" and is represented as a faction in the Koran. Given that the Koran is written in transformed Syriac and that Monotheisms originate as color revolutions, Syriac (and also Indian Syriac) involvement in genesis of Islam needs to be investigated. Faithfreedom apparently has a thread on the Ansari, Nasrani connection in the Koran. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-28-2011 ^ There's stuff relevant to that. May come back to it later. But then, it's nothing you don't already know (I think all of it was pasted by someone or other on IF before. Search IF for "Nestorian".) Anyway. Some bits and pieces. 1/2 1. http://jesusneverexisted.com/orthodoxy.html on santa Augustine (who famously persecuted Hellenes): Quote:(354-430)Humphreys doesn't mince words and gets straight to the point in his one-line summary of Augustine's work. 2. Couldn't locate this earlier, in an above post, when I wanted to link to it. http://ishwarsharan.wordpress.com/ (via https://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/the-myth-of-saint-thomas-and-the-mylapore-shiva-temple-2010-ishwar-sharan/) Contains Sharan's book the St Thomas Myth in a format for online reading. He has a PDF somewhere for offline reading. 3. First the reprise: It's probably familiar to all that the cross as deeply religious symbol was used until IIRC the 4th century by the heathens of the mediterranean, in particular the Hellenes. The earliest crosses (and crucifixes: of Dionysus) that have been found are Hellenistic, not christian. And they concern the death and rebirth/resurrection of Dionysus (christianism 'invented' the resurrection of jeebus rather late). The christians slowly usurped crosses *thereafter*. http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor237925 via http://freetruth.50webs.org/B1b.htm#CrossAndFish Quote:Although a stake called a stauros (the Greek term used in the earliest Bible writings but where English versions incorrectly translate it to "cross") got used to execute criminals, there exists not a shred of evidence that a Biblical stauros describes a cross or even a T-shape. And all that just tells one something about any socalled "ancient" crosses found by syrian christianism in India: they are lately manufactured evidence, of course. Any crosses they point to as establishing their ancientry in India merely underlines that they're lying, and in fact can be taken as admission that their uninvited invasion into India was late. While as per the catholic church the cross was *officially* inducted into christianism in the 6th or 7th centuries - apparently the cross didn't usurp the fish's position in christianism until some centuries later again: http://www.christianism.com/appendixes/append6.html Quote:"The Cross. About the tenth century the fish was superseded by the cross, which became the universal symbol of the Christian faith." [69]. So now to the point. Following - incl. its use of bold and italic for emphasis - is also from http://www.christianism.com/appendixes/append6.html Quote:from: Sex Symbolism in Religion, J.B. Hannay [1855 - 1931], With an Appreciation by Sir George Birdwood, Privately printed for The Religious Evolution Research Society, 2 volumes, Oakeshott, 1922. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - Husky - 08-28-2011 2/2 4. Sharan's comment on Encycopaedia Britannica Quote:There is a well planned Christian agenda in Wendy Donigerââ¬â¢s Hindu bashing. Chicago is the largest and wealthiest Catholic diocese in the world and it has a large Indian Christian population including Syrian Christians. The University of Chicago is for all intents and purposes a Catholic university. Its Divinity School is world famous. It produces all the religious and cultural references for the Encyclopedia Britannica which has its headquarters in the city too. Related to the above comment by Sharan. The following contains extracts from the eminently readable and knowledgeable ex-catholic, ex-Fransiscan priest Joseph McCabe (aka the "encyclopaedic brain"). Again, except for the blue highlighting, which is my own, the emphases are as in original. You can read it in full at: http://www.christianism.com/articles/19.html Quote:Note: numerous references are made to the 9th, 11th, and 14th editions of the Encyclopaedia Britannica: Hindus betray no comprehension of the christian determination behind suppression of truth and peddling of untruth (also seen in the communists in India - but then, the monotheistic tendency is ever the same). All the above is why the latest encyclopaedia fad known as "Wikipedia" (the most ridiculous encyclopaedia of them all, because it's based on the principle that 'truth is established by those who lobby with greatest determination') is full of christist lying. Wikipedia has replaced Britannica etc etc down to the more recent Encarta (all of which were entirely doctored by christianism when it came to articles concerning their own religions and particularly also when it came to Hindu religion) - the replacement of existing encyclopaedias by Wikipedia is in terms of accessibility/visibility and hence in importance/relevance/prominence, as per the view of the church. So all of christianism is working to control Wackypedia. Modern christian cults often give up since they can't control the (to them) crucial evolution vs the laughable 'creationism' - the non-religious west guards science at atleast - and so modern christocults have even resorted to creating a parallel wiki encyclopedia to put their christian views into. In contrast, catholicism, foremost as ever, but also the other established christianism, want to control what the *general* public reads: about christianism and also (and this is where it specifically concerns Hindus) what Hindus and even others read about Hindu religion. Christianism wants to write Hindus' history for Hindus. Rather like the christobrits before them tried their best to. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - HareKrishna - 08-28-2011 Is there any evidence that syrian christians came in India in the 4 century? Im not an expert but syrian rituals seem to be of late 10 century if not more. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 08-31-2011 The following demonstrates RCC origin of Islam, the aim appears to have been to displace the Persians [url="http://www.inter-islam.org/Pastevents/FallRome.html"]The Fall of Rome - A Quranic Prophecy[/url] Quote:The following are the beginning verses of Surah Room: Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 09-02-2011 Charles E. Carter, "John and Empire: Initial Explorations" Publisher: T&T Clark Int'l | ISBN 10: 0567027031 | 2008 | 440 pages | Quote:In this significant and innovative contribution, Warren Carter explores John's Gospel as a work of imperial negotiation in the context of Ephesus, capital of the Roman province of Asia. Carter employs multiple methods, rejects sectarian scenarios, and builds on other Christian writings and recent studies of diaspora synagogues that combined participationist lifestyles with observance of distinctive practices to argue that imperial negotiation was a contested issue for late first-century Jesus-believers. While a number of Jesus-believers probably lived societally-accommodated lives, John's Gospel employs a "rhetoric of distance" to urge much less accommodation and to create an alternative "anti-society" for followers of Jesus crucified by the empire but vindicated by God.In addition to establishing this tense historical setting, chapters identify various arenas and strategies of imperial negotiation in wide-ranging discussions of the gospel's genre, plot, Christological titles, developing traditions, eternal life, the image of God as father, ecclesiology, Jesus' conflict with Pilate, and resurrection and ascension.Carter has explored interactions between the emerging Christian movement and the Roman Empire in various articles and book-length studies such as Matthew and the Margins (Orbis), Matthew and Empire (Trinity Press International/Continuum), Pontius Pilate: Portraits of a Roman Governor (Liturgical), and The Roman Empire and the New Testament (Abingdon). So its John's gospel that drives the Imperium ideas of Christianity and this shows in even Islam. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - ramana - 09-12-2011 The Atlantic Magazine has an article on Mel Gibson making a movie on Judah Maccabee and his revolt Mel Gibson on Judah Maccabee The important item is that without the Maccabeean revolt against the Romans there would never be a Jesus. Further see the role of circumcision in the Judaism, reform Judaism aka Christianity and even Islam. Historicity of Jesus - 2 - dhu - 09-12-2011 Circumcision (castration) was the mark of the slave in the Greco-Roman Empire. Unsurprisingly, it is this exact practice with the "revolutionary monotheists" deem as their cultural legacy. Regarding Herodotus' book of psyops.. Quote:450 BCE Quote:First five books of Hebrew Bible (Torah) compiled, including Genesis with its reference to Yawehââ¬â¢s command to Abraham to circumcise himself, his sons and his slaves and servants. Circumcision enforced by priests among Jewish people as sign of the Covenant. |