Riots In India

08-12-2005, 12:03 AM

Spin-masters are buring midnight oil...

Folks... check this out:
Rediff today
QUOTELate prime minister Rajiv Gandhi had taken only 30 seconds to clear the deployment of army to control widespread anti-Sikh riots in 1984 in Delhi, his then principal secretary P C Alexander, said in Rajya Sabha on Thursday.


Post by Rajesh from our archives

QUOTEhttp://indianexpress.com/full_story.php?...t_id=53788

QUOTEÂ
1984 L-G blames Rajiv Govt for delay in Army deployment

SIKH MASSACRE: At 11 am, I asked for Army...P C Alexander put it off until evening: P G Gavai
MANOJ MITTA

NEW DELHI, AUGUST 24: Twenty years after he was forced to resign as Lt Governor of Delhi owning ââmoral responsibilityââ for the 1984 Sikh carnage, P G Gavai has blamed the Rajiv Gandhi government for the delay in calling in the Army.

Not just this. In his affidavit filed to the Nanavati Commission last week, Gavai claims he underlined this same point in 1986 to the Ranganath Misra commission but it gave the Rajiv Government a clean chit and suppressed Gavaiâs damning testimony.

Ironically, the Misra report did go on to admit that ââat least 2,000 peopleââ would not have been killed had the Army been called in the morning of November 1, the day after Indira Gandhiâs assassination.

This is exactly what Gavai had asked for, he now says in his affidavit, at a meeting held on November 1 at 11 am by when the killings had already begun.

That meeting, chaired by P C Alexander, then Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister, was attended, among others, by then Home Minister P V Narasimha Rao and Army chief Gen A S Vaidya.

Gavai, who is based in Mumbai now, claims to have ââstressedââ the need to call the Army ââat once, without waiting even for a moment.ââ

Since ââevery one present at the meetingââ agreed with his suggestion, Gavai expected immediate action. ââNonetheless, Dr Alexander ruled that the police commissioner and the Army authorities should meet in the police commissionerâs office at 5 pm,ââ Gavaiâs affidavit says.

Gavai also claimed he had mentioned this meeting to the Justice Ranganath Misra Commission in the course of an in-camera sitting in the judgeâs chambers. Yet, to Gavaiâs ââhorror,ââ the details he provided like ââthe important meeting with Dr Alexander, etc just do not find even a vague mentionââ in the Misra Commissionâs report.

The Army eventually entered two of the six police districts of Delhi in the evening of November 1 and the remaining districts in another 24 hours. It was effectively deployed throughout the Capital only in the morning of November 3 and the situation was brought under control by the same afternoon.

H S Phoolka, senior counsel for the Carnage Justice Committee (CJC) representing victims, says that in the next sitting of the Nanavati Commission on Thursday, he will request that Alexander be summoned to explain why he had not allowed Gavai to call the Army when the violence had just begun.

Incidentally, Alexander is now an ââindependentââ Rajya Sabha MP elected two years ago with the support of the BJP and Shiv Sena. Gavaiâs claim to have asked Alexander for permission to call the Army right in the morning of November 1 is contrary to the Misra Commissionâs finding that the Rajiv Gandhi Government had ââalready given clearance for the Army being called and the delay in taking the decision and making the requisition was of the Delhi Administrationâsquarely of the Lt Governor and Commissioner of Police.ââ

08-12-2005, 09:40 PM

Pioneer
QUOTEBJP flays Sonia's "silence" on Nanavati reportÂ 
Agencies/ New Delhi
Despite the Prime Minister's apology, BJP today took exception to the "silence being maintained" by Congress President Sonia Gandhi on the Nanavati Commission report and demanded that she too apologise to the nation for the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.

"With the Prime Minister's apology, the resignation of the Ministers and the virtual withdrawal of Action Taken Report, it has been proved that Congress was fully involved in the riots but it is surprising that Sonia Gandhi did not consider it appropriate to utter even a word," BJP Parliamentary Party spokesman V K Malhotra told reporters here.

Recalling the Congress Chief's sit-in in front of Mahatma Gandhi's statue in the Parliament House complex after the Gujarat riots, he said, "her silence on the anti-Sikh riots even five days after the tabling of the Action Taken Report is baffling." <!--emo& Big Grin

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /> He also wanted the Congress to tell the nation as to why after approving the ATR, the Government changed its stand and virtually withdrew it and secured the resignation of the people indicted in the report.

"We would like to know who wanted to save the Minister initially and why it was later decided to re-examine the cases", he said.Â

08-13-2005, 01:45 AM

QUOTECongress pampered its Lals for leading mobs 
Pioneer
Rajesh Kumar/ New Delhi
After the anti-Sikh pogrom, there were several instances of murderous mob leaders being promoted and pampered within the Congress party. The cases of two such leaders need special mention - Motilal Bakolia and Lala Ramlal.

While Bakolia was the right hand man of former Congress MP Dharam Dass Shastri, Ramlal was the satrap of Kashmeri Gate area. At that point in time, both were members of the Metropolitan Council.

Though his leader, Dharam Dass Shastri went on a decline, Motilal Bakolia was entrusted with various positions between 1984 and 1990 in Delhi Congress. Till 2003, Bakolia was an MLA of the party and even headed the Vidhan Sabha's Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe (SC/ST) Committee.

The Nanavati Commission report on page 35 in the case of Karol Bagh police station is shocking. It says that after the Station House Officer (SHO) brought the situation under control and launched a drive to recover looted property and arrest the rioters, Shastri and Bakolia, accompanied by some Councillors went to the police station on November 5, 1984 and condemned the police officers for their exemplary work.

They also told the police that those arrested were not criminals. "The police were also warned of dire consequences if they did not release those arrested and if any action was taken against them. At that time, Additional Commissioner of Police HC Jatav and Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCP) Amodh Kanth were also present.

Mr Bakolia in the presence of these higher officers tried to manhandle the SHO. Dharam Dass Shastri shouted at the DCP and SHO and tried to pressurise them to release the arrested persons. 

Both DCP and SHO were in favour of releasing the arrested persons but HC Jatav opposed that it was not a proper way to behave with political leaders," the Commission said.

Lala Ramlal, now 93-year-old, has always enjoyed a close proximity to the Nehru-Gandhi family. When Indira Gandhi was arrested in 1977, he even stood surety for her bail bond. Ramlal claims that he was offered a ticket to contest the Lok Sabha elections from Chandni Chowk parliamentary seat in 1985. A fact, which is not disputed by local Congress leaders. In 1997, his daughter-in-law Kamlesh Gupta was given a Congress ticket to contest the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) election.

The GT Nanavati Commission report on the anti-Sikh carnage, mentions the case of Kashmeri Gate police station on page 47. On November 1, 1984, a samadhi was demolished in Yamuna Bazar and Congress Councillor Ramlal, Lahri Singh and Dharmo were leading a mob and raising slogans.

Mr Fakkar Nath in his affidavit before the Commission said that he was asleep in his house when he heard some noise coming from outside. When he went out, he saw Ramlal instigating the mob to kill him and burn his house. He, therefore, ran away. Fakkar Nath further stated that thereafter he went to the police station but the duty officer refused to register his complaint.

Three major incidents took place on that day where a violent mob set on fire 20 taxis and two persons at ISBT, Kashmeri Gate. In the second incident, a violent mob looted and burnt some shops on Hamilton Road. Mr Hari Deo Singh was the Assistant Commissioner of Police (ACP) of the sub-division and Dario Singh was the SHO of the police station. The Commission says that the police took no action.

Bharatvarsh · (This post was last modified: 08-13-2005, 10:45 PM by Bharatvarsh.)

QUOTECongress pampered its Lals for leading mobs

Rajesh Kumar / New Delhi

After the anti-Sikh pogrom, there were several instances of murderous mob leaders being promoted and pampered within the Congress party. The cases of two such leaders need special mention - Motilal Bakolia and Lala Ramlal.

While Bakolia was the right hand man of former Congress MP Dharam Dass Shastri, Ramlal was the satrap of Kashmeri Gate area. At that point in time, both were members of the Metropolitan Council.

Though his leader, Dharam Dass Shastri went through a bad patch, Bakolia was entrusted with various positions between 1984 and 1990 in Delhi Congress. Till 2003, Bakolia was an MLA of the party and even headed the Assembly's Scheduled Caste/Scheduled Tribe (SC/ST) Committee.

The Nanavati Commission report on page 35 indicting him for preventing Karol Bagh police station officers from restoring law and order is shocking. He even tried to manhandle the SHO.

The report says that after the Station House Officer (SHO) brought the situation under control and launched a drive to recover looted property and arrest the rioters, Shastri and Bakolia, accompanied by some Councillors went to the police station on November 5, 1984 and condemned the police officers for their exemplary work.
Â
They also told the police that those arrested were not criminals. "The police were also warned of dire consequences if they did not release those arrested and if any action was taken against them. At that time, Additional Commissioner of Police HC Jatav and Deputy Commissioner of Police (DCP) Amodh Kanth were also present.

Mr Bakolia in the presence of these higher officers tried to manhandle the SHO.Dharam Dass Shastri shouted at the DCP and SHO and tried to pressurise them to release the arrested persons.

Both DCP and SHO were in favour of releasing the arrested persons but HC Jatav opposed that it was not a proper way to behave with political leaders," the Commission said.

Lala Ramlal, now 93-year-old, has always enjoyed a close proximity to the Nehru-Gandhi family. When Indira Gandhi was arrested in 1977, he even stood surety for her bail bond. Ramlal claims that he was offered a ticket to contest the Lok Sabha elections from Chandni Chowk parliamentary seat in 1985. A fact, which is not disputed by local Congress leaders. In 1997, his daughter-in-law Kamlesh Gupta was given a Congress ticket to contest the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) election.
Â
The GT Nanavati Commission report on the anti-Sikh carnage, mentions the case of Kashmeri Gate police station on page 47. On November 1, 1984, a samadhi was demolished in Yamuna Bazar and Congress Councillor Ramlal, Lahri Singh and Dharmo were leading a mob and raising slogans.

Mr Fakkar Nath in his affidavit before the Commission said that he was asleep in his house when he heard some noise coming from outside. When he went out, he saw Ramlal instigating the mob to kill him and burn his house. He, therefore, ran away. Fakkar Nath further stated that thereafter he went to the police station but the duty officer refused to register his complaint.

Three major incidents took place on that day where a violent mob set on fire 20 taxis and two persons at ISBT, Kashmeri Gate. In the second incident, a violent mob looted and burnt some shops on Hamilton Road. Mr Hari Deo Singh was the Assistant Commissioner of Police (ACP) of the sub-division and Dario Singh was the SHO of the police station. The Commission says that the police took no action.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...or~leading~mobs

Bharatvarsh · 08-13-2005, 10:56 PM

QUOTE'84 Riots: Govt sets panel to keep PM's promise

Agencies / New Delhi

The Ministry of Home Affairs has constituted two official committees to implement assurances given by the Prime Minister for providing compensation and relief to families who suffered during the 1984 anti-Sikh riots.

One of the committees will look into the adequacy and uniformity of the compensation given to the surviving members of the riots.

The other committee will deal with the issue of providing additional livelihood to the survivors.

The Union Home Ministry will also consult the Law Ministry on ways to initiate action against retired bureaucrats indicted in the Nanavati Commission report.

The current law does not permit any action against a bureaucrat who has been in retirement since four years.

The committees will submit their reports to the Home Ministry by October 15.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...t&counter_img=2

Bharatvarsh · 08-13-2005, 11:18 PM

Its from pioneer but I couldn't find the link:

QUOTEThey fuelled mobs, were feted by party

Nanavati Commission report may have exonerated the top leadership of Congressfrom their complicity in the 1984 anti-Sikh carnage. However a follow-up of the evidences and findings of the Commission by The Pioneer reporters Sidharth Mishra, Rajeev R Roy and Rajesh Kumar makes it increasingly clear that those involved were feted by the party leadership for their deeds in the Capital's darkest hour

Despite being named several times for orchestrating the carnage of Sikhs in Kalyanpuri and Trilokpuri in November 1984, the acceptability and rise of Dr Ashok Chauhan within the Congress did not dampen.

He continued to remain the lynchpin of the Congress in east Delhi till 1996-97. Even today he calls the shots in the corridors of power. He is a member of a Delhi Consumer Protection Council (DCPC) and was nominated to the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) as an alderman.

"My nomination to the Corporation evoked sharp reaction and opposition from the aldermen belonging to the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP). They challenged my nomination in the court, which I subsequently won. Yet I did not press for the notification of nomination. Our party was in power and I did not want to create an embarrassing situation for the organisation," Dr Chauhan said wryly.

Dr Chauhan claims he was very close to Congress heavyweight HKL Bhagat.

After his decline in the Congress, Dr Chauhan shifted his allegiance to Human Resource Development Minister Arjun Singh and Uttranchal Chief Minister Narayan Dutt Tewari when Congress-Tewari came into being. First elected to the MCD in 1983 from Patparganj, he remained the Municipal Councillor till 1990.

"In 1993, I sought the party ticket to contest the Assembly election from Mandawali. A section of party leaders opposed my candidature. In 1994, I joined the Congress-Tewari," he said. In 1996, he contested the Lok Sabha poll from Aligarh on the ticket of Congress-Tewari, and claims to have polled 70,000 votes.

In 1997, Dr Chauhan was rehabilitated in the Congress. He got a party ticket to contest the municipal poll from Trilokpuri ward in east Delhi through then All India Congress Committee (AICC) general secretary and currently Governor of Gujarat Nawal Kishor Sharma. Though he lost the election, he continued to remain an active member of the party and kept in touch with people like Dr Karan Singh.

Since his acquittal in the 1984 cases, Dr Chauhan, ironically a graduate in Indian medicine system from Ahimsa Ayurvedic College, stays in Kalyanpuri where he runs Lata Clinic. He owns a palatial building in East Vinod Nagar from where he runs the Indraprastha Public School. The school also has a branch in New Ashok Nagar in east Delhi.

As per the affidavits by witnesses, 300 to 400 Sikhs were massacred in Block 32 and 36 of Trilokpuri. The survivors claimed in the affidavits that Dr Ashok, Rampal Saroj and some Congressmen collected near the gurudwara of Block 36. "Led by Dr Ashok, the mob first torched the gurdwara and then the macabre dance of death began," the Nanavati Commission report said.

A survivor, Gurdeep Kaur, stated before the Commission that the mob was led by Dr Ashok, Rampal Saroj, Sukhan Lal, Kishori and Rohtas. She said her neighbours Kundan Singh, Jaggu Singh, Jagat Singh and Harnam Singh were burnt alive. Kishori stabbed 14 people and her son, Pritam, was murdered before her eyes. Dr Ashok was also accused of pouring kerosene on Kewal Singh and Mewal Singh and burning them alive.

"Allegations against me were politically motivated. My rivals in the Congress got the relatives and dependents of the victims to file affidavit against me to damage my political career. Unfortunately, they succeeded in their nefarious motive. The fact, however, is that I was not involved in acts of killings," Dr Chauhan said.

The late Deep Chand Bandhu was never named in any FIR. But his son and bother-in-law Om Prakash find a special mention in the Nanavati Commission report. The deeds of local Congress leader Om Prakash alias Omi during the 1984 anti-Sikh pogrom were widely appreciated within the party. His family got benefits commensurate with Om Prakash's 'performances'. Deep Chand Bandhu, the brother-in-law of Om Prakash was promoted from being an inconsequential councillor to the powerful position of the Chairman of the Standing Committee of the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) in 1985.

Sources said that since Om Prakash had been named in the First Information Reports (FIRs) and in several affidavits, promoting him would have been blatant disregard of Sikh sentiments. Thus the harvest of the seeds sown by Om Prakash was reaped by Deep Chand Bandhu from 1984 to 2003. Bandhu's son has also been named in the GT Nanavati Commission report.

From chairmanship of the standing committee, Bandhu was promoted as the Leader of the House, a position he held till 1990, until the House was dissolved. In 1990, Bandhu was appointed vice-president of Delhi Congress and given a ticket to contest the Assembly elections in 1993 and 1998 from Ashok Vihar.

In 1994 Bandhu became the president of Delhi Congress and a special invitee to the Congress Working Committee. In the year 2001, he became Industries Minister in Delhi and remained in his office till his death in 2003.

It would be pertinent to mention that at one point of time, the party leadership had tipped Bandhu to be prepared for post of chief ministership in Delhi.

A large numbers of affidavits filed by victims before the Nanavati Commission stated that Kaka Bali, Ramchander Nagoria, Ishwar Pala, Pandit Shoke, Jitu Lovely, Vimal, Om Prakash and son of Bandhu were leading the mob on November 1, 1984. They were in a jeep. They were carrying tins full of some inflammable liquid. The police personnel who were deployed there did not stop the mob from committing such acts of arson and looting. On the basis of the affidavit of one Maan Singh whose house was looted, an FIR (435/91) was registered at Ashok Vihar police station and 12 persons were arrested and chargesheeted.

The Commission in its report said that police officials-SI Mange Ram and ASI Raja Ram had not only failed to perform their duty but had also assisted the mob attacking Sikhs and their properties. The Commission also pointed out that the vice-president of Youth Congress (I) East Delhi, Ramchander Nagoria and his men were involved in the attack on Sikhs in Nimri Colony and Wazirpur industrial areas. Seven Sikhs were killed, four gurudwaras, five houses, seven shops and 31 factories were burnt between October 31 to November 4 in Ashok Vihar.

Ramchander Nagoria, vice-president of Youth Congress east Delhi, was considered close to HKL Bhagat and Sajjan Kumar. After the riots, he also became a member of the executive committee of Delhi Congress.

08-13-2005, 11:44 PM

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' />
By George! he is making a lot more sense these days in the din of politics; though he is already highly placed, yet this crab is still trying to go higher.
Gujarat can't be compared to '84 anti-Sikh riots: Fernandes

Press Trust of India
Posted online: Saturday, August 13, 2005 at 1804 hours IST
Updated: Saturday, August 13, 2005 at 1809 hours IST

Ludhiana, August 13: NDA convener George Fernandes today said the post-Godhra violence in Gujarat and the 1984 anti-Sikh riots could not be compared.

The Gujarat "reaction" was a spontaneous outburst following the Godhra train incident, he told reporters here.

He said in Gujarat the Army was deployed as soon as the state government had asked for it whereas this did not happen during the Delhi riots. Also, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi was not involved in the violent incidents, he said. Fernandes alleged that several Congressmen were directly involved in the '84 riots.

08-14-2005, 03:03 AM

Riots and the politics of discordQUOTEWhy do you suppose the Manmohan Singh government completely misjudged the mood of the country over the report of the Nanavati Commission into the 1984 riots? Over the last week, the government has been comprehensively embarrassed on the floor of the House. Its allies have turned against it. The media, by and large supportive of Dr Singh on most issues, have been bitterly critical. A Cabinet minister has been forced out of office. A Congress MP has been made to give up his chairmanship of a government body.

Most significant, the regime has damaged its reputation as a government that comprises decent people. The Prime Minister, in particular, has cut a sorry figure: appearing, at first, to go along with the shameful Action Taken Report (or Action Not Taken Report) and then bowing to public pressure and seeking the forgiveness of Parliament and of the country at large.

Government is ruling with slim majority and Congress is not in majority, its english media which failed to understand country's mood.

Majority of ministers are with long charge sheet which include rape, murders, ransom, dacoits etc but english media still call them decent people. English media is projecting Sonia and Manmohan as leader but in reality they are parasites of highest order.
QUOTEWhen the Nanavati report was presented, Congressmen believed that it would be greeted with the same response as all the other reports: a burst of media attention followed by a total lack of interest. Further, Congressmen genuinely believe that the Nanavati Commission was appointed by the last BJP government in an effort to embarrass the Congress. Thus, they were predisposed to be suspicious of the report even before it was presented.
Media tried everything but when Congress was so vocal about Gujarat why they are so shy about Delhi. Public is not fool, its a good slap on so called secular media and especially on son of Commie and Congress stooge Vir Singhvi.

08-14-2005, 10:10 AM

Arrest Tytler, says Akali Dal
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/00020...~says~Akali~Dal
QUOTE"The UPA Government must show its sincerity by ordering the arrest and prosecution of Jagdish Tytler, Sajjan Kumar and others named in the Nanavati Commission report," he said.

The Union Government should go beyond enacting "political stunts like offering half-hearted apologies" under pressure, Badal said.

The Akali Dal veteran asked Punjab Chief Minister Amarinder Singh, to showÂ "moral courage and explain the role of the Nehru-Gandhi family in the riots".

08-14-2005, 09:12 PM

QUOTEThat old familiar feeling of '84 --Jaya Jaitly
By Jaya Jaitly
Deccan Chronicle, August 14, 2005.
It made one feel sick and outraged again listening to the words of some Congressmen on television during the debate on the Nanavati Commission Report. Witnessing the slaughter and mayhem all over Delhi in 1984 was terrible enough, but to see Congressmen in Parliament full of hypocrisy, political scoring points, jeers at the Opposition and heartless bravado rather than providing a genuine response to the cry for justice, was to relive the anger of 21 years ago.

What is the definition of justice in the various events that led to the pogrom on the Sikhs in 1984? Was it justice when Operation Bluestar was conducted ruthlessly after allowing Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale to stack a cache of arms inside the Golden Temple in Amritsar? Was revenge justified when Indira Gandhi was assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards? Was it justice when organised goons took revenge for her death on every Sikh they could find? Was it justice when the Congress party was forced by a PIL to institute an inquiry commission, or was it justice when they obtained whitewashed reports, one after another? In other words, what sort of action or reaction is an act of "justice"?

The Nanavati Commission Report will not satisfy the most optimistic who had hoped that a commission working without the interference of a Congress government would name the guilty clearly and unequivocally, and answer the only crucial issue that remains today - who organised the attack on the Sikhs all over the country, for there is no doubt even in Justice Nanavati's mind that the events were indeed organised. No other commission or committee called it an "organised carnage."

We must thank Justice Nanavati for the justice he has provided by stating this truth. If ordinary street goons organised them, the Congress Party must answer today why the Army or police did not come out in large numbers with lathis, teargas and bullets to stop the brutal atrocities for three days. Offering a truthful answer would be justice. The Congress Party has constantly passed off the 1984 massacres as "spontaneous anger." I was a witness to the fact that there was spontaneous shock, disbelief, stunned silence, but the only time I saw "anger" was when these "spontaneous" truckloads of men in white caps passed me by on Lodhi Road shouting "Khoon ka badla khoon se lenge."

We heard the same refrain broadcast from the cameras of Doordarshan which were trained on the same type of men at the gates of Safdarjang Road where Mrs Gandhi's body lay. Justice Nanavati provides only partial justice when he says that the killings from November 1 were not spontaneous because no one, including the media, reported "spontaneous anger" even on October 31, 1984.

The horrors of what happened in the bylanes of Delhi were known to everybody on the morning of November 1, because Sikhs were already being thrown over the Safdarjang flyover on the afternoon of October 31. I saved two persons by hiding them from the mobs in my car, keeping their two-wheeler at my house in Sujan Singh Park and reaching them to the police station at Tughlak Road at midnight so that they could be accompanied home under protection.

On the same afternoon when I asked policemen on Lodhi Road to stop the harassment of a group of Sikhs on the road a few yards behind us, they told me, "Drive on, you are not a Sikh. You need not worry." Overturned cars were already burning a few yards ahead but the policemen were unperturbed. As the sinister situation dawned on us we threw ourselves into preventive or relief work.

There are the agonies of those memories . of coming across melted flesh sticking to the road being pawed by dogs, long strands of men's hair cut in desperation to hide their identity, roofs broken through to throw burning rags and a strange white inflammable powder to set fire to homes and inhabitants, the cries for a pugree to save their izzat before food or medicines at Trilokpuri and subsequently at the camps, the locked doors of "butcher" Kishori and Ram Pal Saroj, assisted in getting bail by lawyers stationed at the homes of senior Congress leaders whom we met and fought with; the memories of running the Farash Bazaar camp for three months, delivering babies and bandaging gashed heads, our frustration and anger at finding that the "relief" provided by the lieutenant governor at the camps for the victims included colour televisions to watch Mrs Gandhi's funeral, the electric tension when H.K.L. Bhagat came to the camp and was refused entry, the tortuous hours noting the experiences of the survivors, each monotonously repeating the same story in shell-shocked tones and with blank expressions no matter which part of the city they had lived in.

These were published in a small black pamphlet called "Who are the Guilty?" which was later rubbished by the late Rajiv Gandhi as the act of a kangaroo court. Is Justice Nanavati's report like the same kangaroo court? Is that why the ATR of the government after pondering over it for six months treated it with scarcely hidden contempt?

Is it justice for the public exchequer to pay the salaries of those Congress leaders specifically mentioned in the report so that salt can be rubbed into the wounds of those seeking that elusive creature? Will true justice come if all the living dead are given a lakh of rupees more or a few jobs are found for the third generation of sufferers, or by a Pawan Kumar Bansal, MP (Congress) resorting to reading out at length in Parliament a ghost-written speech made by Mrs Sonia Gandhi on another occasion? Justice needs to be administered by people who care for more than the politics of power.

Instead, if the government defends or protects those whom the victims still remember leading the mobs that killed their loved ones both in living daylight and in their subsequent nightmares, justice surely must be given a new meaning

08-15-2005, 02:49 AM

QUOTEJust to tell you there were lots of incidents in Punjab when Sikhs pulled Hindus out of the buses and shot them some times 40-50 at time.

The above quote attributed to Rajiv of Toronto is so wrong that I had to respond.
It gives the impression that "Sikhs" were pulling Hindus out of the buses on a regular basis and killing them. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

First off, a few such incidents did happen. I don't recall the exact number. And yes, Hindus were separated out and killed. No denying that. On a scale that consists of only two notches, right and wrong, this overshot the wrong mark.

But this by no means was a regular occurrence. To say that "Sikhs pulled Hindus out of the buses and shot them some times 40-50 at time" gives the impression that this was a common occurrence and was the defining characteristic of that time and that all conclusions and impressions about those times must stem from these events. Perhaps only a person living out of India can utter such statements.

(Parenthetically, does anyone recall when a Nihang passenger saved a Hindu boy from being killed in one such incident?)

What bothers me most here is that no attempt is made by this Rajiv to say "terrorists" or "militants". He simply calls them "Sikhs." Even after living in such a country, he has no qualms painting an entire community with the same brush. He would never be able to attribute an incident or even a sequence of such incidents to, say "Jews" or "Indians" (as in aboriginals) and get away with it.

08-15-2005, 03:24 AM

QUOTE<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE
Just to tell you there were lots of incidents in Punjab when Sikhs pulled Hindus out of the buses and shot them some times 40-50 at time. 

The above quote attributed to Rajiv of Toronto is so wrong that I had to respond.
It gives the impression that "Sikhs" were pulling Hindus out of the buses on a regular basis and killing them. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

First off, a few such incidents did happen. I don't recall the exact number. And yes, Hindus were separated out and killed. No denying that. On a scale that consists of only two notches, right and wrong, this overshot the wrong mark.

But this by no means was a regular occurrence. To say that "Sikhs pulled Hindus out of the buses and shot them some times 40-50 at time" gives the impression that this was a common occurrence and was the defining characteristic of that time and that all conclusions and impressions about those times must stem from these events. Perhaps only a person living out of India can utter such statements.

(Parenthetically, does anyone recall when a Nihang passenger saved a Hindu boy from being killed in one such incident?)

What bothers me most here is that no attempt is made by this Rajiv to say "terrorists" or "militants". He simply calls them "Sikhs." Even after living in such a country, he has no qualms painting an entire community with the same brush. He would never be able to attribute an incident or even a sequence of such incidents to, say "Jews" or "Indians" (as in aboriginals) and get away with it.</div>

It is sad to see what partition, mughals and brits failed to accomplish i,e. HIndu/Sikh disunity, has been accomplished by congress and miguided Sikh militants. Time may heal the scars.

08-15-2005, 04:23 AM

Jaspreet,
Rajeev figure are on track not off. Some Bus and train incidence where Hindus were pull out of Bus only, It became sort of common occurence that govt started pilot armed jeep in front of buses in most affected area.
I have lost my relative in Muktshar bus incidence.
QUOTEFirst off, a few such incidents did happen. I don't recall the exact number. And yes, Hindus were separated out and killed. No denying that. On a scale that consists of only two notches, right and wrong, this overshot the wrong mark.

But this by no means was a regular occurrence. To say that "Sikhs pulled Hindus out of the buses and shot them some times 40-50 at time" gives the impression that this was a common occurrence and was the defining characteristic of that time and that all conclusions and impressions about those times must stem from these events. Perhaps only a person living out of India can utter such statements.
The Arms Project identified dozens of reports of attacks on buses and trains carried out by militants. The following accounts are representative examples:

In December 1992, a state-run bus traveling to Chandigarh was ambushed by six militants, believed to be members of the Khalistan Liberation Front, who ordered Hindu passengers to stand apart from the Sikhs. The gunmen reportedly then raked the Hindus with hundreds of rounds of AK47 rifle fire, killing sixteen and wounding nine. Five weeks earlier, twenty-five Hindu migrant laborers were killed in a similar bus attack.

On November 4, 1992, militants placed road blocks and stopped vehicles on the Gurdaspur-Tibri road near Amritsar. Seventeen persons identified as Hindu were shot. According to a report published in the Punjab English daily, Tribune, the police claimed to have recovered a note on Bhindranwale Tiger Force (btf) letterhead stating that the killings were in retaliation for the killing of a btf leader.

In an October 1992 attack marking the fourth anniversary of the assassination of former Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, Sikh gunmen bombed an intercity bus near the border between Punjab and Kashmir, killing eighteen civilians and seriously injuring twenty-eight. The attack, along with two separate attacks against Hindu laborers, triggered anti-Sikh rioting.

At about 9:30 P.M. on June 15, 1991, gunmen opened fire inside two passenger trains stopped outside Ludhiana, killing at least 75 passengers. The attacks reportedly were coordinated, as both trains were stopped about a mile from the station by having their emergency cords pulled. Survivors stated that on one of the trains, Hindu passengers were identified before being shot. On the second train, the firing was indiscriminate, and many Sikhs as well as Hindus were killed. Although no group claimed responsibility for the attacks, they were believed to have been carried out by groups opposed to the elections scheduled for June 22.

On July 7, 1987, Sikh separatists attacked two buses in northern Haryana state, killing thirty-four. Most of the victims were Hindu. The militants used a car and a jeep to create a roadblock. On one bus, they singled out particular passengers, dragged them off, and shot them to death. Militants then boarded the second bus and opened fire, killing all the passengers. Chinese-made AK47s were used in both attacks. The incidents occurred the day after militants opened fire on a bus in Punjab, killing forty passengers, and wounding twenty-seven. The victims were all Hindus bound for a pilgrimage center in Uttar Pradesh.

In June 1987, militants hauled seventy-two Hindus off two rural buses and shot them dead.

President's Rule, direct rule from Delhi, was imposed on Punjab on 6 October, 1983, after a bus was ambushed and six Hindu passengers murdered.

08-15-2005, 04:33 AM

Mudy,
My post was not about whether such incidents happened.
I know they happened.
I read of them in those days.
My post was about something else.

If you are comfortable making statements like
1. Whites are trash
2. Blacks are criminals
3. Hindus pray in dark, dingy places
4. Jews are "kameene" business people
then there's nothing more I need discuss with you.

If you aren't, you will realize why I object to Rajeev's blanket statement.

08-15-2005, 04:44 AM

Yes, he should call them Sikh Terrorist or Militant, but sad part during that time whole environment in Punjab was very much polluted. It was more like pre partiton situation where neighbour were marking which house they will occupy after Hindus will be kicked out from Punjab.

I agree those who were there can understand situation and can feel it. Whether such incidence took place once or twice in six months but other random killing on motor cycle were frequent. Whole environment was scary. We were always scared venturing out during night time. Using buses for transport was out of question. I was on train when 24 plus RSS Shakha particpant were shot down in Ludhiana. Yes, it took hell out of my parents who were in Delhi.
Shops used to close after 8pm. Punjab Police was most hated entity on whole world, worst kind of criminal syndicate who was using both side to make money.
I remember one incidence when I was out for Icecream along with my uncle and shooting took place where we went, We missed bullets and ran. First thing happened in house was head count. As soon as they came to know me and my uncle are missing and went to same place, my grand mother collapsed.

Number of dead Hindus were refered as cricket score.

08-15-2005, 11:11 PM

Man behind 1984 Sikh riot whitewash defends himselfQUOTEHe is satisfied he was able to give a positive report. ââI did come to some positive findings: the entire Sikh community was not to blame for the assassination and to indict them as a community is wrong. It was also crucial to find out who were the people behind the murderous act.ââ

Justice Misra insists the riots were not organised by any political party. ââHow can you say the riots were pre-meditated. Nobody apprehended Indira Gandhiâs murder, no one could have organised the loot and murder of so many thousands of people. A serious thing (assassination) happened, a serious reaction came. It was a frenzy.ââ 

On the Congressâs alleged role, Justice Misra says, ââI was not called to give a finding on the partyâs role. However, how can you call a political party a murderer. The Congress is a big party, how can you tell which man on the street is a member of the party?ââ
But why its different when it comes to post Godhra riots?

08-16-2005, 12:03 AM

Mudy:
Mishra was rewarded for the report whitewashing Congress goons - he went on to become Congress Rajya Sabha MP
QUOTEAfter retirement, he then went on to become head of the National Human Rights Commission, then he was a Congress Rajya Sabha MP for four years, and is still working today, as the newly appointed chairperson of the National Commission for Linguistic and Religious Minorities.


Here's what Kushwant Singh has to say about Mishra:

QUOTEJustice Ranganath Mishra of the Supreme Court was appointed as a one-man commission.

'Operation Whitewash' had begun. Before Mishra was half-way through, the panel of lawyers representing victims of the holocaust led by Soli Sorabjee expressed its lack of confidence in the learned judge's impartiality and withdrew from the commission. Mishra went ahead and submitted his findings to the government.Â

As expected, he held the Lt Governor and the police commissioner of Delhi guilty of dereliction of duty. It must have occurred to him that neither of the two could have acted the way they did without the instructions of higher-ups, including the prime minister or someone acting on his behalf or the home minister. I doubt if Mishra can look at his own face in a mirror.

08-16-2005, 12:56 AM

Previously, every Congress acts used to get complete silent burial and rewarded those who helped to coverup job, but now every general election brings change in power and new investigation. In future any political party will think 100 times instigating riots except commies as they are master in this art and never got caught because of dedicated, brainwashed, on Chini payrol comrades in press.

Bharatvarsh · (This post was last modified: 08-19-2005, 07:36 AM by Bharatvarsh.)

Victory To The Mob
The Nanavati report is utter garbage. All the killers are roaming freely. Updates
KHUSHWANT SINGH
QUOTEAs the news of her death spread, rampaging mobs of Hindus shouting khoon ka badla khoon se lenge (we will avenge blood with blood), armed with cans of petrol, matchboxes and lathis set upon Sikhs they met on the roadsâeasily identifiable because of their distinct appearanceâand set them on fire.
QUOTEWhat followed was largely condoned by Hindus and the Hindu-owned media. Girilal Jain, editor of the Times of India, wrote that Sikhs should have been aware of what lay in store for them. N.C. Menon, editor of the Hindustan Times, wrote that they had "clawed their way to prosperity" and deserved what they got. There were few people left to share their pain. It must be acknowledged that some leaders of the Sangh parivar and the RSS, including A.B.Vajpayee, went out of their way to help the Sikhs.So did men like Ram Jethmalani, Soli Sorabjee and a few others.

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodna...h+%28F%29&sid=1
People how would u characterise those riots, were they Hindu vs Sikh riots or Congressis against sikh riots, I know that there was strong anti sikh sentiment among Hindus at that time because of the Khalistan movement but would u characterise the riots as Hindu-Sikh. It does not matter if Congress organised them, were the people who did the riots Hindus or Congress party workers going on a rampage for Indira's death, can someone enlighten me here.

08-19-2005, 08:22 AM

Its true there was lot resentment but killing each other was out of question.
In Delhi riots, neighbors were not involved in killing each other. Infact they went all the way to protect Sikhs. Hindus were patrolling streets with lathies 24 x 7.

Media played important role, they were showing 24x7 images of Indira and one can see wailing poor lady near her body. Drama ran till cremation worked as fuel.
Juggi cluster mostly migrant and illegal Bangladeshies were on rampage with material support from Congress.
After riots, suddenly TV aerial started showing up in every single juggi. There was sudden boom in juggies.
Basically, Congress used there vote bank to butcher Indian citizen.

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