Miscellaneous Topics discussion

[Bhootnath]

Hi again,

Please ignore point "1" of the post above ..

request 2 still stands.

Thanks

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hello,

1. Recently has there been a debate / discussion abt secularism in Delhi at IIC or place like that ? Participatants seem to be Sahabuddin, Togadia and few more .. if somebidy has link for that , pls post ..<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bhoothnathji here is an article about the debate:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Islamic interpretation of secularism
By Ram Gopal

In a discussion on ‘Secularism in India, its meaning, significance’, at the India International Centre, New Delhi, eminent personalities, like the former Central Minister, Shri Vasant Sathe, ex-MPs. Syed Shahabuddin and Shri Prafull Goradia, the chief of Jamiat-ul-Ulema-i-Hind, Maulana Ansari; VHP President, Shri V.H.Dalmia, and some others, expressed their views.

While Shri Sathe, Shri Goradia and Shri Dalmia pointed out certain portions of the Indian Constitution and government orders which militated against the secular character of the Indian polity, surprisingly Shri Shahabuddin too complained that India was not truly secular, albeit for entirely different reasons. He said that, in spite of the Constitutional guarantee for equal respect and protection to every religion, Islam and the Muslims of India were not getting their due. He argued that secularism, namely Sarvadharmasambhava (equal respect to all religions), meant that Islam, in its entirety, should enjoy full respect and immunity in India. Carrying his argument further, Shri Syed said that while other religions, like Hinduism and Christianity, were confined to spirituality, (relationship between God and man), Islam covered all aspects of human life and that the Shariat (Islamic law) is an essential element of Islam. Hence, according to Shahabuddin, respect to Islam is incomplete without providing full play to Islamic laws of the Muslims. He also asserted that all protagonists of a common civil code for all, (including Muslims), were non-secular and thus anti-Muslims. Maulana Ansari shared his views.

Secularism means that the State should not interfere in the religious belief of its subjects, should not discriminate between individuals on grounds of religion, race, birth or sex and should not propagate any particular religion from State funds. Muslim intellectuals and their leaders, however, stick to their own version of secularism which means equal or even more rights for Muslims in a non-Islamic State and denial of any right to non-Muslims in their Islamic States.

The roots of Shri Shahabuddin's thesis lie in the Gandhian philosophy of Sarvadharmasambhava (equal respect to all religions on earth), a slogan repeated ad nauseam by every Hindu activist. It is a one sided proclamation that comes only from Hindu platforms-social, religious or political. Their own chosen leaders and the Parliament allowed the Muslims to have their separate Shariat law, their separate Urdu language, subsidy for their Haj pilgrimage, in addition to mushrooming of mosques and madrasas. Following these concessions, they themselves have set up Shariat courts. And, yet they complain of their persecution, discrimination, and backwardness. To assuage their feeling, the Indian prime minister has set up the Rajinder Sachar Committee to find ways and means to grant job reservations to Muslims. The finance minister too has asked the Reserve Bank to take similar action for setting up an Islamic bank in India. According to latest reports, a memorandum prepared by 46 Muslim organizations and signed by 420 individuals, including 300 women, has been submitted to the prime minister urging him to bring agricultural land of the Muslims within the purview of the Muslim Personal Law (Shariat) Act. The signatories include Syed Shahabuddin, former chief justice of India, A.M. Ahmadi, noted actress Shabana Azami and Iyricist Javed Akhtar.

Will the non-Muslim secularists of India even now understand the Muslim mindset in its correct perspective? Tailored reports of Muslim backwardness, concocted stories of their persecution and other grievances will go on multiplying till they do not become absolute rulers of Hindu India.

This is how, step by step, they went on increasing their demands in undivided India since 1906 till 1940 when they declared that they could not live in peace with Hindus on an equal footing, proposed Partition, started a civil war in 1946 and got Pakistan in 1947. An avowed anti-Hindu British regime was at their back. History is being repeated so soon. The only difference is that the anti-Hindu secularists have taken the place of the anti-Hindu British rulers.

It is notable that, howsoever, the world may call Pakistan or Bangladesh a failed State, the Muslims there won’t complain of backwardness, discrimination or persecution. It is only in a democratic and secular India that they are using ‘secularism’ as a weapon to make it a Dar-ul-Islam, (land where Islamic rule prevails), from a Dar-ul-harb, (land where Islamic rule does not prevail). Syed Shahabuddin’s definition of ‘secularism’ is a clear signal towards this goal. It is a warning not only to the Hindus but to the entire non-Muslim world.

(The author is a freelance journalist and can be contacted at A-2B/94-A, MIG Flats, Paschim Vihar, New Delhi-1100 063.)

http://www.organiser.org/dynamic/modules.p...pid=113&page=25<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

I am reading a book about flying devis.
It says the "Portrayal of Goddess of Yaksa", at Matula Grottoes, in India. It says that the style is representative of the three turns formula.
Please does anyone know where is this grottoes? and also can explain me about Matula?
Maybe is written wrong. I can not find anything about them at the internet.
Thanks <!--emo&:blow--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blow.gif' /><!--endemo--> Dina

[Hauma Hamiddha]

Matula caves are in Shri Lanka, Not India. You will definitely find info on them on the web.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Hauma Hamiddha+Jan 19 2006, 12:09 AM-->QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Jan 19 2006, 12:09 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Matula caves are in Shri Lanka, Not India. You will definitely find info on them on the web.
[right][snapback]45093[/snapback][/right]
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Please
I have found Aloka Cave in Matula Town.
Idid not find Matula caves. Is in Matula town or the Matula caves are not in Matula town ?
And also the Yaksa Goddess? Do you know anything about her?
Do you know where can I found about her?
Thanks a lot
Dina

[Guest]

Idols & Icons: The Misrepresentation of Hinduism
By Dr.David Frawley
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
There are a number of terms that are applied to Hinduism in the Press,
not only in the West but in India itself, which foster a negative
image of it.  Hindus are routinely called worshippers of idols,
polytheists, and various other denigrating stereotypes, which do not
reflect any intelligent examination of the religion itself but what is
often an intentional campaign of misrepresentation and distortion.           

All the religions of the world - with the general exception of
Protestant Christians, Muslims and Jews - use some sort of images or
statues in their religious worship.  Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox
churches abound with statues, paintings and pictures of various types.
Hindu, Buddhist, Taoist and Shinto groups use them as well.  Native
American, African and Asian religions abound with them.  The ancient
religions of the entire world from Mexico to Greece, Egypt, Babylonia,
Persia, India and China used images, as archeology so clearly reveals.
The use of images appear as an integral part of human religious
practices and no universal religion could be regarded as complete
without them.  Even many Protestant Christians have pictures of Jesus
in their house or church, and Muslims often have pictures of their
religious or political leaders, occasionally even depictions of
Mohammed.

However, there is a strange dichotomy in how such religious imagesare
judged.  When they are part of the Christian tradition they are called
icons and classified as works of art and regarded as sacred in nature.
When they are part of non-Christian or pagan traditions they are
called "idols," which is a derogatory term that indicates not the
sacred but mere superstition. In the case of native American and
African images, even when done by a culture as advanced as the Mayas
of Central America - which built great pyramids and had many great
cities - they are lumped along with so-called primitive art.

An image of Christ as the good shepherd is called an icon and viewed
with respect.  An image of Krishna as the good cow herder - which is a
similar image of the Divine as watching over the souls of men - is
called an idol, which encourages one to look down on it.  This is
prejudice and negative stereotyping in language of the worst order.
What Christian would accept calling a depiction of Christ an idol?
Would Christian religious leaders approve of it in the press
of Christian countries? What Christians in India would accept it?
And would not the govemment and news media of India change the
language in their favor?  Yet Hindus routinely accept that
depictions of their deities - who represent as high a standard in
consciousness and ethical behavior as Christ - are demeaned as idols.
The news media of India does this commonly, which encourages the
Western news media to continue in this practice, which is part of
their negative depiction of Hinduism.

   To call such images as idols implies that those who worship them
practice idolatry or take the image itself as a God.  This adds yet
more prejudice and error to this judgement.  The use of an image -
whether we call it an icon or an idol - does not imply belief in the
reality of the image.  That we keep a photograph of our wife and
children at our work desk does not mean that we think our wife and
children are the photograph.  It is a reminder, not a false reality.

  Moreover, the use of the term idol inflames the sentiments of
anti-idolatry religions like Christianity and Islam, as both the Bible
and the Koran, at least in places, instruct their followers to oppose
idolaters and smash their temples and images.  The use of the term
idol in the press, particularly in the Indian press, is thus careless,
insensitive, inflammatory, and communal.  It should be removed in an
effort to promote greater understanding and good will between
religious groups.  The use of such terms indicates that the news media
of India uncritically and unnecessarily uses terms that encourage
anti-Hindu attitudes.  It is a hold over from the British rule in the
intellectual sphere, even though the British have long left the
country.  What majority community in the world is so unaware of its
new media to allow such practices to continue? Yet this issue only
reflects many other prejudicial terms like Hindu chauvinism, Hindu
fundamentalism, and Hindu militancy which the often anti-Hindu Indian
news media frequently uses, while at the same time not using them in
regard to Islam and Christianity, even when they are much more
appropriate relative to the exclusivistic attitudes and greater
intolerance of these belief-oriented religions.

  Using such terms as idols, the news media is not fostering
communication but promoting discrimination and violence.  Such abuse
of language should be challenged and replaced wherever it is found,
whether relative to Hindus or anyone else.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[ramana]

This is not really about Indian culture but the complete text of a seminal work:Hamlet's Mill: An Essay on Myth and Frame of Time by George Santillana & Hertha von Dechend

Please try to read and reflect. I hope the gurus will appreciate.

[acharya]

Muslims will Conquer India
by: xorthfredthegreat 01/24/06 04:55 pm
Msg: 949 of 1549

It is well underway. The Buddhists have also chipped away at the Hindu. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I realize now what a bunch of pathetic racists many Hindu can be. I really didn't know this until today. I guess I am rooting for the Hindi to win the battle of ideas versus the Muslims but Hindu India often makes bad decisions (ex. siding with the Communists during the cold war).

[acharya]

Deaf Chinese dancers perform 'Thousand-hand Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva', or 'Guan Yin', a Chinese goddess, at a shopping mall in Hong Kong January 24, 2006. Retailers in the territory are arranging various kinds of cultural performances in a bid to boost sales before the Chinese Lunar New Year of the Dog which falls on January 29. REUTERS/Bobby Yip

<img src='http://server2.pictiger.com/img/55709/picture-hosting/chinese-photo.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://images2.pictiger.com/images/50/62680926dab215ef3f5a08db1f52c950.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />


Do you know what this is?

[ramana]

Its the dance of the thousand hand Buddha- Sahasrabhuje Buddha.
Here is a link to the google search on it.
Intro to Buddhas

If you do search on the Google images a video of the dance can be found ~ 11.8MB I saw it last year and its mind blowing especially as the dancers are deaf.

[Guest]

I was reading up on the verses in the Srimad Bhagavatam , In the 12th canto the verses describe the dynasties and the modern age kings which seems very interesting.

12.1.28

tato 'ṣṭau yavanā bhāvyāś caturdaśa turuṣkakāḥ

bhūyo daśa guruṇḍāś ca maulā ekādaśaiva tu


Eight Yavanas will then take power, followed by fourteen Turuṣkas, ten Guruṇḍas and eleven kings of the Maula dynasty


Eight Yavana's= Are these greek kings

Turushka's = Are there exactly 14 major arab-mughal Marauders or rulers

Gurundas=??? what is this race or who is this???



12.1.29-31

ete bhokṣyanti pṛthivīḿ daśa varṣa-śatāni ca

navādhikāḿ ca navatiḿ maulā ekādaśa kṣitim

bhokṣyanty abda-śatāny ańga trīṇi taiḥ saḿsthite tataḥ

kilakilāyāḿ nṛpatayo bhūtanando 'tha vańgiriḥ

śiśunandiś ca tad-bhrātā yaśonandiḥ pravīrakaḥ

ity ete vai varṣa-śataḿ bhaviṣyanty adhikāni ṣaṭ


These Ābhīras, Gardabhīs and Kańkas will enjoy the earth for 1,099 years, and the Maulas will rule for 300 years. When all of them have died off there will appear in the city of Kilakilā a dynasty of kings consisting of Bhūtananda, Vańgiri, Śiśunandi, Śiśunandi's brother Yaśonandi, and Pravīraka. These kings of Kilakilā will hold sway for a total of 106 years.



Which city are they referring to ????



12.1.12

refers to Chandragupta maurya and Chanakya and then the later verses give the exact number of years of various other kings



There is a very detailed description of the kings , step by step ,it would be really great if any learned forum members could make a correlation between the names of the kings and figures from History.


If the moderators feel it does not deserve a separate thread please merge with an appropriate one.

[acharya]

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node=India

[Guest]

Hai,

This is Ronnie.from kerala,India. Now I am living in Taiwan and currentaly I am studing about the Hakka folktales. I also like to collect some details about Hakka community in India

Hope to hear from others

Ronnie

[ramana]

From Deccan Chronicle, 29 April 2006
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A singer discovers reformer in saint



“Emperor and servant fall asleep in the same way; Brahmin and Chandala end up in the same graveyard”

— Annamacharya

Hyderabad: Much before great reformist movements started in India, Tallapaka Annamacharya, a saint-composer of the 15th century, was ridiculing the caste and class divides around him. Not much was known about this South Indian composer, till 14,000 of his compositions inscribed on 2,500 copper plates were retrieved from a cave at the Lord Venkateswara Swamy temple in Tirumala in 1922.

Since then, the Tirumala Tirupati Devasthanams (TTD) and other cultural organisations have been striving to promote the compositions of Annamacharya.
It is believed that Annamacharya composed and sang 32,000 sankeertanas and 12 satakas (sets of hundred verses). The TTD has been promoting research on the composer’s works for the last two decades through its Annamacharya Project. Scholars have classified the compositions of Annamayya primarily into Adhyaatama (philosophical) and Sringaara (erotic) Sankeerthanas. Works belonging to these two categories are the favourites of Carnatic classical singers too.

It needed 28-year old Kondaveeti Jyothirmaye Chowdary to highlight the ‘social element’ of Annamayya sankeerthanas.  “It is not that I have discovered something new,” said Jyothirmaye. “The classical singers have been stressing the element of devotion. <b>I only tried to understand the social philosophy of his works.” Once she started focusing on that in real earnest, Jyothirmaye realised that Annamayya’s visions had socialist, communist, humanist and feminist dimensions. Take for instance, his keerthana, “Bahu jeeva himsa parulaina variki, iha paramulu daivami-chchena...” (Can God grant salvation to those who resort to violence?). This reflected his deep humanism, according to Jyothirmaye.</b>

Similarly, he sung, “Appuleni samsara maina pate chaalu; Tappuleni Jeethamokka paramainaa chalu...” Roughly translated, this means that one should live within one’s means and should not resort to corruption. In another hymn, he ridicules men for opposing rule by women.

<b>“And remember, Annamacharya advocated removal of inequalities nearly 400 years before the trinity of Carnatic music — Thyagaraju, Muthuswami Deekshitar and Shayama Sastry — spread the Bhakti philosophy,” said Jyothirmaye. </b>Jyothirmaye, who hails from Angaluru village near Gudivada in Krishna district, started singing from the age of seven.  <b>Ironically, this devotee of Annamacharya is the great-grand daughter of well-known atheist writer Tripuraneni Ramaswamy Chowdary.

Though hailing from the family of atheists, she had deep devotion and faith in God from childhood. </b>When her father, a civil engineer in a private firm, moved to Tirupati along with his family, Jyothirmaye joined the Music and Dance College at Tirupati. “For the sake of music, I gave up an MBBS seat,” she said. “I wanted to sing.”

It was fate which guided her to the Annamayya project of TTD. She started developing deep interest in Annamaya’s philosophy and it has become the mainstay of her life. It goes to her credit that Jyothirmaye found something unique in his songs, something that could be communicated even to those people who are not faithful temple-goers.

<b>“I realised that the real essence of Annamayya songs was not to merely worship God, but to do service to the fellow human beings,” she said. </b>She did not merely sing those songs. She also took them to heart and set up the Annamayya Kala Peetam in Hyderabad and later, developed it into Kondaveeti Jyothirmaye International Trust.

The trust is undertaking vocational training for the blind, the physically and mentally challenged, juvenile delinquents, women prisoners and destitutes. She found her name in the Limca Book of Records for publishing all the great sacred books of the world in Braille for visually impaired people.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

The whole bhakti movement was about creating an eglatarian society.

[Guest]

Hai,

I am an Indian,now living in Taiwan and I am studying Hakka folktales and also plan to study about the Hakka society in Kolkota


Ronnie

[Guest]

Use existing thread on question.
Don't create new thread.

[agnivayu]

Oh yeah the Buddhists have chipped away at Hindus, that's why India is like 1% Buddhist after a 2500 year presence. Anyway the idea that Buddhism and Hinduism are religions is some Abhrahamic Propaganda nonsense.

Hindu India's government is not Hindu at all, the commi scum who run the country don't support Hindus.






<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Jan 25 2006, 09:41 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Jan 25 2006, 09:41 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Muslims will Conquer India
by: xorthfredthegreat  01/24/06 04:55 pm
Msg: 949 of 1549

It is well underway. The Buddhists have also chipped away at the Hindu. I don't have a dog in this fight, but I realize now what a bunch of pathetic racists many Hindu can be. I really didn't know this until today. I guess I am rooting for the Hindi to win the battle of ideas versus the Muslims but Hindu India often makes bad decisions (ex. siding with the Communists during the cold war).
[right][snapback]45531[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[agnivayu]

What a hateful communist bitch. It's people like this who give the Indian race a bad name. She can brown nose White lefty's all she wants, but it's not going to win her any credibility with Hindus, who number 1 billion and will be the great new force of the 21st century.

What about the Castrati in Western society, that was pretty barbaric, maybe she can do a movie on that ?






<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Oct 14 2005, 09:15 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Oct 14 2005, 09:15 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Was emailed to me. Anyone know more about this movie Water by Deepa Mehta?
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

I think, there is a great misconception about divorce in India. Most people say that there was no custom of divorce among Indians.

Chapter 9 of Manusmriti gives the conditions under which one ought to resort to divorce.

There was contract marriage between Pururaba and Urbashi. When contract was allegedly broken, Urbashi deserted Pururaba.

Lord shiva had mentally deserted Rati and she was under depression before she burnt herself.

Bhim and Hidimba too had contract marriages.

Jaratkaru deserted his wife as she broke contract.

Before The Hindu Marriage Act, 1955 came into being every caste had customary laws of divorce. Was there any caste which did not have the customary dicorce law?

regards

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Greek Gods Prepare For Comeback </b>
By Helena Smith in Athens
The Guardian UK
5-6-6

It has taken almost 2,000 years, but those who worship the 12 gods of ancient Greece have finally triumphed. An Athens court has ordered that the adulation of Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Athena and co is to be unbanned, paving the way for a comeback of pagans on Mount Olympus.
The followers, who say they "defend the genuine traditions, religion and ethos" of the ancients by adhering to a pre-Christian polytheistic culture, are poised to take their battle to the temples of Greece.
"What we want, now, is for the government to fully recognise our religion," Vasillis Tsantilas told the Guardian. "We will petition the Greek parliament, and the EU if that fails, for access to worship in places like the Acropolis, for permission to have our own cemeteries and, where necessary, to re-bury the [ancient] bones of the dead.
<b>About 98% of Greeks are Orthodox Christian, and all other religions except Judaism and Islam had been banned. </b>
<b>Yet the pagans say as many as 2,000 Greeks have signed up to their movement. Mr Tsantilas, 42, a computer scientist who came to paganism after toying with Buddhism, Taoism and Islam, said worshippers perceived the ancient gods as the "personification of the divine". </b>
<b>But Greece's powerful Orthodox Church takes a less charitable view, accusing the worshippers of idolatry and "poisonous New Age practices".
Father Eustathios Kollas, who presides over the community of Greek priests, said: "They are a handful of miserable resuscitators of a degenerate dead religion who wish to return to the monstrous dark delusions of the past." </b>
www.guardian.co.uk/intern...02,00.html
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->