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06-18-2007, 10:48 PM

http://www.hindu.com/2007/06/18/stories/...770100.htm

QUOTE End the veil system: Pratibha

Special Correspondent

JAIPUR:

Rajasthan Governor and UPA Presidential candidate Pratibha Patil on Sunday left historians and Muslim social activists astounded by her remarks that the purdah (veil) system was introduced in India to protect women from Mughal aggressors.

Addressing a function marking the 467th birth anniversary of Maharana Pratap at the Nagar Parishad Auditorium in Udaipur, Ms. Patil said though Indian culture always respected women, the veil system began during the Mughal rule to "save women from Mughal invaders."

Ms. Patil said: "Today we are citizens of free India. There is need to put a stop to such practices. That alone will ensure real respect for women. When women are progressing in every field, it is our duty to discontinue such practices."
...

State president of Jamat-e-Islami Hind Mohammed Salim said the opinion that women adopted the veil because of the fear of Mughal rulers reflected the distorted view of history taken by the Sangh Parivar. "It is unfortunate that Ms. Patil found the communal forces' views convincing enough to incorporate them in her address."
...
However, Congress spokesperson Param Navdeep, contacted by The Hindu, defended Ms. Patil's remarks, saying they should be seen in the light of the life and times of the erstwhile Mewar ruler. "There should be no controversy about it. It is an established fact that women were the target of aggression during the Mughal rule," she said. 
<!--emo& Big Grin

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Just the other day, the left justified its not backing the male Patil, beacuse of his being soft on hindutva. Similar reasons were given for Karan Singh.

What are they going to do now? Even the female Patil seems to be soft on hindutva from their standards. <!--emo& Smile

--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Shekhawat or Kalam surely got a little boost by this plainspeaking by Pratibha Patil. It only speaks volumes about the contortions Congress and left have to undergo to keep justifying a twisted vision.

06-18-2007, 11:13 PM

Thackerayâs Presidential ruminations
QUOTEPrior to the meeting with Vajpayee, Vice President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat and Sushama Swaraj called up Thackeray. But he did not respond to their calls.
Significantly, the Sena Chief answered the call made by the Prime Minister on the same night after a two hour long meeting. Though there has been no official decision, the saffron party has merely hinted as to the candidate that they will support in the upcoming Presidential elections. This has created a flutter in the BJP with the party top brass now seriously wondering on how to pacify Thackeray.

QUOTECaught in a quandary over which way to vote in the Presidential poll, the Shiv Sena has welcomed the fact that a Maharashtrian woman had been considered for the prestigious post.

Sena's sole criterion on endorsing support is that some local character was hand-picked by Cong 'high-command'.

06-18-2007, 11:35 PM

Rediff: From Rajendra Prasad to Kalam
<img src='http://im.rediff.com/news/2007/jun/14kbk.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

06-19-2007, 02:57 AM

QUOTECong says no, and it shows its mindset 
Pioneer News Service | New Delhi
Analysis
A surprise move by the newly-floated Third Front has injected a new dimension in the presidential contest with Congress forced to formally say "no" to a second term to President Abdul Kalam and its ally DMK facing the predicament of letting down the 'missile man' from Tamil Nadu.

If the Congress choice of Pratibha Patil was a masterstroke, then the Third Front's decision to support a second term for Kalam was a well-calculated gambit. By forcing the Congress to 'shun' a scientist and respectable man like Kalam, the Third Front leaders killed two birds with one stone. They established the Third Front's secular preferences, exposed Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's 'Muslim first' assertions, and placed DMK chief M Karunanidhi in a cleft stick.

The last point is specially significant. In the Southern politics where regional sentiments arouse strong passion, the DMK could end up paying a heavy price for deserting Kalam. In a way, Karunanidhi faced a bigger dilemma than Shiv Sena chief Balasaheb Thackeray, who has come under pressure from a section of the party to back Pratibha Patil in the name of Maratha pride. While Pratibha is not seen as a Maratha by many because of her Rajasthan family links, Kalam is a Tamilian.

Secondly, by proposing Kalam's name, the Third Front hopes to question the so-called empathy of the UPA towards the Muslim community. So far, the Congress had been insinuating that the Third Front leaders were hand in glove with the BJP. Now, the Third Front has occasion to gloat over Congress' predicament.

With little hope that Kalam will accept the offer when the Third Front leaders meet him on Wednesday, speculation was rife that the so-called non-aligned group of eight regional parties may field their own candidate. The name of former Tamil Nadu Governor Fatima Bibi was doing the round as a candidate proposed by TDP chief Chandrababu Naidu. However, she was reportedly not too keen on joining the fray because of her old age.

The 'anti-Congress' thrust of AIADMK chief J Jayalalithaa, who briefed the mediapersons on the Third Front deliberations, has kept the NDA hope alive. No Third Front leader has categorically ruled out support to Vice-President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat or questioned his credentials.

Shekhawat's offer to withdraw from the race if the Congress agreed to support Kalam, is seen as a brilliant tactical move that could come handy for leaders within the Third Front who favoured a direct contest between an 'independent' Vice-President and Congress nominee Pratibha Patil. By supporting Kalam, Shekhawat could silence those who questioned his secular credentials and give reasons for the regional satraps to reconsider their stand.

06-19-2007, 06:39 AM

<img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /> Pratibha in soup over remarks on veil

New Delhi, June 18
The UPA-Left Presidential candidate Pratibha Patil today found herself at the centre of controversy over her remarks on the veil, with historians and Muslim groups terming them historically inaccurate.

The Rajasthan Governor had at a function in Udaipur yesterday said the 'purdah' system began in India after the Mughal invasion to protect women from the invaders.

B P Sahu, a historian at Delhi University, disagreed with Patil's views, saying the veil existed much before the Mughals arrived in India.

"People are not historically aware that the veil existed in the early Indian society. It was a way to show respect to the elders," Sahu said.

"But the idea that the 'purdah' system started as a result of the invasion by the Mughals is one of the stereotypical ideas that have been taken from the works of British historians," he said.

The Jamaat-e-Ulema-i-Hind said Patil's statement was inaccurate.

âIt is wrong to say the 'purdah' system began after the Mughal invasion. There are several areas in the country where women do not wear the veil and there are several other areas where the veil has always been the practice, even before the Mughals came to India,â Ahmed Abdul Hameed Nomani, General Secretary of the Muslim group, said.

He, however, said it was ânot an anti-Muslim statementâ.

âIt is a widely perceived view and we would not like to see it as an anti-Muslim statement,â Nomani said.

Member of the Jama Masjidâs consultative committee Yahya Bukhari criticised Patilâs statement, saying, âIt is a purely religious matter and she has no right to interfere in matters of any religion.â He termed it an âanti-Muslimâ statement. âPratibha Patil is an educated woman. But her statement reeks of ignorance,â Bukhari said.

Academician Kamal Mitra Chenoy said the statement was âhistorically inaccurateâ.

âThough it is widely believed that the âPurdahâ system began after the Mughal invasion, in fact, it was prevalent earlier,â he said.

Addressing a function to mark the 468th birth anniversary of the 16th Century Mewar ruler Maharana Pratap in Udaipur, Patil had said, âWe have been practising âpurdahâ in Rajasthan, which was brought about since we had to fight the Mughals. We had to protect our women and children and that is why the women were kept behind closed doors.â â PTI

06-19-2007, 08:07 AM

QUOTEB P Sahu, a historian at Delhi University, disagreed with Patil's views, saying the veil existed much before the Mughals arrived in India.


There was constant Jihad against "Kaffir" India even before Mughals.

06-19-2007, 04:52 PM

Email on this Purdha discussion:
QUOTEExcerpts from a book'Thoughts on Pakistan' written by the father of the Indian Constitution, Dr B R Ambedkar in 1941. A precis of the book with analysis would be up on esamskriti shortly.

"Purdah system - That something more is the compulsory Purdah system for women. As a consequence a system of segregation of Muslim women is brought about. âFriends have reproduced excerpts of purdah impactâ. All of them are confined to the same room, not expected to visit outer rooms. These burkha clad women walking on the streets is one of the most hideous sights one can witness in India. Such seclusion cannot but have its deteriorating effects upon the physical constitution of Muslim women. They are usually victims of anaemia, tuberculosis and pyorrhea. Their bodies are deformed with their backs bent etc. Ribs, bones and nearly all their bones ache. Heart palpation is very often present in them. The result of this pelvic deformity is untimely death at the time of delivery. Purdah deprives Muslim women of mental & moral nourishment. Further they become narrow and restricted in their outlook. Being deprived of a healthy social life, the process of moral degeneration sets in. They have no desire for knowledge, because they are taught not to be interested in nothing outside four walls of the house. It makes them helpless, timid & unfit to fight life.

The origin of purdah lies of course in the deep-rooted suspicion of sexual appetites in both sexes and the purpose is to check them by segregating the sexes. But far from achieving that purpose, it has adversely affected the morals of Muslim women. They have limited contact with the outside world; the men have no company of females except children & aged. The isolation of the males from the females is sure to produce bad effects on the morals of men. It requires no psychoanalyst to say that a social system that cuts off all contact between the two sexes produces an unhealthy tendency towards sexual excesses & unnatural and other morbid ways & habits.

Purdah is also responsible for social segregation of Hindus from Muslims, which is the bane of public life in India. The Hindus do not want to establish social contact because it means contact between a Muslim man with a Hindu lady and Hindu man. Surely Purdah is found amongst a section of the Hindus too but it lacks religious sanctity, as is the case with the Muslims. âFriends what the Hindu ladies do is to have a ghoonghat, meaning covering of the head & face. Again it is more prevalent today in smaller towns & villages. A number of ladies cover their heads only as a mark of respect to elders. However, Hindu women do not wear another layer of clothing like Muslim women do'.

Thus there is stagnation in the social life of the Muslims. But there is also stagnation in the political life of the Muslim community in India. Their predominant interest is religion. Muslim politics is essentially clerical and recognizes only one difference namely that existing between Hindus and Muslims. None of the secular categories of life have any place in the politics of the Muslim community and if they do find a place â they are subordinated to one and the only governing principle of the Muslim political universe, namely Religion. "

06-19-2007, 11:44 PM

'Pratibha Patil insulted Islam'QUOTESeveral Muslim leaders called on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to find a new candidate for the largely ceremonial post of president, after accusing Pratibha Patil of insulting Islam.

The controversy over Patil's remarks erupted even before she filed her nomination for the presidential election, due in July. The cut-off for nominations is June 30.

Maulana Khalid Rashid, a member of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board, said it was God who had asked women to wear a veil and that this was enshrined in the Koran, the Muslim holy book. The board is the highest body of the Muslims in India on laws governing personal matters.

"Any statement against the veil means an opinion against Allah and the Koran which no Muslim will tolerate," Rashid said

06-20-2007, 12:35 AM

QUOTESeveral Muslim leaders called on Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to find a new candidate for the largely ceremonial post of president, after accusing Pratibha Patil of insulting Islam
What's wrong with the resident President who happens to Islamic. I fail to understand as to why these muslim and UPA leaders aren't endorsing Abdul Kalam.

NDA's finally coming through: It's checkmate UPA as NDA reads writing on wall
QUOTEThe National Democratic Alliance on Tuesday favoured an all-party consensus on a second term for President A P J Abdul Kalam but made it clear that Vice President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat will be in the fray as an independent in case there is a contest.

"He (Shekhawat) has paved the way for building a consensus on Kalam. The ball is now in the Congress' court," said NDA spokesperson Sushma Swaraj, who denied that the Vice-President's statement implied he could withdraw from the race in the event of an election.


PM meets Kalam

3rd front to meet Kalam

ramana · (This post was last modified: 06-20-2007, 09:57 PM by ramana.)

While the media is running amok with Mrs Patil's remarks about the purdah system it is interesting to hear the comments from the Ummah Lords. Truly antediluvian.

And we should thank her for being forthright in her opinions and she did not keep quiet as she was announced as the UPA candidate.

06-20-2007, 10:05 AM

06-20-2007, 06:06 PM

Itâs not about her - SHOBHAA DE

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/34025.html

Can we please appraise Pratibha Patil without this stifling regional tokenism and gender symbolism

The presidential election is beginning to come out of my ears. Like a lot of people, Iâve reached a stage when I feel like screaming, âJust get on with it â but spare us the tamasha.â The latest embarrassment to derail the anointment of Pratibha Patil involves her comments on the purdah. If the lady doesnât know her history, one wonders whether her knowledge of geography is stronger. Would she be able to defend our borders as the commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces? Someone aptly described her nomination as a âmonumental jokeâ being played on the nation by Sonia Gandhi. Itâs likely to turn into a joke that backfires if the lady does in fact waltz into the Rashtrapati Bhavan. Though, going by the lack of enthusiasm even within Congress party ranks (and her purdah faux pas), she may just make it easier for the pro-Kalam or pro-Shekhawat lobby to rush past her in the final run-up.

The real tragedy in this debacle is not Pratibha Patil per se â poor thing, she is once again playing a familiar role of handmaiden to the Gandhis. It is the abject denigration of the post itself. From the sublime to the ridiculous, to the downright shabby, the pathetic wheeling and dealing, horse trading and lobbying that have scarred this election, this is nothing short of an insult to the high office. Kahan Radhakrishnan aur kahan Pratibhatai! Besides, nobody cares, nor is anyone convinced with the overnight âimage makeoverâ attempts to position and sell her as the ultimate Bharatiya Naari â a shining symbol of womenâs empowerment. What a bogus claim. And as phony and suspect as the nomination itself.

Letâs face it, Pratibha Patil has been pulled out of her mothballed existence and shoved into the spotlight for one reason alone â she is the most accommodating and pliant of the uninspiring bunch that make up the list. She will ensure the safety of the seats of her political masters if it ever comes to that. Lacklustre? Of course. But loyal and obedient â prized attributes given the sensitivity (and fragility) of the numbers game. What if...? Yes, indeed, what if a situation does arise when a crucial presidential vote would decide the fate of the government? Will Pratibhtai have the credentials to take an independent, non-partisan stand? Will she dare to snub Sonia Gandhi and rise above party politics? Put the country first?

It is meaningless to argue the lady deserves a shot at it, or to be asked why we are writing her off without giving her a fair chance. My point is: can we afford such a luxury? If we are being asked to extend our generosity and âgive her a chanceâ, why not be still more large-hearted and give Bhairon Singh Shekhawat the same chance?

Sorry, this isnât about either petty nit-picking or witch-hunting. The truth is, most Indians donât know who Pratibha Patil is. And what they have come to know, post-nomination, has left them cold. I wish I could get excited over a former table tennis champion or someone who organised kho-kho and kabbadi matches during her college days. There is nothing impressive or remarkable about any of her touted âachievementsâ. But the problem is, any voiced criticism against the lady is seen as a strike against women.

Come on, letâs leave phony sisterhood and solidarity out of this. It angers me each time a feminist angle is introduced into the debate. A true feminist will never endorse the wrong woman, for that itself goes against the tenets of empowerment. Unfortunately, gender has been superimposed in this case, and an attempt is being made to damn any woman who does not automatically sing hosannahs to Pratibhatai. I resent this sort of manipulation. Call me anti-women, if you wish, I feel like telling these newly-minted champions of stree shakti, but I will not join the chorus singing Taiâs praises.

Where was she all these years? Has anyone heard a peep out of her during numerous debates dealing with atrocities against women? What has she done that is pro-women? Has she raised her voice even once? Not that I know of. So, can we please leave gender out of this, for it communicates the wrong message. Patilâs accident of birth as a female is being flaunted as a badge of honour. God help us. By that definition, any and every woman of India qualifies for the prestigious post.

Letâs be upfront about this. Pratibha Patil simply does not have what it takes to be the President of India. As for all that rubbish regarding her simplicity, spare me the baloney. As if a khadi sari is the ultimate or only description of simplicity! Khadi happens to be one of the most high maintenance fabrics in the country. Ladies who make khadi their big statement invest a lot of money in it. Soniaâs saris are homespun too. But are they cheap? Half the women in India wouldnât be able to afford these designer khadi one-offs. So, letâs not delude ourselves. Forget about her lack of a Page 3 presence, thatâs the least of her problems. Can she make it to Page 1, without most of her countrymen asking, âWhoâs she?â Itâs time we grew up and stopped playing immature games of tokenism, symbolism, etc. The important thing is to rise above any and every kind of ism, from feminism to regionalism. Just because I am a woman and a Maharashtrian, should I support Pratibhatai? No way.

If Pratibha Patil does make it to Rashtrapati Bhavan, how will it benefit the women of India? Will it lead to fewer thrashings, beatings, torture, murders? Give me a break. This 73-year-old lady deserves to spend her retirement years with more dignity than as a puppet of her long-term patrons. Zail Singh had his jhaddoo. What will Pratibhatai use? Her pallav?

06-20-2007, 06:22 PM

she did not say Mugal. She said 'Muslim Invaders'. These were the words:

QUOTEâMaharana Pratap always ensured that women had a status in society. Women have always been respected in the Indian culture. The purdah system was introduced to protect them from the Muslim invaders. However, times have changed. India is now independent and hence, the systems should also change.â

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/33972.html

ramana · 06-20-2007, 10:11 PM

So the PTI and all the other news agencies changed her remarks from 'Muslim' invaders to 'Mughal' invaders for the benefit of the urban English readers. Why did they distort her essage? Was it self-censorship? Are Mughal more palatable than Muslims? The pdf image that was posted in the Islamism thread shows the evolution of the veil/ghoonghat in North India.

Also Shobe De is wrong. Mrs. Prathiba Patil is no hand maiden of the Gandhis. She spoke her mind which she had to keep suppressed all along. She shows she can think and feel the same thoughts as anyone else.

QUOTEPatilâs purdah remark courts controversy
Express News ServicePosted online: Tuesday, June 19, 2007 at 0000 hrs PrintÂ Email
JAIPUR, JUNE 18: Once a non-controversial Governor of Rajasthan, UPA-Left candidate for the Presidential elections, Pratibha Patil now finds herself in the centre of controversy. Her remark on the purdah system at a function in Udaipur on monday has upset Muslim leaders. Patil had said that the purdah was introduced to save women from Muslim invaders.

Patil was in Udaipur to attend a function held to mark the 467th birth anniversary of Maharana Pratap. When addressing the gathering, she said: âMaharana Pratap always ensured that women had a status in society. Women have always been respected in the Indian culture. The purdah system was introduced to protect them from the Muslim invaders. However, times have changed. India is now independent and hence, the systems should also change.â

Patil said that doing away with the purdah systemâwhich still continues in the stateâand many other traditional practices will ensure that women are respected in society. âNow that women are progressing in every field, we should morally support and encourage them by leaving such practices behind,â she added.

While historians disagree with Patilâs statement on the purdah system, local Muslim leaders are upset. Varsha Joshi of the Institute of Rajasthan Studies said that the separate zanana practices were prevalent in the state even during the 11th Century, much before Muslim invaders entered India. âMuslims invaders had nothing to do with purdah system in Rajasthan. Here Rajput leaders did not allow their women and daughters to go out without veils,â Joshi said.

Mohammad Salim, state president of Jamat-e-Islami Hind said that it was unfortunate that Patil chose to publicly express her communal views. âHer views are so similar to those of the Sangh Parivar, which are baseless. It was quite surprisingly that Patil, who is believed to be a well-read and educated person, can have such views,â Salim said.


Further Varsha Joshi is wrong too in two counts. Arabs invaded Sind in 711 AD under Mohd Bin Qasim and held sway for over 400 years before they were swept away by the Turks around 1000AD. Is Ms Josh saying Sind was not part of the Hindu lands?

Recall that Rajasthan is on the border of Sind which was already Arabised/Islamised. So it makes sense to save the womenfolk from causal kidnapping by the Arab hordes in Sind.

ramana · 06-20-2007, 11:03 PM

BTW CB Naidu proposed APJ Kalam during the last elections to the NDA. So there is a possibility that he will do the needful to break the opposition to Kalam. Kalam re-election is a necessity for CBN to revive his popularity as otherwise it will be difficult to regain AP for TDP.

Now that Ms Patil has had her say on Muslim invaders she wont be so desirable for the UPA 'secular' members. They might be persuaded to rally round a second term for Kalam with NDA support offcourse.

Can some one do the detailed math to get to 51% of electoral college?

06-21-2007, 02:55 AM

ramana, post independence Indian don't consider or never strike their mind that Pakistan was part of Hindustan. Some pre Independence people from now-Pakistan, who after migrating or forced to move into India call themselves Pakis not Indians even now,. Joshi is product of that mind set; I don't think she had ever studied History other than narrated by Irfan or Thapar.

06-21-2007, 02:58 AM

QUOTEJaya stays away from UNPA meeting with Kalam 
Agencies | Chennai/New Delhi
AIADMK chief Jayaram Jayalalithaa today stayed away from scheduled meeting of third front leaders with President APJ Abdul Kalam in order to persuade him to contest for a second term for the top post

She cancelled her trip to Delhi today at the last minute on reports that Kalam may not be in favour of contesting election in the backdrop of lack of a political consensus on him. AIADMK leaders M Thambidurai and K Malaichami will represent the delegation to meet Kalam in her stead along with other leaders like Mulayam Singh Yadav, Amar Singh, Chandrababu Naidu and Om Prakash Chautala.

Two days ago, the newly formed alliance leaders at a conclave at Chennai hosted by Jayalalithaa sprang a surprise by proposing a second term for Kalam, a development that was welcomed by Vice-President Bhairon Singh Shekhawat who expressed his readiness to quit the race if there was consensus on Kalam.

On the other hand, the UPA-Left combination has already started endorsing Pratibha Patil's candidature for the election

06-21-2007, 03:04 AM

QUOTECBN to revive his popularity as otherwise it will be difficult to regain AP for TDP.
CBN is history, keeping all power to himself is destroying his party and now he can't keep his party men. Only YSR complete stupidity can bring him to power.

06-21-2007, 03:50 AM

Third Front leaders to meet Karat, Bardhan
QUOTELeaders of the Third Front will meet Left leaders Prakash Karat and A B Bardhan and NCP chief Sharad Pawar tomorrow as part of their efforts to evolve a consensus on a second term for President A P J Abdul Kalam.

06-21-2007, 09:46 PM

QUOTEà¤¨à¤ à¤¦à¤¿à¤²à¥à¤²à¥à¥¤ à¤°à¤¾à¤à¤¦ à¤ªà¥à¤°à¤®à¥à¤ à¤²à¤¾à¤²à¥ à¤ªà¥à¤°à¤¸à¤¾à¤¦ à¤¯à¤¾à¤¦à¤µ à¤¨à¥ à¤°à¤¾à¤·à¥à¤à¥à¤°à¤ªà¤¤à¤¿ à¤ªà¤¦ à¤ªà¤° à¤¸à¤à¤¯à¥à¤à¥à¤¤ à¤°à¤¾à¤·à¥à¤à¥à¤°à¥à¤¯ à¤à¤ à¤¬à¤à¤§à¤¨ à¤¦à¤² à¤à¥ à¤à¤ªà¥à¤² à¤à¥ à¤ à¥à¤à¤°à¤¾à¤¤à¥ à¤¹à¥à¤ à¤à¤¹à¤¾ à¤¹à¥ à¤à¤¿ à¤à¤²à¤¾à¤® à¤à¥ à¤¶à¤¾à¤²à¥à¤¨à¤¤à¤¾ à¤à¥ à¤¸à¤¾à¤¥ à¤°à¤¿à¤à¤¾à¤¯à¤° à¤¹à¥ à¤à¤¾à¤¨à¤¾ à¤à¤¾à¤¹à¤¿à¤à¥¤ http://www.jagran.com/news/details.aspx?id=3483712

Laloo' advice to Dr. Kalam - please retire with dignity.
(while the likes of Laloo can continue)

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