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06-28-2007, 04:09 AM

QUOTEÂ PM comes to Pratibha's rescue as charges continue to pile up
Pioneer News Service | New Delhi
... but fails to address allegations against her family

As disturbing disclosures about UPA presidential nominee Pratibha Patil's family in various irregularities continued to pour in by the hour, a rattled Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Wednesday stepped in for much-needed damage control exercise.Â Â

The Prime Minister rubbished as "mudslinging" charges of financial irregularities against her saying there was no allegation against her personally.

Singh said there were many other sugar mills in Maharashtra which faced financial problems and it was not proper to target Pratibha for the same. 

"It is mudslinging," he told mediapersons here when asked about allegations about default of Rs 17 crore loan taken by a factory headed by her till a decade back.

Talking to mediapersons after releasing a book at his residence, Singh said there was no allegation against Pratibha as a person.

Singh's defence of Pratibha failed to address many critical questions raised by the media about the linkage of her family members in the collapse of the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank, which lent Rs 2.2 crore to Pratibha's family members, and later had to be liquidated. Pratibha was the founding chairperson of the bank and was also one of its directors.

While giving a clean chit to Pratibha, the Prime Minister was silent on the fact that Pratibha Patil is one of the 34 respondents in an ongoing case in the Aurangabad bench of the Bombay High Court, which is going into the case on the alleged mismanagement of the bank and misappropriation of funds by its Managing Directors. Clearly, till the disposal of the case, Pratibha Patil could not be entirely de-linked from the irregularities.

The Prime Minister's intervention comes in the midst of reports that the Left and the UPA allies were greatly disturbed by the media disclosures of the wrong-doing involving Pratibha's family members. When the report first surfaced that Pratibha Patil's brother was allegedly involved in the murder of former Jalgaon district Congress committee president in 2005, the allies had staunchly supported Pratibha. But when the reports of corruption began to pour in, most of the allies chose to remain silent. 

So far Pratibha Patil herself has not responded to the charges.

Meanwhile, the BJP has brought out a booklet containing two articles by former Minister and now Rajya Sabha member Arun Shourie listing a series of charges against Pratibha.

In another related development, CNN-IBN has reported that Pratibha's elder brother is being investigated for his role in the collapse of the cooperative bank which gave loans to her relatives.

Pratibha founded the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank in 1973 and has no connection with it now but an investigation by the TV channel found that her brother, Dilip Singh Patil, has not returned loans worth lakhs.

Dilip allegedly owes the bank Rs 8.72 lakh and his son, Kishor, has an outstanding of almost Rs 95 lakh.

If the money owed by Pratibha's relatives and acquaintances are added the defaulted amount comes to Rs 2.24 crore. The bank collapsed in 2003.

Bank employees, in a petition filed before a court, have alleged that Dilip ran up a bill of over Rs 20 lakh talking to stockbrokers in Mumbai from a phone belonging to the bank. The employees allege they collected a day's salary for a Kargil soldiers' welfare fund but the money never reached beneficiaries. The bank also lent money to the Muktabai Cooperative Sugar Factory, which too was set up by Pratibha and is now defunct.

A report by the Reserve Bank of India says the women's cooperative bank was run in a manner detrimental to the interests of depositors.

The cooperative bank had no loan policy and the credit appraisal system was not satisfactory. The board made no attempt to improve the bank's financial status and bring it out of its weak position.

No member of the board had any experience in either banking or management.

Government employee Krishnan Chowdhury, who used the cooperative bank for his salary account, blames Pratibha for his loss. "The bank was being run in Pratibha Patil's name, so she is responsible. We must get the Rs 11 lakh owed to us." CNN-IBN quoted Chowdhury as saying

No surprise Moron Singh is supporting Kargil Fund chor.

06-28-2007, 08:06 AM

QUOTEAnd don't forget: there is the husband too 
Arun Shourie
The trouble with women's empowerment is that, carried away, people forget that there is the husband too!

Till yesterday, the bio-data of Pratibha Patil acclaimed her as the Founder-Chairperson of the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank. Suddenly, we are told she has had no connection with it since 1994! Till yesterday her bio-data stated that she is 'The Chief Promoter and Chairperson of a Sugar Factory in Jalagaon District.' Suddenly, we are to believe that she has had no connection with this factory either â certainly not since it closed its doors having swallowed Rs. 20 crore in unpaid loans.

That leaves her strenuous endeavours for education. We have already had a glimpse of the Engineering College . But there are also the schools.The staff is bitter. To illustrate their plight, they bring documents that nail how a teacher was treated; how he was driven to suicide; and how the husband of Pratibha Patil,Â Devisingh Shekhawat and his associates have been keeping justice at bay

The painful sequence
Committed as they are to education, 'especially of women', as her bio-data continually reminds us, Pratibha Patil and Family have set up a society which runs some schools. Devisingh Shekhawat is the President of the society. He is also the Accused No. 1 in the case that I am about to summarise.

Kisan Dhage joined the school run by the Shekhawats in 1977. He worked as an Assistant Teacher. After prolonged privation and harassment, on 15 November 1998, he took his life by swallowing poison.

The police were called. As they examined the body in the presence of witnesses, they discovered in his pocket a suicide note that Dhage had written in his own hand. They also found a stamp-paper â Dhage had written out on it also the painful account of events that were leading him to take his own life.

He set out how he had been harassed and mentally tortured for long by Devisingh and his associates. His salary was not paid. His pleas for credit from the credit society that is run by the education society that runs the schools were turned down. The forms to enable his son to take the examination for scholarship were blockedâ¦ The family was driven to starvationâ¦

Eventually, they dubbed him 'surplus', and transferred him to a far-off school. It turned out that there was no vacancy for a teacher's position in this school. Dhage was shoved around and told to supervise the hostel, such as it was. In despair, Dhage wrote to the Social Welfare Department in Amravati . On 27 January, 1998, the Social Welfare Officer at Amravati , wrote to the school management saying that the transfer was illegal as there was no vacancy for the position of a teacher in the school to which the hapless man had been driven. The Officer, therefore, withheld sanction for the transfer.

To beat him into submission, Devisingh and associates completely stopped paying the salary of Dhage. He received nothing from September 1997. Being a family of little means, they were at their tether's end. Dhage appealed to the Nagpur Bench of the Bombay High Court for relief â there is no vacancy for a teacher in this school, they have sent me here, they have stopped paying any remuneration, we are at the point of starvationâ¦ Such were his pathetic pleas.

The application was filed on 19 January, 1998. But the wheels of justice move at deliberate speed. The order of the High Court did not come till 8 October 1998. By now a year had passed since the family had received any pay at all.

The High Court ordered Devisingh and associates to take Dhage back as teacher and to pay his salary. It also directed them to pay arrears since 25 August 1997.

Dhage kept going to the management. He waited upon these high and mightily-connected personages. His health broke down. He applied for medical leave â he attached a medical certificate with his application. His request even for medical leave was rejected peremptorily.

Nothing moved them. In spite of the High Court's direction, Devisingh and Co. refused to pay him anything. Dhage's colleagues were aghast. But helpless.

The family had to turn to moneylenders. They had to sell the wife's few ornaments. But now there was little left even to sellâ¦

Unable to secure food for his wife and children, crushed by the insolence of these heartless people, around 10 in the morning on 15 November, 1998, Dhage swallowed poison and killed himself.

The police recorded the panchnama. It took the suicide note, the stamp paper and all. The body was taken away. The viscera were removed for examination.

And then, full stop. 

Dhage's widow, Mangalbai, filed a complaint. Police looked the other way.

Mangalbai then approached the local court. For two painful years she kept being knocked from pillar to post.

Eventually, the Court ruled. It set out the entire sequence: the harassment; the illegal transfer; the stoppage of salary to beat the man into submission; the order of the High Court that the salary as well as the arrears be paidâ¦ In spite of the High Court order 'not even a single penny' has been paid, the Court noted. After examining witnesses â including the police official who had examined the body, recovered the suicide note, overseen the extraction of the viscera; after studying the suicide note; after noting the wanton disregard for the order of the High Court; after seeing the wretchedness to which the family had been reduced; in a word, after going through the matter in minute detail, the Court declared that a prima facie case had indeed been made out. 'â¦

Thereafter the matter was reported to the police by the complainantÂ [Mangalbai Dhage],' the Court observed, 'â¦however, under the political pressure police did not register offence against the accusedâ¦ Complainant has proved her prima facie caseâ¦' The Court directed that process be issued to Devisingh and his four associates, and proceedings be commenced against them under section 306 of the Indian Penal Code: the section that deals with 'abetment to suicide', the word 'abetment' covers pushing someone to take his own life.

That was on 6 October, 2000 â by now three years had gone since the poor man's salary had been stopped, two years since he had killed himself.

A family as devoted to education, and women's welfare, and rural development and everything good and gracious as Pratibha Patil's bio-data makes her out to be, would have immediately agreed to day-to-day hearings â to say nothing of not having such privation befall a hapless teacher and his family in the first place.

What did our friend do? He filed an appeal against the order of the Court with the Additional Sessions Judge.Â

Five years went by. Eventually the Judicial Magistrate, A.A. Nandagaonkar, delivered the judgement. It was a resounding slap on Devisingh â the plea of the poor widow was upheld in entirety. The complainant, Mangalbai, has proved the prima facie case against the accused â Devisingh and associates. 'Therefore, I am of the opinion that issuance of process against the accused is necessary. Hence, as such enquiry made by me upon going through the facts and circumstances of the matter and evidence adduced by the complainant is sufficient enough to proceed against the accused for commission of offence u/s 306 r[ead]/w[ith] 34 of the IPC.'

That was on 22 July, 2005 â seven years had gone by since Dhage had been compelled to take his life.

At least now, you would think, our friend would let justice proceed. But you reckon without our would-be First Man of the Republic. He filed an appeal in the High Court!

On 26 December, 2005, the High Court passed an order directing the local Court to examine the grounds that Devisingh and associates had now given against the order and dispose of the revision application within three months.

Lawyers were fielded. They fielded lawyerly arguments â the complainant had listed 16 witnesses, but she had examined only 7; the lower Court erred in concluding that a prima facie case had been made outâ¦ As is their custom, lawyers cited a series of judgements.

In a third stinging slap, the reviewing judge concluded that Devisingh and Co. had no ground for their appeal at all. He showed that the elaborate judgements that Devisingh's lawyers had cited, that each and every one of them in fact fortified what the original Court had done. The evidence that had been adduced, the sequence of events that had been brought on record, the Judge ruled, 'are sufficient enough to inspire [sic.] that these accused had abetted Mr. Kisan Dhage to commit suicide by creating unbearable situation for his survival and also making him unable to maintain his family members.' 'The series of facts alleged in the complaint also inspire [sic.] that all these accused are in collusion with each other and therefore as far as the question of prima facie case is concerned, there are sufficient grounds brought on record before the learned lower courtâ¦'

This order came on 7 February, 2007 â that poor Assistant Teacher had been driven to his death in November 1998 â¦ The trial is yet to commence.

Wouldn't you say that Devisingh Shekhawat, husband of Pratibha Patil, the prospective First Man of the Republic of India , has already succeeded? The pathetic teacher gone? The widow worn to exhaustio n. And he about the enter the portals of Rashtrapati Bhavanâ¦

ramana · 06-28-2007, 10:06 PM

So who are the VP candidates for the two groupings?

06-29-2007, 05:25 AM

Congress is doing what is does best , destroying every fine Indian insititution. Congressi have no shame or sense of honor. <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' />

06-29-2007, 08:48 AM

INDIAN PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION 2007 - REDUCED TO A ZERO SUM GAME
(Addressed to All Indians Who Can Feel, See, Hear and Who Care)

That the downslide in the Indian polity, which has been going on for many years, is fast reaching its nadir is borne out by the manner in which the selection of the President has been conducted by the political class and, furthermore, the style in which electioneering is being orchestrated. A quick glance first at the selection procedure.

The Selectors Cabal
- The Ruling Party. Not more than half-a-dozen people who call the shots, all vying with each other to show their loyalty to the dynasty; are rewarded accordingly. The present head of the dynasty having already reduced the stature of the Prime Minister to its lowest point since Independence would now like to create a similar dependency in the Rashtrapati Bhawan. Concern for the national interest or the dignity of the highest office was never a consideration. To quote the media, the ultimate choice, where due diligence evidently had not taken place, was the lowest common denominator in the search for consensus within the UPA.
- The UPA (or the governing coalition). The coalition partners were generally willing to follow the ruling Congress provided there were to be a consensus within the UPA. The major wreckers of the consensus within UPA were the Left parties led by the CPM.
- The Left Parties. The principal wreckers who have ceaselessly undermined government consensus on practically every major issue. Again the decision-making cabal comprised less than six people.
- The Principal Opposition Party. One point agenda to try and foist a person most suited to their right wing ideology. The cabal at the top comprising doddering old leaders of yesteryear who simply will not let younger people come up to revive the decline in the party. Their own fossilisation resulted in the selection of a candidate who is older than their tired selves.
- The leader of the BSP. Reaches agreement with the Congress leader on mutually beneficial considerations (well documented by the media). Neither leader interested in a person of eminence and integrrity becoming the President.
- The Other Political Parties (collectively calling themselves the Third Front). A motley group; the less said about their concern for dignity,decorum or concern for the national interest the better.
- Common to all the political parties (mentioned above). Zero inner party democracy or consultation with the rank and file. No concern for what the people of India are saying or feel about the nationally humiliating political machinations.
- The Present Incumbent. Had won the respect of the nation. Was immensely popular. Could have gone out in a blaze of glory. At the end of the day slipped from the pedestal and barely remained standing. His predecessor, another respected figure who had conducted himself with dignity throughtout his presidential tenure fell from grace under exactly similar circumstances.

We The People of India (The Largest Democracy in the World). Had absolutely no role to play in the selection process. The political class was and remains totally immune to the voice of the overwhelming law-abiding, non-agitating, non-rabble rousing majority. Technically, since the party cabals have taken over, the people of India, at this stage of the election, are as removed from the process of electing the president as would be an astronaut sitting on the moon watching the process without in any way being able to affect it. In other words just about thirty people (the cabalists), perhaps each one having several skeletons in his or her cupboard, and many of whom are known to have subverted and continue to subvert the legal process, will decide the outcome, completely disregarding the views of one billion plus Indians. Reduced to its essentials this is the stark reality which the people of India, the Election Commission and the Courts must face. The system worked reasonably well the way it was designed when the legislators who form the Electoral College were people of standing and when such a large percentage of them were not criminals, bootleggers, mafia dons, tax-dodgers, smugglers of people, currency, goods and the like. Evidently, something needs to be done before the next presidential election.

NOW COMING TO THE MEDIA
The very manner of choosing the candidates selected by the political cabal was such that everybody was kept guessing till almost the very end. It might have been deliberate, or there might have been other reasons, including the difficulty of arriving at a consensus. Therefore, due diligence about the candidates could not be carried out - an essential exercise in any democracy for the persons likely to occupy the highest office in the country. It resulted in the media trying to dig up every bit of dirt on the candidate most likely to carrry the day - in this case, as things stand, Mrs. Pratibha Patil. To tabulate the accusations, or besmirchment attempts to date by the opposition politicians and the media and other interested parties, these have been described as:
- She felt that the time had come to remove the veil. She quoted or misquoted or partially quoted historical texts. The result: the main proposer the Congress Party felt embarrassed. Muslim clergy were quick to take offence. Mrs Patil tried to cover her confusion.
- Mrs Patil, while a minister in the State government was a strong votary of population stabilisation. She is supposed to have said that, "those who objected on grounds of religion should be ignored, because the need of the hour (according to her) was family planning, it being the highest religion (of prime importance) for India. She has been pilloried on this score as well.
- Activities related to her Trust that cannot stand scrutiny. They show her in very poor light.
- She believes in spirits, having attended the session that was run by the Brahmakumaris in Mt. Abu.

Comments of Citizens not party to media denigration, exposures or partisan politics.
- Mrs. Patil would actually be congratulated by most non-partisan Indians for having taken the lead in saying that the time has come for the women of India to be emancipated. That is the essence of her comment, even if the historical context can be questioned. The fact is that the objections have generally come from the hardliners, the Muslim clergy and opposition members. Who has bothered to take a sounding of how the veiled and oppressed women, often treated as chattel, actually feel about Mrs. Patil's statement?
- Family Planning. Mrs. Patil should get full marks if she made that statement and if she still holds those views. It is the prime concern for India, which most politicians have shied away from. India has one of the highest low birth weight indices in the world. Malnourished, mentally retarded children can be seen in practically every slum and bustee in the country. The majority of the women in the slums do not want so many children. Most of them simply keep coming, because of the nightly onslaught of the drunken male, and because family planning facilities have not reached them.
- She believes in spirits or mediums. What a travesty of facts. She attended a session where thousands others were present. On coming out she was confronted by the media and perhaps did not want to offend the people who invited her or did not know how her remarks would be construed. Whatever her inner feelings or beliefs, is she not entitled to them? Incidentally, the organisation that invited her at Mt. Abu is accredited to the United Nations and had been invited to set up their representation in New York. Mr. Kofi Annan, the previous Secretary General is known to have showered praise on them. Before the last general election that brought the Congress Party to power, its leader visited Mt. Abu to meet the same Dadis. President Kalam and some of the most eminent people from around the world who have had interaction with the Brahmakumaris have been very effusive in their praise. Hardly anybody who comes into contact with the Dadis, many in their eighties, can fail to be impressed by their humaneness, childlike purity and spirituality. Their dedication has allowed the organisation to set up thousands of centres in over 90 countries. So much for mischievous media comments.
- The way her Trust was run leaves much to be desired. This is indeed a very serious allegation. If proved, should in normal circumstances lead to her opting out of the race.
All things being equal and seeing that practically all politicians of today (barring a handul of honourable exceptions) have many more skeletons in their cupboard and are party to illegalities of far more serious nature if investigated, or allowed to be investigated, the question that should be uppermost is, "seeing that there are only two serious contenders left in the fray, how far should the media go in continuously denigrating the lady, who all things said and done, has a very dignified bearing, and who for her entire political life has comported herself with dignity and decorum, something that is alien to most of our politicians today". Because if the process is carried too far and in the process she is pulverised to a degree that there is no respect left for the person how will she be able to discharge her presidential duties in the years to come. It being probable that she is the candidate most likely to succeed a thought should be given to this aspect by the media. Meanwhile, the people of India have to find a way out of the political mire into which a reasonable electoral system has now been pushed. Will this become the norm or is there a way out?

Vinod Saighal
*Convenor MRGG (Movement for Restoration of Good Government
June 27, 2007
------------------------------------------------
Maj. Gen. (Retd) Vinod Saighal, Author: Third Millennium Equipoise, Restructuring South Asian Security, Restructuring Pakistan, Dealing with Global Terrorism: The Way Forward and Global Security Paradoxes 2000-2020.

(Information relating to books can be accessed from: www.vinodsaighal.com & www.amazon.com)

06-29-2007, 09:40 AM

06-29-2007, 04:55 PM

in e-mail:

QUOTEIn a classroom of India, an atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on
the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students
to stand and.....

Prof: So you believe in God?
Student: Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student: Sure.

Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student: Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal
him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God
didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
(Student is silent.)

Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fellow. Is God
good?
Student: Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student: No.

Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student: From...God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student: Yes.

Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student: Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
Student does not answer.

Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these
terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student: Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
Student has no answer.

Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the
world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student: No, sir.

Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have
you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student: No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student: Yes.

Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science
says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student: Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.

Student: Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student: And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student: No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)

Student: Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega
heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything
called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we
can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure
cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the
absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)

Student: What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student: You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something.
You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light....But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's
called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you
would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?

Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student: Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?

Student: Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there
is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are
viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity
and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either
one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact
that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the
opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you
teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?

Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of
course, I do.
Student: Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir? (The
Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the
argument is going.)
Student: Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
(The class is in uproar.)

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's
brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain,
felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So,
according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due
respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student: That is it sir... The link between man & God is FAITH. That is
all that keeps things moving & alive.

****************

WHO THAT STUDENT WAS?
This is a true story, and the student was none other than...
Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, the present president of India .

Husky · (This post was last modified: 06-29-2007, 06:10 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(Bodhi @ Jun 29 2007, 04:55 PM)in e-mail:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIn a classroom of India, an atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on
the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new students
to stand and.....
[...]

Student: Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's
brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student: Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain,
felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So,
according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable
protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due
respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face
unfathomable.)

Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student: That is it sir... The link between man & God is FAITH. That is
all that keeps things moving & alive.

****************

WHO THAT STUDENT WAS?
This is a true story, and the student was none other than...
Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam, the present president of India .
[right][snapback]70633[/snapback][/right]</div>Bodhi, the modern motif of "the atheist professor trumped by the believing student" is a famous one in American christoislamic circles where attempts at atheist-bashing is a passtime the scary believers have. It's a huge fraud.
See some original examples:
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/...m_urb_chalk.htm
http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/c/chalk.htm

No atheist who's thought his position through - professor or otherwise - would ever ever be fool enough to say "you'll have to take it on faith". (In fact, I can't imagine anyone from any religion - other than christoislamism - would reach for the faith excuse.) Anyway, if such a professor existed, he could just have offered to take the students to see a scan of his brain... he'd never say 'have faith'....
This tale is very much indicative of some simple-minded person inventing something. Also look at the entire story: setup, beginning, middle, climax/tear-down. It's obviously a story, not merely narrated as one.

Also, which atheist teacher in India - except in a christian school I suppose (do they employ atheists in India's christian schools; islamic schools certainly wouldn't) - would ask about satan? Other schools wouldn't mention any satans, I don't think.

Ask your email correspondent to prove that Abdul Kalam had that experience or else to stop creating slander. Abdul Kalam has too great a brain to hide behind a non-argument like 'faith'. (Faith is belief with no reason - it's belief in something in spite of evidence to the contrary... Faith is the christoislamic excuse, and the most famous statement they hide behind.)

And I cannot accept that Abdul Kalam would ever doubt evolution (unless and until he states it in an official capacity to the public). What slander against our worthy President.

06-29-2007, 05:37 PM

yep! thanks Husky.

06-29-2007, 10:35 PM

Patil does a U-turn on veil, Mughals QUOTENewspaper reports quote president of Jamiat Ulama-e-Hind Maulana Arshad Madani as saying that Patil told him âjust the oppositeâ of what she had said in her speech in Udaipur.

Madani was among the prominent Muslim leaders â including senior Congress leader Hasan Ahmad and former Delhi Mayor Talat Sultan â who met her on Tuesday to express their opinions on the issue
.............

In what is being seen as an effort to appease the minorities to garner votes for her Presidential elections, Patil reportedly told Madani that âMughals respected women so much that the introduced the purdah.â

Reports quote Madani as saying that he was impressed with her explanation. He also expressed his satisfaction over the fact that the presidential nominee tried to clear the air about the controversy.

Here comes Madam idiot with her own logic. Now she is suggesting her family don't respect her because she is not using Burqa.
She is working with known Islamist.

And joker Shiv Sena are behind her.

So New India's Preisdent will not only be joker, liar, Kargil fund chor, married to criminal but third rated moron. She will beat other Moron Singh hands down.

ramana · 06-29-2007, 10:47 PM

The UPA is trying to reduce the office of the President to a nothing- a farce. The PM has already been reduced to that. Now its the turn of the Head of the State in order to negate the idea of India. The INC always had a problem with the office of the President since Rajendra Prasad and tried to nominate nonentities to the post. However the post is such that it confers stature and even weakminded people have become assertive in that position and acted Presidential. The Patil nomination is to reduce the office such that it loses credibility in times of need which are expected to be around the corner.

BTW here is The Tribune on Pawar plays

<img src='http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070629/edit.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

ramana · 06-29-2007, 10:58 PM

From Tribune, June 29, 2007
QUOTEEmergency, 32 years on
Slow variation in public perception
by Inder Malhotra 

COME the last week of June and thoughts of many Indians turn to Indira Gandhiâs Emergency whose 32nd anniversary fell of Tuesday. It was, unquestionably, a hammer-blow to Indian democracy and a nineteen-month nightmare for those who had to live through it. With a single stroke of a pliable Presidentâs pen, the worldâs largest democracy was converted into a tin-pot dictatorship.

Repression across the land, particularly in North India, was harsh and humiliating. At least 100, 000 people, including almost all Opposition leaders and some Congressmen, were hauled to jail without trial. All fundamental rights were in abeyance, including the right to life. Niren Dey, Attorney-General of that day, chillingly told a stunned Supreme Court bench that as long as the Emergency lasted, there was no remedy âif a policeman chose to shoot a citizenâ. Sadly, there was no dearth of judges willing to be suborned and safe. As for the performance of the Press - there was no private TV channel then - Mr L. K. Advaniâs famous taunt, âyou chose to crawl when you were asked only to bendâ, says it all.

My starkest memory of the day the heavy lid of the Emergency was clamped on India is that there was not a squeak of protest against it. The Cabinet, kept in the dark about the event, met very early the next morning meekly to endorse the fait accompli. What a startling contrast this was to the crescendo of noise, lasting many months, that those agitating for Indiraâs removal had been making. The rallying point of the seemingly powerful agitation was the respected Gandhian leader, Jayaprakash Narayan, better known as JP. He, all Opposition leaders and their serried ranks were confident that after the Allahabad High Courtâs judgment and its âconditional stayâ by the Supreme Court, she had no option but to throw in the towel. They eloquently said so at a public meeting in Delhi on the evening of June 25 at which excitement ran sky-high. Hours later, when they were roused from their beds and hauled to prison, they did not know what had hit them.

Surprisingly, the Emergency remained reasonably popular for quite a while or was submitted to with varying degrees of sullenness. Deep anger against it, though no great resistance to it, began only after city slums started to be demolished and their inhabitants âresettledâ far away. Infinitely worse was Sanjay Gandhiâs drive to control the population by coercing men of all ages to undergo vasectomies, especially in Delhi and northern states. In the words of a U.P. Congressman during the 1977 poll, the vasectomies had become for the Congress the âgreased cartridges of 1857â.

The country hailed Indira Gandhiâs defeat â both she and her son Sanjay lost personally, too â as a ârevolution by the ballot boxâ. If so, it turned out to be the revolution that was devoured by its children. The Janata Party that replaced her regime had come to power amidst tremendous goodwill. But so abysmal was its performance and so deadly the dissensions within it, that the Janata fell like ninepins and Indira Gandhi was spectacularly back in power in 33 months flat. However, she may have regained the peopleâs vote but the Indian intelligentsia remained bitterly and irreconcilably hostile to her even after her
assassination in 1984.

No wonder then that year after year, on the Emergencyâs anniversary, she was lambasted in the strongest possible terms. Even two years ago on June 26, Mr Advani not only lashed out against her but also alleged, rather absurdly, that the United Progressive Alliance government of Dr Manmohan Singh was developing an âemergency mindsetâ and might declare one soon. To his great embarrassment, Mr George Fernandes, the convener of the BJP-led National Democratic Alliance, and Mr Chandra Shekhar, who also spent the entire Emergency period in jail, flatly contradicted Mr Advani.

This was the first major indication of the gradual change in the publicâs view of the Emergency and Indira Gandhi that has since escalated. In public opinion poll after public opinion poll, she has been voted the âbest Prime Minister India has hadâ. Could this have happened had the Indian intelligentsia remained as critical of the Emergency as it used to be? Doubtless, the perspective on the Emergency has changed materially, and for good reasons even though some might yet dispute this. 

The most important reason is that two-thirds of todayâs Indians were born in and after 1975. They know little about the Emergency and care even less. Secondly, the entirely polemical and partisan writings on the Emergency that held sway for long years have yielded place to some sober, scholarly work. Consequently, while not forgetting the unmerited and often horrible sufferings inflicted on people, thinking persons have begun to recognise that if Indira Gandhi was sinning, politically speaking, she was also being sinned against. Even some of his admirers have started accepting that saintly J P was wrong in appealing to the Army and the police to disobey the Indira government.

Objective and eminent historians such as Bipan Chandra have quoted chapter and verse to prove that both the Prime Minister and J P were equally responsible for the imposition of the Emergency and what happened during it. Each had lost confidence in the good faith of the other completely. Both stretched the democratic norms, from different ends, so hard that something was bound to give.

In 2000, the leading sociologist, Andre Beteille, one of the staunch opponents of the Emergency, disputed the view of the âlarge sections of the intelligentsiaâ that Indira was the âvillainâ of the Emergency, and JP its âheroâ. He argued instead that the âanarchyâ promoted by J P in the name of âtotal revolutionâ and the âabuse of powerâ by the Prime Minister and her son Sanjay were but the âtwo sides of the same coinâ. There is much greater acceptance of his view today than then.

Three other factors are even more crucial. First, Indira Gandhi redeemed herself by ordering elections in 1977, entirely on her own, and gracefully yielding power after losing them. Second, ugly though the Emergency was, India in 1975-77 was not at all comparable to Germany under Hitler, Russia under Stalin, China under Mao, or Pakistan under Zia or even Musharraf.

Overriding all this is that the Emergency just cannot be re-imposed. For, 1975-77 proved that India would be governed â to the extent it can be governed â democratically or not at all.


Some thing to keep in mind wrt to the Presidential elections now around the corner as I said above in the cartoon post.

ramana · 06-29-2007, 11:08 PM

Sorry one more article on the elections.

Link
QUOTEMedia Watch - M.V. Kamath

Defining the Presidentâs office

M.V. KAMATH | Friday, June 29, 2007 12:2:27 IST
The office of the President shouldnât be politicised, it is Indiaâs most respected post

Â Â

No matter who ultimately will become a five-year resident of Rashtrapati Bhavan, the election process is getting messier by the day. What is interesting and no less significant is that A. P. J. Kalam seems to be the darling of the people. And that has nothing to do with the Third Front choosing him as their candidate for the Presidentsâ office. Some time in mid-May a poll was conducted by ibn-live.com in collaboration with The Indian Express and Lokasatta with more than 3.4 lakh citizens logging in. the results speak a lot about Kalamâs popularity among the masses. Of the total votes cast â around 3,33,995 â as many as 1,44,140 or 43.16 percent voted for Kalam. Bhairon Singh Shekhawat won 98,318 votes or 28.44 percent. Even N. R. Narayanamurthy won 62,767 votes or 18.79 percent. The rest including Somnath Chatterjee (3.2 percent), Sushil Kumar Shinde (2.09 percent), Pranab Mukherjee (1.3 percent) and Karan Singh (0.58 percent) can be forgotten. One suspects that now another private poll may have to be taken to see where Pratibha Devisingh Patil Shekhawat stands.

Patilsâ credentials
Though, she is Shekhawat by marriage, no one has asked why she has preferred to be known strictly as Pratibha Patil or as Pratibhatai to many Maharashtrians, and not as Mrs. Shekhawat. The Congress had first chosen Pranab Mukherjee, Sushil Kumar Shinde and Karan Singh as likely candidates. With the Left Front, as usual, dictating terms, Pratibha Patil came to the fore as a surprise candidate; in the circumstances the Congress is only betraying its loose character when it seeks to damn the BJP by saying that the latter âdoes not have political grace, social commitment or the moral fiber to support Pratibhaâs candidature.â
The Congress must be taught how to use words. But Pratibha Patil has become acceptable, howsoever unwillingly, to some sections of the media. The Deccan Herald has chided the Congress for itsâ about â turn saying that while âelimination of candidates in the selection process is natural, branding candidates in unfair ways should have been avoided by the parties.â As for Congressâs choice of Pratibha Patil, the paper said that âit will truly be a historic momentâ adding âthat a woman candidate with considerable experience in public life is poised to became the head of the state should indeed be a matter of pride and satisfaction, more so since even many western countries with much longer history of democracy and womenâs empowerment are yet to have a women occupy the top elective post.â The Hinduâs edition of June 16 said that Patilâs candidature âis very difficult to faultâ and that âthe fact that a woman is likely to occupy the highest office in the land is matter of pride for the country.â In a long editorial the paper concluded by saying, âIn the absence of a new development or massive cross-voting, Ms. Patilâs election as President is certainty. She may have a low profile but her background in politics and social work would suggest she is the right symbol of the idea of the Indian state â one that is liberal, secular and progressiveâ. The Hitavada was not that ecstatic. âThe zeroing in on the name of Ms. Pratibha Patil,â it said, âas the consensus last-minute candidate of the UPA against the candidature of the present vice-president Bhairon Singh Shekhawatâ¦ as an independent backed by the NDA indicates that the office of President of India is being turned into merely a political office.â It further pointed out that âthere is also no denying the fact that involvement of too many political considerations may affect the apolitical status of the Presidentâs office.â

Defining the Presidential role

The Indian Express dated June 16, speaking in praise of President Kalam said âeven the most skeptical assessments of President Abdul Kalamâs term will have to admit that he did refashion the Presidency in a way that attracted popular interest,â and that âif he so chooses, he can successfully claim that he brought the grand imperial building in New Delhi back into mass national consciousness.â The paper added, âHe has given the institution of the Presidency a character, some distinctiveness, perhaps even some flairâ¦ in part by making his office a source of, and a host to, idealism.â The Times of Indiaâs edition dated June 16 asked; âWhy Pratibha Patil?â and answered its own question. It said: âHer choice is a compromise forced by the complex factors that shape political practice in Indiaâ¦ The search for a loyalist â meaning to the Gandhi family â is not a mere reflection of the absence of inner-party democracy in Congress, but also another indication of the decline of the partyâs nation-wide cloutâ â not a flattering comment, but it made up for that by adding: âThe symbolism of a woman becoming the common candidate of a wide spectrum of political parties is not lost in a country where women are heavily discriminated against socially.â Not exactly a very flattering tribute to either the Congress or to Ms. Patil. Piously, the paper concluded by saying that the Rashtrapathi Bhavan having been once home to remarkable educationist like Radhakrishnan, Zakir Hussain and K. R. Narayanan, âlet us hope that Patil will join their ranks.â Saamna, the Marathi paper edited by Bal Thackeray, the Shiv Sena Chief, openly opposed the candidature of Union Home Minister Shivajirao Patil wishing to know âwhat goodâ he has done for the Marathi people. But in the case of Pratibha Patil, the paper described her two qualifications; that she is a âMaharashtrianâ and a woman too. Incidentally, a distinguished Marathi editor, Kumar Ketkar, writing in The Indian Express of June 16 made the point that âhardly anyone knew that she (Pratibha Patil) was married to Devisingh Shekhawat and therefore has a Rajasthani backgroundâ and âhad not changed her name to Pratibha Shekhawat.â
Ketkar, too, had precious little praise to give to Shivraj Patil who he described as âa loner and has generally remained loyal to Indira-Rajiv-Soniaâ, something that is common between him and Pratibhatai. Ketkar also warned against anyone mistaking âPatilâ for a Maharashrian because it is a surname common among many castes, with Shivraj Patil being a Lingayat and Pratibhatai herself a Rajput- Maratha. So much for our still caste-ridden and ethnic-conscious politicians. The ultimate question will be whether Pratibha Patil will win because she is a woman or because she is qualified to win. Also much will depend upon various forces that are presently beyond oneâs reckoning with many genuinely expressing fears of cross-party voting that could affect the final results. There are quite a few who are keeping their fingers crossed.

06-30-2007, 04:08 AM

QUOTENDA seeks EC action against Patil, Congress 
Pioneer.com
PT | New Delhi
The NDA today filed its complaint with the Election Commission that the Congress was using "undue influence" on voters in the presidential election and sought "appropriate action" against the party.

In its complaint, the opposition alliance alleged that the Congress' petition for disqualification of Natwar Singh as Rajya Sabha member showed that it was using pressure tactics to secure support for UPA-Left candidate Pratibha Patil because he was a proposer to the nomination of vice-president Bhairon Singh Shekhawat.

NDA spokesperson Sushma Swaraj, who led the delegation to the Election Commission, told reporters that the Congress' claims that it was its second petition for Singh's disqualification as Rajya Sabha member because of his role in the SP's campaign in Uttar Pradesh was "false."

"We have sought appropriate action from the Election Commission," she said.

Swaraj argued that the disqualification plea came barely a day after the former union minister became a proposer to Shekhawat's candidacy.

BJP leaders Swaraj and Vijay Kumar Malhotra submitted their complaint with Election Commissioner Naveen Chawla.

06-30-2007, 04:11 AM

QUOTEPratibha's mill was involved in 2002 sugar scam 
Pioneer.com
Navin Upadhyay | New Delhi
PRATIBHAGATE
Another damning disclosure has surfaced against UPA presidential nominee Pratibha Patil. The Muktabai SSK sugar cooperative factory founded by her in 1983 not only defaulted on Rs 17.7 crore loan repayment to a bank, but was also involved in a major sugar export scam that rocked Maharashtra politics in 2002-03. Â

The scam involved diversion of export-oriented sugar in domestic market by 12 factories. In 2001-02, these co-operatives had obtained export licence for 2.28 lakh tonnes of sugar, but in collusion with export agents, diverted the sugar to the domestic market. This led to the collapse of domestic sugar prices and caused major losses to sugarcane farmers besides excise evasion of nearly Rs 80 crore.

There was no excise duty on export quota whereas for the domestic market sale the duty was Rs 85 per quintal. The diverted sugar would have fetched Rs 1,050 per quintal if exported but was sold for Rs 1,250 in the domestic market.

The Muktabai SSK sugar cooperative factory, Jalgaon, with Pratibha Patil as its founding member and chairperson, was one of the 12 companies which figured in the scam. The other companies were Kedareshwar co-operative sugar factory, Ahmednagar; Poorna co-operative sugar factory, Hingoli; Hutatma co-operative sugar factory, Hatgaon Nanded; Kisan Vir co-operative sugar factory in Bhuinj, Satara; Gangapur cooperative sugar factory, Aurangabad; Vasantdada Sugar, Kalvan, Nashik; Dongrai Sagareshwar co-operative sugar factory, Sangli and Agasti co-operative sugar factory, Ahmednagar.

What could be a source of major embarrassment for the UPA is the fact that Pratibha Patil was the chairperson of the Sant Muktabai sugar cooperative factory till she became Rajasthan Governor three years ago.

Preliminary reports by the Maharashtra Government and Central Excise officials in October 2002 had confirmed the involvement of these sugar cooperatives in the scam.

The reports had named as many as 19 co-operatives, including Muktabai sugar cooperative factory, in the scam. Majority of the factories were controlled by senior politicians and Ministers belonging to the ruling Congress-led Government. The reports called for deeper probe to identify and punish the guilty persons


UPA had puntured India's Pride.

07-01-2007, 04:42 AM

Left planning palace coup?

Swapan Dasgupta
Every political crisis throws up its share of conspiracy theories. The UPA-Left crisis of credibility over the nomination of Pratibha Patil to succeed President APJ Abdul Kalam is no exception. Over the past week, as more and more skeletons tumble out of the Pratibha cupboard, questions are being asked as to why such a dodgy individual was nominated in the first place. Equally, assuming there was no due diligence, why doesn't the Congress cut its losses, admit its mistake and take the necessary steps to dump Pratibha mid-stream? (At the time of writing there are whispers that the Congress may yet put forward a "cover" candidate who may end up as its official nominee).

All conspiracy theories invariably begin with Sonia Gandhi. Since so little is known about what she really thinks or feels - Cabinet Ministers are as clueless as the rest of the country - the Congress president lends herself to wild and incredible speculation. The first theory is that Sonia wants a malleable and vulnerable President because she has now decided to end the fiction of indirect rule and assume the mantle of the Prime Minister. Since the conspiracy theorists believed all along that her "inner voice" sprang to life after President Kalam allegedly posed some awkward questions on her citizenship, it stood to reason that she would take over her inheritance after there was a change of guard in Rashtrapati Bhavan.

The problem with this theory is that Sonia could just as easily have found a non-tainted doormat to oblige her if she so wanted. Moreover, ever since Rajiv and she got singed by Bofors, Sonia has been quite impatient with loyalists who go wayward - a fellow Italian apart. The unceremonious dumping of K Natwar Singh is a case in point. 

All the evidence suggests that no one in the Congress hierarchy was fully aware of the rot behind Pratibha's gentle exterior.

The ones who knew about it swore loyalty to the UPA in public and privately supplied the media and the Opposition details of Pratibha's abuse of patronage. When the allegations started surfacing, many Congressmen took the position that Pratibha had merely enjoyed the normal perks of power - after all, what she had done was commonplace in an organisation that had enjoyed monopoly of power in the licence-permit-quota raj. They were, of course, right.

But it is also an unwritten law of politics that those who choose the path of self-aggrandisement cannot rise to positions where they are subjected to minute scrutiny. Pratibha has not been nominated for a zilla parishad post; she has been chosen to be Head of State and Commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces.

That despite the seriousness of the allegations the Congress has persisted with its nominee tells us a great deal about political behaviour in India. Politicians, cutting across parties, think they are obliged to appear infallible. Admission of honest misjudgement is perceived as a sign of weakness and has to be countered with brazenness.

It is not merely Priya Ranjan Dasmunshi and the Congress spokesperson that are guilty. The Left has set new standards in sophistry by arguing - as AB Bardhan has done - that the revelations merely show Pratibha to be a bad manager and not an unsuitable President.

In fact, it is the Left's connivance that has prompted the second conspiracy theory. The Left, it is being suggested, is waiting for its own candidate to be elected Vice-President before joining the chorus against a "tainted" President. In other words, they hope to achieve a palace coup that will result in a Communist becoming the occupant of Rashtrapati Bhavan, if only for a few crucial months. WTF is this?

But why blame politicians alone for their lack of standards? One section of the media has, for example, conveniently blacked out the allegations against Pratibha. As for the intellectuals and eminent citizens, when it comes to taking on the Congress establishment, independence is replaced by cravenness or judicious silence.

07-01-2007, 06:46 AM

QUOTEIn fact, it is the Left's connivance that has prompted the second conspiracy theory. The Left, it is being suggested, is waiting for its own candidate to be elected Vice-President before joining the chorus against a "tainted" President. In other words, they hope to achieve a palace coup that will result in a Communist becoming the occupant of Rashtrapati Bhavan, if only for a few crucial months.Â WTF is this?
Commies are looking for Commie as a VP candidate, after announcement they will go against Patil but vote for Patil, just blackmail, as expected by low life commies. They just want to destabilize India so that both neighbors can just walk into India to rape its pride.

What Indian had done by electing these morons? Citizens of WB, TN and Kerala should think before electing these low lives again.

07-01-2007, 06:47 AM

Presidential politics of cynicism 
Sudheendra Kulkarni 
http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/203407.html

07-02-2007, 05:27 AM

QUOTEPratibha mill's Excise fraud 
Pioneer.com
Navin Upadhyay | New Delhi
Penalised; co-op registrar asked for criminal proceedings
The charges of involvement in the sugar export scam against Sant Muktabai Sugar co-operative factory, founded by UPA presidential nominee Pratibha Patil, were not merely on paper. In November 2002, the excise department recovered penalty from her company for evasion of excise duty committed by the factory in diversion of export-oriented sugar in the open market.Â Â

As more facts tumbled out of Pratibha's murky closets, the involvement of her sugar mill in the Maharashtra sugar export scam may indicate her personal involvement because she was then holding the post of founding chairperson and director.

While giving a clean chit to Pratibha Patil in the loan default committed by the Muktabai SSK, Agriculture Minister Sharad Pawar had said on June 24 that Pratibha had been its chairperson and director till she became Governor of Rajasthan in 2004.

The excise department action was not a simple case of recovering dues but it followed findings of various probes. These probe reports conclusively established Muktabai sugar co-operative factory's involvement in a mega scandal in which more than a dozen sugar co-operative factories, in connivance with exporters, diverted in the open market 2.8 lakh tonnes of sugar meant for export or sale through PDS.

After the excise and customs authorities slapped notices against these sugar co-operatives, and following irrefutable evidence of their involvement in the scam, they agreed to pay up the penalty imposed on them.

While the excise duty for the sale in domestic market was Rs 85 per quintal in addition to State sales tax and other levies, the export quota enjoyed "blanket" duty waiver. The duty evasion resulted in a revenue loss to both Central and State exchequers.

The matter did not end with the action initiated by the Excise and Custom officials to recover the duty. Amid clamour for starting criminal proceedings against these companies, the registrar of co-operatives had ordered filing of criminal complaints against boards of directors of these companies.

The Centre had also asked the State Government to initiate criminal action against the factories under Section 9 of the Essential Commodities Act of 1950. But with major political players, including four then Ministers of Congress-led Maharashtra Government involved in the scam, the matter never reached its logical conclusion.

The Muktabai sugar co-operative came under Maharashtra's Aurangabad division in which eight sugar co-operatives were involved in the scam. The amount recovered from these co-operatives, including Muktabai SSK, was Rs 3.97 crore. The other co-operatives who paid up penalty in this division were Kedareshwar, Pune, Hutatma J Patil, Niphad, Vasant Dada Patil, Agasti, Dyaneshwar, Mula, and Tarna SSKs.

In other divisions of Maharashtra, the Sahakar Maharshi Mohite Patil SSK paid Rs 1.07 crore duty against Rs 2.29 crore demanded, Shankar SSK has paid Rs 41.50 lakh against Rs 55.19 lakh demanded, Dongarai Sagareshwar paid Rs 5.15 lakh against Rs 10.47 lakh.

Pratibhagate
In November 2002, Excise department recovered penalty from Pratibha's mill for evasion of duty
Factory diverted export-oriented sugar to open market
Involvement of her mill in Maharashtra sugar export scam may indicate her personal involvement
She was then holding the post of founding chairperson and director
Sharad Pawar had said on June 24 that Pratibha had been its chairperson and director till she became Governor of Rajasthan in 2004

07-02-2007, 05:27 AM

Good job karan! <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/specool.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='specool.gif' />

QUOTE'I take no responsibility for what Pratibha does'
CNN-IBN

Karan Thapar: Hello and welcome to Devilâs Advocate. The Left has claimed credit for proposing Pratibha Patil as a candidate for the Presidency of India. So how do they react to the serious allegation she faces? Thatâs the issue I shall raise with the General Secretary of the Communist Party of India (CPI) A B Bardhan.

Mr Bardhan when Pratibha Patil was first suggested as the UPA-Left candidate for the Presidency, you said â âI was one of those who jumped on it because it was a very good name.â Today, after the spate of newspaper stories questioning her integrity and her beliefs, do you think you have chosen the wrong person for the Presidency?

A B Bardhan: I never thought you will fall for the lies manufactured by BJPâs dirty tricks.

Karan Thapar: You call them lies, but lets explore some of them in detail. Let us begin with the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank. She was itâs chairperson and later its director. And even when she hasnât held those posts, she has been the critical person running the bank.

In 2003, when the Reserve Bank of India closed the bank, it commented â âallowing the bank to carry on banking business would be detrimental to the interest of present and future shareholders and hence itâs license is hereby cancelled.â

Should a woman who virtually presided over a failed bank be the next President of India?

A B Bardhan: Well, so many institutions fail. Thatâs quite another question. But she was the chairperson only for a certain period.

Karan Thapar: I am afraid I have to correct you.

A B Bardhan: Facts have been proved before.

Karan Thapar: You are talking about facts, let me draw your attention to Board Resolution number 23 of the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank passed on January 22, 2002. It authorised Pratibha Patil to appoint the Board of Directors and the Chief Executive. So even when she wasnât the chairperson, she was running the bank.

A B Bardhan: As the promoter and most important person there.

Karan Thapar: Regardless of what capacity, she was running the bank. When she fails, she takes responsibility for the failure.

A B Bardhan: I think the full answer has been given. Documents have shown that she was the chairperson only for a certain period. But if thereâs any responsibility that accrues to her, the Reserve Bank is there to take note of it.

Karan Thapar: In fact itâs not just the Reserve Bank, Iâm afraid Pratibha Patil stands accused in front of the Aurangabad Bench of the Bombay High Court, and she is charged with mismanagement of the bank and misappropriation of funds. Should a woman so accused in a High Court, be the next President of India?

A B Bardhan: When, how and who has challenged her? All types of litigations can come in now.

Karan Thapar: But the case has been admitted by the court. She is respondent number eight.

A B Bardhan: When was this case filed?

Karan Thapar: A couple of years ago.

A B Bardhan: Then why is she respondent number eight if she was the chairperson?

Karan Thapar: Because for the simple reason that all the other members of the board take precedence over her. But as I quoted to you on January 22 by Board Resolution number 23, she was authorised to appoint the directors and chief executive. She is the person running the bank.

A B Bardhan: I think you can go on to the next question because it so happens that so many banks and co-operatives fail. It only shows that she was not a very great executive director in all these economic affairs.

Karan Thapar: A woman who presided over a failed bank is the right choice for the President of India? Thatâs a bizarre decision.

A B Bardhan: A person who was charged with a hawala transaction, a person who was guilty of destroying a masjid (mosque), whose case was in court, wanted to be a Deputy Prime Minister.

Karan Thapar: So you have chosen Pratibha Patil in competition with L K Advani?

A B Bardhan: It is only he and his party who are levelling all these charges. Itâs a fascistic trick to throw sufficient mud at a person so that some of it might stick.

Karan Thapar: Iâm afraid itâs no mud. Letâs look more carefully at the charges. The Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank was set up as a co-operative to help empower poor women. At the very top of the list are her brothers, her sisters-in-law, nephews and nieces. A sum of Rs 2.25 crore was loaned to family members, and is now a non-performing asset. A further sum of Rs 41 lakh itâs alleged has been waived as interest to her family members. Isnât this corruption and nepotism?

A B Bardhan: Itâs neither corruption nor nepotism.

Karan Thapar: What is it then?

A B Bardhan: You see in a co-operative bank, if members of the family are there, what is there so surprising?

Karan Thapar: A co-operative bank that is meant to empower women has loans given to her brothers and her nephews.

A B Bardhan: Some of them have paid back as far as I know.

Karan Thapar: Iâm afraid you are talking about the interest waivers that have perhaps been questioned by the Congress party. I can show you a list published by the Reserve Bank of India, which lists Dilip Patil â her brother, Kishore Dilip Singh Patil â her nephew, Randhir Singh Dilip Singh Rajput â her nephew, Rajeshwari Kishore Singh Patil â her niece, Uddhav Singh Rajput â her brotherâs kin.

The total number of loans amounts to Rs 2.25 crore. And those on the list have been defaulted on and are officially recorded as non-performing assets.

A B Bardhan: Who else, but we have exposed all the non-performing assets that have been there.

Karan Thapar: But today you are giving her strange promotion to Presidency.

A B Bardhan: And let me tell you that all those people who are guilty of that are now holding high posts. And not only from the Congress or our side, but many other sides too.

Karan Thapar: You are not answering my question. You are justifying her on the grounds of lower standards of other politicians. Thatâs a strange argument.

A B Bardhan: Iâve never justified her as a very great economic expert or as a great chief executive of a bank.

Karan Thapar: What about the woman of integrity? That is what is being questioned here.

A B Bardhan: Who has questioned her integrity?

Karan Thapar: The Union. Let me quote to youâ¦

A B Bardhan: It is the BMS Union and I know that Union very well.

Karan Thapar: I am afraid it is the Union regardless of what sort of polemic you use to brand it with. The Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Karamchari Sang (union) has said in a memo to the management dated December 3, 2001, and I quote â âFounder chairperson Pratibha Patil has facilitated the loot of large sums of money in the form of unlawful loans without surety extended to her own relatives, and to people close to her.â

As a former general secretary of the All India Trade Union Congress, are you disregarding the opinion of fellow union leaders?

A B Bardhan: I know this union. It is a BMS union led by the BJP. And it is the starting point of all the slander against her.

Karan Thapar: It was the official union of a bank headed by a Congress woman and founded, as you say, by a Congress woman recognised by that woman and her management. It is the legitimate voice of the depositors in this instance.

A B Bardhan: You will have to refer it to the all India Bank Employees Association which is the major union of bank employees in this country.

Karan Thapar: Itâs a very interesting quibble that you are coming up with. I donât think it fits well in the mouth of a former general secretary of the All India Trade Union Congress. But itâs your prerogative.

Let me draw your attention to some of the other charges, not just by the union this time, but endorsed by the liquidator appointed by the Reserve Bank. Itâs alleged that Pratibha's brother Dilip Singh Patil has acquired in his house a bank phone that he used for his personal stock market transactions, and he ran up a bill of Rs 20 lakh. It's alleged that unsecured, and therefore, unlawful loans were given to her sugar factory, which later had to default. Itâs alleged that her relatives were given jobs in the bank in disregard of SC and ST reservations.

A B Bardhan: You will have to prove that all she did was for her brother, and she is responsible for what her brother did. After all she is not her brother's keeper. If her brother is guilty of any crimes, he should be prosecuted.

Karan Thapar: She is effectively the lady who ran the bank when she wasnât chairperson. The Board Resolution I quoted proved that. If her brother, nephews and nieces become beneficiaries and then defaulters, is it happening without her knowledge? That is too much of a coincidence to be possible.

A B Bardhan: I wish that in future all those who are heads of banks and other economic institutions will see that none of their kin get employed.

Karan Thapar: Let me put it a little differently. The money in the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank was the deposit of poor women. It was their hard-earned earnings for a rainy day. Who took the loans and ran away with the money? Her brothers, nephews and nieces. Can you as a Communist support that a woman of this background becomes President?

A B Bardhan: I do not support any non-performing assets and any loans taken this way.

Karan Thapar: Then why donât you reconsider her nomination?

A B Bardhan: But what has that got to do with her I want to know.

Karan Thapar: Because she was the person running the bank in effect.

A B Bardhan: If she had anything to do with this, by now there would have been so many criminal cases against her.

Karan Thapar: But there is a case filed against her in the Aurangabad Bench of the Bombay High Court. She is respondent number eight. She is accused of mismanagement of the bank and misappropriation of funds.

A B Bardhan: They served her a notice. They served her a chargesheet?

Karan Thapar: The case has been pending in court for the last two years. Let me quote to you Vijay Kumar Kakade, former president of the Employeesâ Union, he says â âPratibha Patil was responsible for this. We want to tell our countrymen that such a person is going to occupy the highest office.â

A B Bardhan: This of course is the latest statement by one BJP fellow.

Karan Thapar: This is not a BJP fellow. He is Vijay Kumar Kakade, President of the Pratibha Mahila Sahakari Bank Karamchari Sangh.

A B Bardhan: Which as I have said is a BJP unit.

Karan Thapar: So does that make such a big difference? That is the officially recognised union.

A B Bardhan: It makes a difference because they are out to malign a Presidential candidate.

Karan Thapar: But these statements were made much earlier. Let me quote to you a letter written by the President of the Bank, the Vice-President of the Bank and Secretary, all three top officials, on March 13, 2002. At least five years before her nomination, even before she became governor of Rajasthan. This is what they wrote â âThere is a threat to our lives and to the lives of our family members from you. You have already communicated this to us in our meeting with you. If something happens to us accidentally or otherwise, you will be responsible.â

Can you as a formal general secretary of the AITUC support as President a woman who threatens allegedly trade union leaders?

A B Bardhan: What are you trying to say Karan? I know of people who threaten, conspire.

Karan Thapar: But do you make them President?

A B Bardhan: And this simple woman who has not been charged of any crime, who has never been dragged to a court.

Karan Thapar: Simple if sheâs giving loans like that to her brothers, nephews and nieces? And she is facing a case in the Bombay High Court. She is in court already.

A B Bardhan: Who is there already? I might be in the court as the 20th respondent.

Karan Thapar: If tomorrow should she be elected and the High Court finds her guilty, how embarrassed will you be?

A B Bardhan: Let us see.

Karan Thapar: You are prepared to take the risk?

A B Bardhan: The people who are leveling charges now never blinked an eye when one would-be prime minister was charged and tried in court.

Karan Thapar: Mr Bardhan, these charges are levied by P B Mathur, Executive Director of the Reserve Bank of India in a report on February 25, 2003, when he closed down the bank. Heâs the one who says the bank has been mismanaged. It is his liquidator that has identified the non-performing assets and connected them to her family members.

A B Bardhan: Itâs her family members. How does it indict her?

Karan Thapar: You see it as coincidence that while she ran the bank, her family members got loans and then defaulted?

A B Bardhan: My bother commits some crime, and Iâm responsible for it? Iâm not my brotherâs keeper.

Karan Thapar: But itâs a different matter if you happen to be heading the bank at the time when the brother gets loans or if youâre effectively running the bank. Thatâs what I am pointing out.

A B Bardhan: She was the head only for sometime.

Karan Thapar: I quoted the resolution which shows that she was heading the board of directors.

A B Bardhan: Itâs not very correct.

Karan Thapar: How do you know itâs not very correct?

A B Bardhan: Facts have been put on record by Priyaranjan Dasmunsi (Parliamentary Affairs Minister) showing that she wasâ¦

Karan Thapar: Iâm afraid those are partial facts. They are questionable facts. I am quoting to you facts put on record by the RBI.

A B Bardhan: You only pick on some facts. So you are a pick and choose man.

Karan Thapar: Let me put it like this. Regardless of the facts which you or I pick on, what she stands accused of is a heinous set of imputations on her integrity, sincerity and character. Should she not at least come forward and defend herself?

A B Bardhan: Iâm quite sure she will defend herself.

Karan Thapar: She hasnât as yet.

A B Bardhan: But why should she? Just because somebody levies a charge?

Karan Thapar: Because her integrity is being impugned.

A B Bardhan: She will reply.

Karan Thapar: When?

A B Bardhan: After the nomination is over.

Karan Thapar: Why after? Why not before?

A B Bardhan: Why before?

Karan Thapar: Because the advantage of doing it afterwards is that itâs too late to withdraw. In other words you want it to become a fait accompli?

A B Bardhan: Somebody raises a charge, somebody raises a howl, somebody reduces it the most degrading episode and then you want her to withdraw for that? Let somebody else withdraw who stands as an independent candidate.

Karan Thapar: You refuse to accept the seriousness of charges or the fact that she owes a responsibility not to the country, but to herself.

A B Bardhan: I take no responsibility for whatever she might have done or her family might have done.

Karan Thapar: But you still nominate her to President?

A B Bardhan: I am only responsible for supporting her candidature.

Karan Thapar: And I am pointing out that you are supporting someone knowing that she faces hideous and serious charges.

A B Bardhan: And I am telling you that no such charges were levied when she was the minister, MLA, deputy chairperson of the Rajya Sabha or when she the governor of Rajasthan.

Karan Thapar: So what? Theyâve been provoked before the nomination, that doesnât mean they are invalid.

A B Bardhan: During all that period there was the BJP rule in the Centre and they did nothing about it.

Karan Thapar: Speaking in the Maharashtra Assembly as health minister on December 10, 1975, Mrs Pratibha Patil said we are thinking of forcible sterilisation of people with hereditary diseases. First of all, do you approve of forcible sterilisation?

A B Bardhan: I don't, I don't, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything she does or says.

Karan Thapar: Letâs explore this a little further. People with hereditary diseases include people with heart disorders, infertility, diabetes, even people with bad sight and bad hearing. Should such people be forcibly sterilised?

A B Bardhan: I don't think there should be forcible sterilisation of at any stage.

Karan Thapar: So, you completely disagree with her?

A B Bardhan: I disagreed with this whole policy of Congress at one stage.

Karan Thapar: Then how come such a woman who said this in the Assembly - it is recorded in the Assembly records - is your nominee for President?

A B Bardhan: She is not going to forcibly sterilise anybody, she is not going to follow those policies, and she is not called upon to.

Karan Thapar: But she stood for it. Sheâs never recanted. She hasnât apologised.

A B Bardhan: We are electing a President within the framework of the Indian Constitution.

Karan Thapar: But she still has views and beliefs. She has not recanted or apologised.

A B Bardhan: Iâm not called upon to support her views and beliefs.

Karan Thapar: Should she clear the air and recant and apologise for this?

A B Bardhan: Why should she?

Karan Thapar: So she stands by it and you are happy to support her?

A B Bardhan: Many wrong things, mistaken things have been said and done by the Congress and more so by the BJP.

Karan Thapar: Mr Bardhan this is not just a wrong thing. To many people Pratibha Patilâs comments sound as if she is advocating something similar to Hitlerâs 1933 âLaw for the Prevention of Heriditary Diseased Offspringâ. And that, as you know, was central to his plan for a master race. Pratibha Patilâs views sound uncannily similar. Should she not at least recant?

A B Bardhan: I admire the way you are trying to connect her with Hitler. If thereâs anything to be connected with Hitler it is that lie factory of the BJP.

Karan Thapar: So youâre prepared to forget and forgive even though she may stand by it?

A B Bardhan: I donât know whether she will stand by it.

Karan Thapar: But if you donât know whether sheâll stand by it shouldnât she publicly say she has recanted?

A B Bardhan: Anyway, itâs not the President who will lay down the policy.

Karan Thapar: May be, but this could be a President who has these views. She will be the symbol of India.

A B Bardhan: Many people in this country from the BJP, Congress and many other parties believe in godmen, godwomen, and God knows what else.

Karan Thapar: The point is you are not choosing many people such as that to be the President. You have chosen Pratibha Patil. Are you embarrassed by her views on forced sterilisation?

A B Bardhan: I donât agree with them. Thatâs all.

Karan Thapar: So shouldnât she clear the air and apologise or, at least, recant?

A B Bardhan: For everything that has been said in the past?

Karan Thapar: Why not?

A B Bardhan: There was a policy of forcible sterilisation followed even in the Emergency. Should she apologise for that?

Karan Thapar: May be but should she not clear the air before she becomes the President?

A B Bardhan: Why? Because sheâs not going to follow those policies and sheâs not called upon to lay down the policy.

Karan Thapar: Let me call upon your attention to something that she declared on June 17. She has made it clear that she believes in divine spirits. On June 17 she said that she had had a conversation with a man who died in 1969 because the man had manifested himself in the body of a woman.

You are laughing because itâs hilarious. But do you acknowledge that such a woman should be President?

A B Bardhan: Most of your leaders be the Congress or the BJP believe in godmen, spirits and astrologists.

Karan Thapar: But you are not promoting most of them to be Presidents. You are promoting her.

A B Bardhan: I am not called upon to follow all that.

Karan Thapar: Do you think Pratibha Patil has the rational, forward looking liberal temperament that a President needs?

A B Bardhan: Where have we laid down the condition that she should be a rationalist?

Karan Thapar: So you could have an orthodox, reactionary, backward looking person?

A B Bardhan: No in matters of political policy it is another thing.

Karan Thapar: What about matter of pronouncements in the public? If she starts making speeches about speaking to men who are dead 40 years ago, would you be happy if your President did that?

A B Bardhan: Iâm quite sure it will not be done.

Karan Thapar: How do you know? She did it right now.

A B Bardhan: Iâm quite sure when she becomes the President, she will not do it.

Karan Thapar: How do you know that?

A B Bardhan: As a President she will have to follow the policies laid down by the Government. We have a Parliamentary democracy here not a Presidential election.

Karan Thapar: They say Caesarâs wife should be above suspicion. Doesnât that apply to the President in India?

A B Bardhan: President of India is a Constitutional head.

Karan Thapar: So it can be suspected?

A B Bardhan: A Constitutional head is not called upon to lay policy.

Karan Thapar: The Constitutional head is the symbol of the country. Should the symbol of the country be under suspicion?

A B Bardhan: The Constitutional head is the symbol of the country whose policies will be laid down by the government.

Karan Thapar: The one thing that the Communist Party has is moral authority. No longer do you have political influence. Why are you squandering your moral authority supporting a woman who is not fit for the top turf? Why are donât you admit you made a mistake nominating her?

A B Bardhan: Our moral authority is demonstrated in the fact that we insisted that no communal person or belonging to a communal party, to the RSS and the BJP should be nominated.

Karan Thapar: So you can have a potentially corrupt person, instead you can have a woman who stands for forcible sterilisation, or have an orthodox woman who believes in spirits.

A B Bardhan: She has more than 40 years of political career.

Karan Thapar: Alright Mr Bardhan, you can have the last word. A pleasure talking to you.

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