Progress Of Indic Languages Vs English - 2

[Bharatvarsh]

Ya we also use mookudu, never heard bAndali but I found something similar in this dictionary:

http://www.sahiti.org/dict/index.jsp?engWord=frying+pan

That says baaNali.

[Bodhi]

<!--QuoteBegin-shyam+Aug 1 2008, 11:14 AM-->QUOTE(shyam @ Aug 1 2008, 11:14 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Binde          (pot to carry/hold water)
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those colourful plastic pots (which are so pleasing to sight <!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> and found only in south)

Are the clay/metal pots of same shape/size to keep water also called binde?

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->those colourful plastic pots (which are so pleasing to sight  and found only in south)

Are the clay/metal pots of same shape/size to keep water also called binde? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes the metal ones are also called binde.

[Pandyan]

What is fort in sanskrit?

Pathankot, Sialkot, Rajkot...I think all these mean fort.

Fort is kotai in tamil and kota in telugu.

Is this persian/arabic or native? All the dictionaries I checked listed it as native.

[Bodhi]

#67. Here are some samples from Ghalib.

khudA ke vAstey pardah na kAbey se uThA vA-iz
kahIM aisA na ho yaaM bhI wohi kafir-sanam nikaley

{for God's sake don't lift the curtain from the Kaaba, O Va-iz*!
Lest here too that beloved of kafirs emerge!}

(*vA-iz -> keeper of mosque/preacher)

---
hamko mAlUm hai jannat ki haqIqat lekin
dil ke KHush rakhane ko 'GHAlib' yeh KHayAl achChA hai

{Hey, we know the truth behind this 'jannat'
but to keep oneself engaged, what an idea 'GHAlib'}

---
asad us jafA pe butoM se vafA kI
mere sher shAbAsh rahmat khudA kI

{'Asad' despite the tyranny you kept your faith in your idols
bravo my lion, Lord's mercy is upon you}

'Asad' was the pen name of ghalib in his early career.

---

secularists bend backwards to proclaim these not coming from Ghalib.

[Bharatvarsh]

Its derived from Sanskrit since both Sanskrit dictionaries show it:
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->kota (p. 075) [ kota ] m. fortress, stronghold (cp. kotta).

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/romadict....table=macdonell<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->कोटः kōṭḥकोटः [कुट्-घञ्] 1 A fort.-2 A hut, shed.-3 Crookedness (moral also).-4 A beard.-Comp.-पः,-पालः The commander of the fort (Mar. किल्लेदार). See कोटिपाल.

http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologi...ct&display=utf8<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Bharatvarsh+Aug 1 2008, 07:42 PM-->QUOTE(Bharatvarsh @ Aug 1 2008, 07:42 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Ya we also use mookudu, never heard bAndali but I found something similar in this dictionary:

http://www.sahiti.org/dict/index.jsp?engWord=frying+pan

That says baaNali.
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bAndali, I heard in rayalaseema area.

[Husky]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A question for the Tamils from TN here, can you guys understand Yazhpanam (Jaffna) dialect or Batticaloa dialect or Eelam Tamizh in general without any trouble<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->With a little effort I can understand it. Now it is easier than in the beginning when I was not aware that they use terms of respect for familiar people (or at least, terms we use for respect).

There's many patterns of speech in TN. Once used to the variety, additional ones (Sri Lanka, Singaporean Tamizhs' use of the language) don't seem that different. That said, there's still words and phrases I don't understand much, but it's how I learnt new words: from new contexts.

[ramana]

Hindu paper's 61st Independence day Literary Review

Deals with the subject o translation between Indian languages and the politics of the same.

There are some very good articles like the one by A.J. Thomas

[Hauma Hamiddha]

[quote=Bharatvarsh,Jul 29 2008, 10:46 PM]
I was wondering if u knew what the name "adiyamAn neDumAn Anchi" means.
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Generally the two personal names are believed to mean "prominent" and "tall". Some say it may be an allusion to viShNu.

[Bharatvarsh]

English-Telugu Dictionary: Technical & Scientific
By Digavalli Śivarāvu

http://books.google.ca/books?hl=en&id=FkN_...=result#PPP1,M1

[Bharatvarsh]

Anyone know what kalivi means in Telugu, i heard it recently in Kahstriya Putrudu where it goes:

"kalivi ekkuvaithe kaaluvalo posinattu" at around 10:13

http://www.123onlinemovies.com/watch-kshat...gu-movie-online

I cant find it in any dictionary

[Bharatvarsh]

Telugu can be divided into 3 broad dialects, Rayalaseema, Andhra, and Telangana, while most of the vocabulary is common there seem to be some Tamil words in Rayalaseema dialect, while Telangana has many Urdu words due to Nizam rule.

While searching for info on dialects, I came across a few articles claiming some unique identity for Telangana dialect due to the Urdu words, to me that just seemed sheer nonsense, the dialect most likely existed long time before Muslim rule without any Urdu words.

If we go beyond the superficial nonsense of Urdu words, what we will see in the remaining vocabulary some word differences and also pronounciation differences, I will list a few examples mainly from Telangana and Andhra dialects since I can speak both.

1) Black = karri (Telangana)/nalupu (Andhra)
2) Bones = bokkalu (Telangana)/boyikalu or emukalu (Andhra)
3) Money = paisalu (Telangana)/ dabbulu (Andhra)
4) Run = uruku (Telangana)/ parugu/lagetthu (Andhra)
5) Girl = pOri (Telangana)/pilla (Andhra)
6) Marriage = pendli (Rayalaseema)/peLLi (Andhra)
7) Buffalo = barre (Telangana)/gEdhe (Andhra)
8) like = lekka (Telangana)/laagaa (Andhra)
9) Boy = pOrOdu (Telangana)/pillagaadu (Andhra)
10) Well = baayi (Telangana)/baavi or nuyyi (Andhra)
11) Brother = thammi (Telangana)/thammudu (Andhra)
12) Ear rings = kammalu (Telangana)/pOgulu (Andhra)

These are some examples, they are the words generally dominant in the areas, doesn't necessarily mean that people don't use the other word, also many of the words are known in all areas and most importantly all 3 dialects are mostly intelligible with each other as long as you have a good grasp of Telugu, Tenglish kinds may have trouble.

[Bharatvarsh]

Tamizh blog that has great info on different Indian political issues (including the canards about Gujarat textbooks glorifying Hitler):

http://arvindneela.blogspot.com/

[Bharatvarsh]

Any idea on who wrote this Tamizh poem and where:

"Our Eyebrows Are Lowered...
Our Eyes Closed...
Lips Parched...
Teeth Clenched...

We Walk With Our Backs Bent...
We Whom You Rule Over...

Lock Us Up...
We Whom You Rule Over...
Lock Us Up in Cages...

Flay Us With Staves...
Let The Skin On Our Backs Fester...

One Day Our Eyebrows Will Arch...!
Our Closed Eyes Open Again...!
Our Puckered Lips Will Throb...!
And Our Clenched Teeth Grind...!

Rule Over Us Until Then...!
Flaunt Your Power Over Us...! "

It was used in Kannathil Muthamittal but haven't been able to locate it or the author (is it Indira Parthasarathy?).

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->A Vedic scholar extraordinaire 

V SUNDARAM | Wed, 06 Aug, 2008 , 02:58 PM 

With this noble objective, MRJ devoted his lifetime to verbatim translate all the four Vedas into Tamil. In addition he also wrote many other books. In 1934 he wrote his Veda Chandrika or A.B.C. of Vedas. His Tamil translation of Sama Veda was published in 1935. This was followed by his Tamil translation of Yajur Veda—Mantras of Krishna Yajur Veda and Shukla Yajur Veda—in 1938. Tamil translation of Atharva Veda came out in 1940. After completing these 3 Vedas, Jambunathan devoted himself to the gigantic task of translating the mighty Rig Veda into Tamil. This task was completed by him a little before his death on 18th December 1974. The first part of his Tamil translation of the Rig Veda was published posthumously by his family in 1978. The second part of the Tamil translation of the Rig Veda was published in 1980.

http://newstodaynet.com/printer.php?id=9770 <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bharatvarsh]

Here is how Urdu lovers promote their language (through outright lies):
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Today for words like aasman, bagh, garam, sard, aadmi, aurat, hisaab, kitaab… it is impossible to imagine that these do not belong to Hindi. Arabic, Persian-speaking Muslims in India accepted thousands of Hindi words, phrases, idioms, proverbs and even Hindi grammar. Similarly, Hindus accepted thousands of Arabic Persian-speaking words which became a part of Hindi language. It is this mix of languages merged that came to be known as Urdu.

The word “Urdu” meant army in Shahjahan’s time. The Mughal army was called urdu-e-moalla or great army. Urdu, therefore, basically is mixed Hindi. Gradually, Urdu got shaped and sculpted into what was polite, velvety, sweet and tender to speak as well as hear. Urdu poetry filled the lives of people with emotions of love and pain, experience of life and existence, philosophy and diplomacy, human fallings and ambitions and so on. It reflected the culture and civilisation of its times. It was the language of the people woven into their hearts and minds echoing their sentiments and thoughts. Urdu language was used at home and in business, education, administration, conversation between Hindus and Muslims and so on.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2007/20070506/edit.htm#3<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
wtf?

Urdu poetry did not fill the "lives of people", even today the vast majority of Hindus don't know Urdu, if anything filled the lives of people, it was couplets from Tulsidas etc.

These people talk as if Urdu is some special language (sweet, civilized etc) while other languages aren't.

The less said about the alleged "secular, egalitarian" framework of Urdu the better, most Urdu poets were jihadi bigots

[Bharatvarsh]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><img src='http://newstodaynet.com/images/stories/columns/brharan/2008-images/2709-haran.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

‘Thooran’, the ‘true Periyaar’ of Thamizh       

By: B R HARAN letters@newstodaynet.com 

Saturday, 27 September, 2008 , 03:55 PM 

september 26, 2008 marks the centenary of the great Tamil Scholar Periyasami Thooran, who was fondly addressed as ‘Thooran’ by millions of Tamil lovers.

Thooran is well known in the fields of music and literature for his immense contribution for the development of both.  The moment it is said Thooran, it denotes ‘ Tamil Encyclopedia’, for he will be remembered for his magnificent work of compiling the Tamil Encyclopedia in ten volumes. And he will be equally remembered for his wonderful contribution to Carnatic Music and Children’s Literature.

Periyasamy Thooran, born in a small place called Modakurichi in Erode District to K A Palanivelappa Gounder and Paavaathal on 26 September 1908, completed his graduation BA in Mathematics in Presidency College, Madras and also did L.T. (Licentiate in Teaching). During his younger days, he was drawn towards the nationalist poet Subramania Barathiyar and he was also inspired by Mahatma Gandhi. As a great patriot, he refused to sit for his final year examination protesting against the British government’s hanging of Bagat Singh.

Periyasamy Thooran, born in a small place called Modakurichi in Erode District to K A Palanivelappa Gounder and Paavaathal on 26 September 1908, completed his graduation BA in Mathematics in Presidency College, Madras and also did L.T. (Licentiate in Teaching). During his younger days, he was drawn towards the nationalist poet Subramania Barathiyar and he was also inspired by Mahatma Gandhi. As a great patriot, he refused to sit for his final year examination protesting against the British government’s hanging of Bagat Singh.

His contributions to Tamil Literature are beyond compare and he has written and published four volumes of poetries, six volumes of short story collections, three volumes of essays, plays, books on psychology (Kuzhandai Ullam), embryology (Karuvil Valarum Kuzhandai) and genetics (Paarambariyam) and books for children. Some of the notable works include Ilanthamizha, Minnal Poo, Thanga Changili, Pillai Varam, Then Chittu and Poovin sirippu. Notable plays are Ponniyin Thayagam and Azhagu Mayakkam among many others. He has also written songs, animal stories, big stories and science book for children.

He has written folk songs and Kirtanas with ‘Swara’ notations. He had great admirers in D K Pattammal, Semmangudi Srinivasa Iyer, N C Vasantha Kokilam, T V Sankara Narayanan, Tiger Varadacharyar, Musiri subramanya Iyer and many others who have included many of his compositions in their concerts. Gananaathane (Saranga), Kaliyuga Varadhan (Brindavana Saranga), Muralidhara Gopala (Maand), Muruga Muruga (Saveri), Pazhani Nindra (Kapi), Punniyam Oru (Keeravani) and Thaye Thripurasundhari (Shuddha Saveri) are some of his great compositions.
 
He has also translated Jack London’s ‘Call of the Wild’ (Kanagathin Kural), Naomi Mitchinson’s ‘Judy and Lakshmi’ (Kadal Kadantha Natpu) apart from a few others. Thooran has edited ‘Bharathi Tamizh’ and ‘Thakurin Aimperum Katturaigal’ and he has also published a few poetries and dance dramas, which were originally written in palm leaves. His works on Barathi, a ten-book masterpiece, analysing Barathi’s versatile personality in different ways was undoubtedly a magnificient contribution to Tamil Literature.
 
Thooran worked tirelessly between 1948 and 1978 as Chief Editor and brought out successfully the ten-volume compilation of Tamil Encyclopedia. Subsequently, he has also brought out the first ever Children’s Encyclopedia, another ten-volume compilation.
 
When he worked as a teacher in T S Avinashalingam Chettiar’s schools, he accepted only Rs 15/- as monthly salary refusing Chettiar’s offer of Rs.30/-. He was awarded the ‘Padma Bhushan’ by President of India in 1968, ‘Isai Perarignar’ by Tamil Isai Sangam in 1972, ‘Kalaimamani’ by Tamilnadu Iyal Isai Nataka Manram in 1970 and Annamalai Chettiar Award by MAC Charities in 1978.  Bharathiya Vidya Bhavan and Sahitya Akademi have together released a book titled ‘Thondil Kanindha Thooran’ (Thooran ripened in service) on the life of Periyasami Thooran in connection with his birth centenary.
 
The Dravidian government of Tamilnadu, which swears by Tamil and claims that it works for the welfare of Tamils and development of Tamilnadu, has just not remembered this great soul, which has breathed Tamil throughout life. It is very unfortunate that the Dravidian government of Tamilnadu has simply ignored this great Tamil Scholar, who has contributed his might and sacrificed his life for the development of Tamil.
 
E V Ramasamy, another product of Erode district, who called Tamil as a ‘barbarous’ language and Tamils as barbarians and who worked for the separation of Tamilnadu from the national mainstream, has been adored as ‘Periyaar’ and his birth anniversaries are celebrated every year with pomp and gaiety spending the taxpayers’ money. Whereas Thooran, also hailing from the same Erode district, who served throughout his life for Tamil and brought glory to the language, has been totally forgotten.

http://newstodaynet.com/col.php?section=...9&id=10989<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[Bodhi]

na tathA kaTu-ghUtkR^itAd vyathA me
hr^idi jIrNOpavaneShu ghUkalogAt
parishIlita pArasIka vAgbhyo
yavanAnAn bhavane yathA shukebhyaH (8.13)

<span style='color:red'>(O my King), I get more perturbed by hearing the Persian language uttered by the pet-parrots from the houses of musalmans in my country, than I get troubled by hearing ill-ominous noises emitted by owls that now live in our abandoned gardens!</span>

...from the appeal of a citizen of Tamil country to the prince of karnATaka's vijayanagara, an event chroniclized by his spouse ga~NgAdevI, a Telugu lady in her madhurAvijaya, the only manuscript of which was discovered from a malayAlam library by Pandit N Ramasvami Sastriar in 1905, and I quote this from a Hindi translation of the same by Dr. Sharada Mishra, Professor in Sankrit Dept. of Patna University, thanks for finding which goes to BhV.

More on this chapter of madhurAvijaya

[Bodhi]

Indian Readership Survey (IRS) 2008 Round 2 (R2) results
graphs

- Readeship sharply declining for all Top 10 English Dailies in India.
- TOI is #1 English Daily, readers down by 3 Lakh from last year
- Followed by HT, Hindu, Telegraph, Deccan Chronicle, ET, IE, Mumbai Mirror, Mid Day, NDA - In that order. Readership of all of the English papers declines. HT remained same as last year, none grew.
- Good news for Hindi, Telugu and Gujarati papers.
- Kannada, Assamia, Bangla & Marathi readership however declined too.
- Overall Dainik Jagran continues to be the most read News Paper in the world for 11th consecutive year, readership further grew this year.

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Indian Readership Survey (IRS) 2008 Round 2 (R2), which was announced yesterday doesn’t indicate a positive indication for the English dailies.

Surprisingly, none of the dailies amongst top 10 have seen an increase in readership. Although, quite a few publications have managed to retain their readers as compared to the previous round of IRS, but majority of them have seen a decline in readership.

http://www.afaqs.com/perl/media/index.html?sid=22541<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Among Hindi dailies, as usual, the charts are dominated by Dainik Jagran and Dainik Bhaskar. Both publications have shown an increase in comparison to their readership numbers of last year. Jagran has grown to 557.4 lakh and last year this number was at 536.1 lakh readers. Bhaskar has grown from 305.8 lakh readers to 338.3 lakh total readers. The increase trend has continued for the next three players too. Amar Ujala has increased from 282.2 lakh to 293.8 lakh; Hindustan has grown from 235.3 lakh to 266.3 lakh, and Rajasthan Patrika has grown from 131.9 lakh to 140 lakh.

Asomiya Pratidin and Dainik Agradoot are the leading Assamese publications. Both have shown a drop in readership and are currently at 60.2 lakh and 32.8 lakh from 65.9 lakh readers and 39.8 lakh readers, respectively. Bengali publications Ananda Bazar Patrika (down from 157.5 lakh to 153.9 lakh) and Bartaman (down from 87.6 lakh to 84 lakh) are the domain leaders.

Gujarati dailies readership has seen growth from the last year. <b>Gujarat Samachar and Sandesh are the top two players, and both have grown</b>. Gujarat Samachar has grown from 84.7 lakh readers to 87.4 lakh readers, while Sandesh has grown from 63.6 lakh readers to 65.3 lakh readers.

Vijay Karnataka continues its lead among Kannada publications, but has dropped from the 99.4 lakh readers last year to 92.2 lakh in R2. Prajavani follows and has seen a decline from 66.4 lakh to 58.3 lakh readers. Malayala Manorama and Mathrubhumi lead among Malayalam publications. Though they have both declined – Malayala Manorama is now at 121.8 lakh from 129.1 lakh readers, and Mathrubhumi is at 97.1 lakh from 105 lakh readers.

Lokmat is the largest read Marathi daily, but it too has dropped from 206.6 lakh readers to 199.3 lakh readers. Daily Sakal follows, and has dropped from 125.6 lakh to 116.3 lakh.

Daily Thanthi has dropped from 208.8 lakh readers to 205.6 lakh readers. On the other hand, Dinakaran has increased from 160.8 lakh readers to 168.3 lakh readers. These are the top two Tamil players.

The top two Telugu players are Eenadu and Andhra Jyothi. Both have shown increase in their total readership and are at 144.1 lakh and 68.1 lakh from 142.2 lakh and 56.8 lakh, respectively.

The Magazine Trends
Among English magazines, India Today leads with a total readership figure of 68.5 lakh in IRS 2008 R2. However, last year, this figure was at 71.3 lakh. The second highest read in this segment is Readers Digest, which has shown a drop in its total readership from 49.3 lakh in IRS 2007 R2 to 40 lakh. General Knowledge Today at No. 3 has dropped from 43.7 lakh readers last year to 35.2 lakh readers this year. Competition Success Review has dipped from 32.9 lakh readers to 26.8 lakh this year. Stardust takes the fifth place, and has dropped from 26.6 lakh readers to 19.2 lakh.

Among Hindi publications, Saras Salil leads with a total readership figure of 84.6 lakh. Last year, this number stood at 106.4 lakh. India Today Hindi, too, has dropped from a total readership figure of 69.7 lakh to 58.1 lakh. Meri Saheli has declined from 62.4 lakh to 54.5 lakh. Cricket Samrat, which is at No. 4, too, has declined from 51 lakh to 47.9 lakh. The only exception here is Pratiyogita Darpan, which has seen an increase from 41.2 lakh to 43.6 lakh.

Looking at some of the other language readership top-line numbers, Sananda and Anandalok are the top two players among Bengali publications. Both have dropped in readership and are currently at 19.5 lakh from 21.9 lakh and 17 lakh from 18.5 lakh readers, respectively.

Chitralekha and Griha Shobha, leaders in Gujarati magazines, too, have dropped and are at 4.5 lakh (a drop from 6.4 lakh in the last year) and 3.4 lakh (a drop from 4.3 lakh in the last year), respectively. Among Marathi magazines, Griha Shobha is the most read with a readership of 14.8 lakh (a drop from 18 lakh in the last year), while Saptahik Sakal follows with 7 lakh readers. This is a drop from the 9.7 lakh readers it had last year.

http://spoonfeedin.blogspot.com/2008/11/in...008-review.html<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->