Religion, Caste And Tribe Based Reservation - 3

06-04-2006, 12:41 AM

I dont know about now but around 1990 there was a palpable anti-yadav feeling amongst non-yadavs in UP - people used to hate the goon of jaswantnagar. That has never translated into any political gains for others though .

06-04-2006, 01:10 AM

In and around Agra, in 1977-78 we had seen lot of Yadav and Jatav riots.
In UP, society is very conservative on caste line. Itâs more among lower sub caste.
Dhobi caste will never eat with Mochi caste. Bagehala will not marry with Dhobi or Jatavs.
Gavalas are superior than Yadavs.

Never seen or heard any riots in decades between lower and forward caste in UP.

Approach towards social engineering using reservation doesn't make sense. It will increase rift.

In UP Hindus unite pretty fast against Muslims in any riots. No efforts needed its always spontaneous.

06-04-2006, 09:26 AM

Listen - Anti-Reservation ring tone 

You can download from this link
Enjoy it <!--emo& Big Grin

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06-04-2006, 10:27 AM

No stopping Arjun Singh as he further tightens quota screws QUOTENot just IITs, IIMs, AIIMS, over 100 more institutes, public and private, in 27% OBC quota net: from Puneâs Symbiosis to TIFR, Manipal to BITS. Arjun Singhâs latest Bill proposal also asks UGC to fix fees as per quotas, even threatens punitive action

According to the note, obtained by The Sunday Express, the key provisions of the proposed Bill, titled Central Educational Institutions (Reservation of Seats and Regulation of Admission and Fee) Bill, 2006, are:

â¢ Quotas specified: 15 for SCs; 7.5 for STs and 27 for OBCs

â¢ New names in this quota net: Institutions, aided and unaided by the Government, and deemed to be universities will now be âCentral educational institutionsâ to which the above percentages will apply.

â¢ UGC decides: The University Grants Commission will have the power to regulate admissions and fees in these institutions.

â¢ Two fee packages: There will be a âdifferential fee structureâ for SC/ST/OBC students to make âreservation a meaningful reality.â The Centre can specify what the difference in fees should be.

â¢ Mandatory increase in seats: The Government can, âby order, direct any Central Educational Institution to increase the number of seats in each branch or faculty,â to protect the number of seats available for general students. In other words, no IIT or IIM can refuse to increase seats.

â¢ Say in selection: Unaided institutions deemed to be universities shall make admissions in âa fair and transparent manner,â on the basis of qualifying examinations prescribed by UGC.

â¢ Monitoring: The Centre has power to check for compliance with the provisions by the institutions.

â¢ Punitive action: In case of violation, the Centre can withhold grants, withdraw deemed university status, take âany other appropriate action under relevant acts.â

Bill drags these too into the quota raj: IIFT, NSD, BIT... 

Among the âdeemed universitiesâ that are proposed to be brought under the new Bill: 

â¢ Indian School of Mines (Dhanbad)
â¢ Manipal Academy of Higher Education (Manipal)
â¢ National Institute of Mental Health and Sciences (Bangalore)
â¢ Tata Institute of Social Sciences (Mumbai)
â¢ Symbiosis International Education centre (Pune)
â¢ Indian Institute of Foreign Trade (Delhi)
â¢ Tata Institute for Fundamental Research (Mumbai)
â¢ Narsee Monjee Institute of Management Studies (Mumbai)
â¢ BITS (Pilani)
â¢ National School of Drama (Delhi)
â¢ BIT-Mesra (Ranchi)
â¢ Central Institute for English and Foreign Languages (Hyderabad)

What the world thinks
From Arjun trying to embarrass his boss to Indiaâs weight of history

Fundamental failure of Indian education is not discrimination in tertiary institutions; rather, it is the inability of primary and secondary schools to produce enough qualified students. Determination to extend reservations can be blamed on politics. Some close to the prime minister scent an effort by Arjun Singh to embarrass his boss, whose job he is widely reckoned to think should be his.
â¢ The Economist 

Draconian quotas have cast doubt on the ability of the countryâs leading universities to compete with the best in the world.
â¢ Daily Telegraph, London 

Biggest obstacle to modernisation of Indiaâs society is the persistence of its demeaning caste system. So, on the face of it, the new policy is a step in the right direction. But appearances can be misleading. In practice, the move would do very little to expand opportunities for Indiaâs historically disadvantaged groups. But it would deal a serious blow to the quality of Indiaâs best universities...There are certainly reasons for believing that Arjun Singh, Indiaâs minister for education, who unveiled the measure, is using it to bolster his ambitions to replace Mr Singh
â¢ Financial Times 

The clash pits winners in Indiaâs ongoing economic boom against those who have been left behind.
â¢ USA Today 

Itâs undeniable that more people must benefit from Indiaâs economic growth. The danger lies in using caste to make growth more inclusive. A worse folly is for politicians to pretend that caste-based quotas would encourage diversity. Caste-based quotas are the antithesis of affirmative action. India has to obliterate caste-based identities from the national consciousness.
â¢ International Herald Tribune 

This is called screw India.

06-04-2006, 10:30 AM

Last OBC count in 1951QUOTENEW DELHI::With the Supreme Court asking the Centre the basis of fixing 27 per cent reservation for the OBCs in its proposed amendment bill, the need to put up a credible demographic data of the OBCs population may force the government to dig out hitherto unpublished 1951 census data on the backward castes.

Since Independence, the only Census that collected caste-based data was conducted under Commissioner Gopalaswami in 1951. It collected data of not just SC/ST population but also that of the other castes, except for the obviously non-backward castes such as Brahmin, Rajput and Kayasth. 

Though the SC/ST data was published, the government decided to withhold the OBC data. However, this OBC data was made available to the first Backward Caste Commission set up in 1954 under a constitutional mandate and also to the Mandal Commission in â90s.

06-04-2006, 07:45 PM

Congress coy on credit over quotaQUOTEThe move triggered by certain statements of HRD Minister Arjun Singh in the midst of the recent assembly polls found the party divided while the likes of the Dravidian parties were quick to make political capital ahead of the Tamil Nadu poll battle.

RJD President Lalu Prasad also used the opportunity to extend his influence to the forward castes by asking for reservation even to the economically backward in the upper castes.

The Congress appears to be caught in a serious dilemma on taking credit for the move amid apprehensions that it would lead to a backlash from people belonging to upper castes.

There was also the belief that the backward castes were not the political constituency of the party and were only that of Lalu Prasad, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Nitish Kumar and others in the erstwhile Janata Parivar.


Hahha!!!!!!!! too late

06-04-2006, 09:16 PM

one question i have: If its true that many of the seats to major universities - seats reserved for OBC's - are unfilled, are they subsequently filled in by other castes? (like if out of 200 med school seats 50 are for OBC, but only 30 are filled, can the other 20 go to other castes or do they remain empty?)

06-04-2006, 10:06 PM

They remain empty, get wasted. They are like perishable item.

06-04-2006, 10:53 PM

QUOTEhttp://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/banerjee060206.htm
Dark Clouds Descend on India 
By Ron Banerjee

Medical students and practitioners have launched massive strikes and protests in India lately. For a notion of what the fuss is about, consider the following stories.

In 2005, the NY Times reported that a patient undergoing routine cataract surgery in a hospital within the workers paradise of Communist ruled West Bengal, India, died when ants ate her eyeballs following the procedure. This ghastly incident is an example of shoddy medical treatment offered in leftist and Communist ruled states in India.

Amazingly, India is routinely feted as having the best medical professionals and facilities in the world. Time magazine devoted many pages recently to medical tourism in Asia, and 60 Minutes last year profiled the tens of thousands of American and British residents who fly annually to India and receive the most complex treatment for bargain prices.

This dichotomy is present in every sphere in India. The private sector, a few select educational institutions like the elite IITs and states like Gujarat, which emphasize merit over quotas, prosper and provide the worlds highest caliber doctors, engineers, and professionals of all stripes. By contrast, populist leftist leaders like the former Laloo Yadav who court Muslims and lower castes, have rendered infrastructure and development in basket cases like Bihar state equivalent to sub Saharan Africa.

Indias economy provides ample merit based advancement opportunity for all minorities.

The wealthiest community in India is the Zoroastrian minority, which fled Islamic oppression in Iran for sanctuary in India. Jains also enjoy higher than average incomes and enormous success. All of these groups prospered without quotas or special privileges.

The dark cloud which mars India has always been favoritism which populist governments use to win votes from minorities, like Muslims, and supposedly underprivileged castes. The caste system is a myth: employment discrimination based on caste has not existed for decades. Successive leftist regimes, in the all-consuming goal of courting votes, falsely used the bogey of caste discrimination to impose ridiculous quotas for backward castes in public universities and government employment. Currently, quotas range from 22.5% in federal institutions to as high as 60% in states such as Tamil Nadu.

These discriminatory and unsuccessful quotas succeeded in driving away the best Indian professionals to more welcoming shores, especially America. Indias brain drain was reversed in the last decade for a few reasons: government loosened investment laws, and the resulting flood of private sector investment (quota free and merit based) created an economic boom. The pro-business pragmatic BJP government which ruled in the late 1990s stoked economic growth and contained self-destructive populism.

The current leftist federal government, keen on currying minority votes, will reverse this progress by increasing quotas by another 27% in universities and public firms. This additional reservation will increase the quota in federal government institutions to 50% and will result in obscene levels in some states such as Tamil Nadu, where up to 87% of seats will be reserved for the "so called" lower castes. These ruinous quotas may be extended to private sector firms later.

This constitutes the beginning slide which will lead to the destruction of Indias economic miracle, and wiping out billions of dollars of foreign investment in India. {And, who is clamining that is not exactly what commies want in the name of "Social Justice?"}

This issue is not just a domestic Indian affair: as the intellectual economies of the West and India have become entwined, we have a vested interest in ensuring that the excellence in products and services that our economies need continues to be developed. Every major American firm, especially in technology, today is critically dependent on Indian talent to provide cutting edge design and innovation, not just low-end services.

Destruction of the Indian jewel will drag down the entire global economy along with India, and considerably weaken American competitiveness and innovation, especially compared to China. The Congress-led Indian government, which relies on a coalition with Communist parties for support, will go down in history as the most destructive regime to ever rule India.

06-05-2006, 02:25 AM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Jun 4 2006, 10:06 PM)They remain empty, get wasted. They are like perishable item.
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Well thats the one thing that can't be rationaled on any level. Even a 50% OBC reservation is easily rationaled....its for votes!!

But if seats for a particular university are not filled by a deadliine, there should be a second deadline to fill in the empty seats based on merit. Pure common sense!! This could be one area where a compromise can be reached with the government.

06-05-2006, 09:41 AM

QUOTEBut if seats for a particular university are not filled by a deadliine, there should be a second deadline to fill in the empty seats based on merit. Pure common sense!! This could be one area where a compromise can be reached with the government.
Actually, initially that was the process but later SC/ST etc blamed upper caste that they are intentionally not filling these seats. So Govt came up with law that these seats should be filled only by reserved category.
In my class 78% was general category cutoff and for reserved category even 33% was able to get admission and one seat remains empty. They can't admit failed candidate.

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06-05-2006, 10:32 AM

QUOTEMayawati tells OBCs to beware vote politics 
Pioneer News Service | Lucknow
Predicts fall of UPA Govt before Monsoon Session ---- Terming the move to provide reservation to OBCs in higher educational institutions as "vote politics", BSP supremo Mayawati appealed to the OBCs to beware the plans of Congress and BJP on the issue.

Addressing a Press conference here on Sunday, Mayawati said that her partymen were not on the streets in support of reservation as her party had always advocated social equality and did not want a confrontation between different communities.

"If the Government initiates steps to reserve seats for economically-weaker sections of upper classes, the BSP will support the move," she said.

Charging the UPA Government with having failed to live up to the expectations of people, Mayawati said the Congress in all likelihood would exploit the situation caused by the office-of-profit issue and also the proposed reservation for OBCs and go in for a mid-term poll. The party would ''sacrifice'' the Government over the OoP issue, rather than allow people to reject it for its failure, she charged.

Mayawati told mediapersons that the Election Commission was ready to disqualify Parliament members holding offices of profit before the Monsoon Session. As a majority of these were Left MPs, this would destabilise the Government. "The Government will be reduced to a minority as several Left MPs would be disqualified," she explained.

She also questioned the Congress for delaying the Bill's passage saying, 'There is something fishy," because if the party wanted, it could have called a special session of Parliament.

Even if the UPA Government fell at the Centre, the BSP supremo had no apprehension of it impacting the poll schedule of UP Assembly. "There is no need to panic on the date of UP Assembly polls as the Election Commission has already informed the State Government about its decision to hold the elections along with Punjab and Uttaranchal,'' she claimed.Â

06-05-2006, 07:56 PM

I wonder if this losers of UPA (including CPM) could not come up with a plan.

This fraud Marxists, chamchas such as ARJOON SINGH are all over this reservation thing. We see their fraud agents such as Vindo Mehta, Prafool Badwai are bashing upper castes and dividing India as much as possible.

How COME these FRAUDs do not demand an end to capitation fees in professional colleges?

Why not Open all the private colleges to competition? These schools can raise a lot of money thru fees, sponsorships, Govt grants and other ways.

Why DONATIONS? Is it because 60% of DONATION COLLEGES are OWNED by CONgress politicians... All this DONATION money goes into their pockets.

If they ban capitation fees and open seats for all, the colleges can more than survive thru fees. For economically weak BC/SC/ST students, Govt. will give vouchers or very low interest loans to cover their fees. A doctor can borrow 6 lakhs during college and can pay it later.

I want FRAUDS such as PRAFOOL BIDWAI, ARJOON SINGH, SITARAM YECHURY comment on this.

06-05-2006, 08:13 PM

Now days, admission in any private education, from Kindergarten to post graduate is very expensive and beyond limits for even middle class.
we have to find out how many schools are owned by Arjun Singh family.

Forget about reduction in fee, they will increase capitation fees for General category and special higher rates will be introduced for Brahmin caste.

06-05-2006, 08:15 PM

Indian Americans protest against reservation policyQUOTEThe anti-quota protests in India found an echo in the United States with over 500 Indian American professionals and students from the San Francisco Bay Area holding a demonstration against what they dubbed as the disturbing trend of using reservation for politics.

Under the banner of Bay Area Indians for Equality, Indian Americans from the region including Berkeley, Santa Clara, Sunnyvale, Mountain View, Palo Alto, Milpitas and San Jose organised a protest on Sunday at Fair Oaks Park in Sunnyvale, California.

The rally included a signature campaign on a petition addressed to the President of India questioning the proposed policy of reservation for OBCs in Central institutes.

A street-skit performance poked fun at the politics and policies of reservation while sending a serious message on the long-term impact of reservations on society.

06-05-2006, 09:17 PM

Surprise Surprise! the ones who go on the most about caste discrimination are themselves upper castes

UPPER CASTES DOMINATE THE MEDIA

http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/05quota...?q=tp&file=.htm

Upper castes dominate media: Survey

June 05, 2006 16:39 IST

The news about the national media is hardly flattering if the findings of a survey are to be believed.

The national media, which front-paged the reservation controversy in all its facets, is now itself being sucked into that quagmire with the first-of-its-kind survey revealing that top echelons of media establishments are dominated by ''Hindu upper caste men.''

Jointly conducted by Yogendra Yadav, senior fellow at the Centre for the Study of Developing Societies, Anil Chamaria, a freelance journalist, and Jitendra Kumar from the Media Study Group, the controversial survey says India's 'national media' lacks social diversity and does not reflect the country's social profile.

''Hindu upper caste men dominate the media. They are about eight per cent of India's population but among the key decision-makers of the national media, their share is as high as 71 per cent,'' it points out.

The survey, which tracked the social profile of 315 senior journalists in 37 English and Hindi dailies and TV channels, also revealed gender bias in the media establishments. It was carried out by volunteers of Media Study Group between May 30 and June 3.

''Only 17 per cent of the key decision-makers are women though their representation is somewhat better (32 per cent) in the English electronic media,'' it says.

Women account for 16 per cent of top editorial posts in the English print media and 14 per cent and 11 per cent in the Hindi print media and electronic media, respectively.

The survey also takes a swipe at media's caste profile, describing it as 'unrepresentative'.

''Twice born Hindus ('dwijas' comprising Brahmins, Kayasthas, Rajputs, Vaishyas and Khatris) account for about 16 per cent of India's population, but they are about 86 per cent among the key media decision-makers. Brahmins (including Bhumihars and Tyagis) alone constitute 49 per cent of the key media personnel,'' he survey adds.

If 'non-dwija' forward castes like Marathas, Patels, Jats and Reddys are also added to this list, the total share of the upper castes would be pegged at a staggering 88 per cent.

Further, Dalits and Adivasis, points out the survey, are conspicuous by their absence among the decision-makers. Not even one of the 315 key decision-makers belongs to the Scheduled Castes or Scheduled Tribes.

''The proportion of the OBCs is abysmally low among the key decision-makers in the national media They are only four per cent compared to their population of around 43 per cent in the country,'' it added.

The representation of Muslims is also grossly under-represented in the national media, the survey notes. Muslims, who comprise 13.4 per cent of the country's population, have a share of only four per cent in top media posts.

Muslims, however, fare better in the Hindi electronic media, accounting for around six per cent of major decision-makers. In the national capital itself, there were no Muslims at the seniormost levels.

The facts are more palatable with regard to the Christians, who are proportionately represented in the media, mainly in the English media. Their share is about four per cent compared to their population of 2.3 per cent.

The survey also makes a reference to ''doubly disatvantaged'' social groups such as women belonging to OBCs or backward caste Muslims and Christians.

''Social groups that suffer double disadvantage' are nearly absent among the key decsion-makers. There are no women among the few OBC decision makers and negligible backwards among the Muslims and Christians,'' the survey notes.

The findings were based on a survey of designation, age, caste, religion, mother tongue, gender and domicile of a maximum of 10 top decision-makers from 37 media establishments.

06-05-2006, 10:15 PM

QUOTEUPPER CASTES DOMINATE THE MEDIA
We never had OBC PM. Why Congress always had upper caste President?
They should make these changes first and set a good example.
BJP can project OBC Modi as PM.

India should start enforcing Caste in front of name.
Tayli Rahul Gandhi
Melacha Sonia Gandhi
Khatri Priyanka Vadra
Brahmin Atal Bihari Vajpayee
Backward Lalu Yadav
OBC Modi
It will bring more clarity and social justice.

**acharya** · 06-06-2006, 06:42 AM

Poojary hits out at anti-quota agitators

Special Correspondent

The protest may lead to social unrest in the country, says former KPCC chief

MANGALORE: Rajya Sabha member and former president of Karnataka Pradesh Congress Committee (KPCC) B. Janardhana Poojary has criticised the anti-reservation agitation in the country saying it has been "engineered" by upper castes elitists.

Addressing a press conference here on Monday, Mr. Poojary said the agitation could become a major reason for social unrest in the country, as the anti-quota proponents had not understood the implications of such a movement.

He said 54 per cent of the population belonged to the backward classes, 22 per cent to Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes and 13 per cent were minorities. So, the reservation for this 89 per cent of the population was only 50 per cent whereas the rest was for the 11 per cent population in the general category, which was not "social justice."

He said the first Prime Minister of the country Jawaharlal Nehru thought about setting up elite institutions to give the country's youth a chance to come up in life based on their talent. But only 11 per cent of the population, mainly belonging to the upper castes, were dominating in the elite institutions. And they did not contribute to the progress of the country in any way as many of them preferred to go abroad while the talented children of the poor suffered because of lack of opportunities.

Mr. Poojary alleged that the anti-reservation agitation was being sponsored by corporates that feared that the reservation policy might be extended to the private sector.

06-07-2006, 12:04 AM

I don't from where he plucked this 52%. Congressi really talk from their behind.

06-07-2006, 02:52 AM

Mudy: This is Janardhan-Loan-Mela-Poojary we are talking about. If he could hoodwink banks and financial institutions back in 70s/80s over loan melas, doing it with clueless media is a walk in park.

QUOTEHe said the first Prime Minister of the country Jawaharlal Nehru thought about setting up elite institutions to give the country's youth a chance to come up in life based on their talent.
Here's Nehru: Someone ought to show it to Mr Poojary and entire Nehru-Gandhi clan:
<img src='http://www.youth4equality.org/images/nehru.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

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