06-09-2007, 02:36 AM
Thank you for the update- that is indeed sad.
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Miscellaneous Topics discussion
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06-12-2007, 07:56 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-k.ram+Jun 5 2007, 08:12 AM-->QUOTE(k.ram @ Jun 5 2007, 08:12 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Honsol+Jun 5 2007, 05:24 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Honsol @ Jun 5 2007, 05:24 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is the explication for existence of self hating indians?
[right][snapback]69790[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> short sweet answer: phenomenon exhibited by species going through identity transformation, this manifestation has very many shades depending on which stage of transformation the specimen finds itself in. This manifestation is directly proportional (in intesity) to the 'affirmations" this specimen receives from the vested interests. Experts will chime in.... [right][snapback]69791[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> k.ram: any way to quantify the number of these self-loathing Indians. A huge percentage of Indians I've met (could say over 95% - the number is my guess) are pretty darn confident of who they are and where they fit in global village. And these kind don't wear their religion or nationalism up their sleeve. The problem is that a very small miniscule percentage of self-loathing, self-flagellating Indians/Hindus have hijacked the media and the mike and are heard and seen around and they spread a very wrong image about who/what we are.
06-13-2007, 12:13 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
k.ram: any way to quantify the number of these self-loathing Indians. A huge percentage of Indians I've met (could say over 95% - the number is my guess) are pretty darn confident of who they are and where they fit in global village. And these kind don't wear their religion or nationalism up their sleeve. The problem is that a very small miniscule percentage of self-loathing, self-flagellating Indians/Hindus have hijacked the media and the mike and are heard and seen around and they spread a very wrong image about who/what we are. [right][snapback]70028[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Especialy indians from US are the most self confident. Is a diference betwin personal shame and shame for you own country .We can find many chinese whit low self esteem but whit very good opinion about their country. Can be find on internet ,indians who try to proove that in fact they are europeans or Vedas are writen in europe.I meet such cases.Thats why i find this puzzeling. 
06-13-2007, 01:02 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Honsol+Jun 12 2007, 06:43 AM-->QUOTE(Honsol @ Jun 12 2007, 06:43 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Viren @ Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
k.ram: any way to quantify the number of these self-loathing Indians. A huge percentage of Indians I've met (could say over 95% - the number is my guess) are pretty darn confident of who they are and where they fit in global village. And these kind don't wear their religion or nationalism up their sleeve. The problem is that a very small miniscule percentage of self-loathing, self-flagellating Indians/Hindus have hijacked the media and the mike and are heard and seen around and they spread a very wrong image about who/what we are. [right][snapback]70028[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Especialy indians from US are the most self confident. Is a diference betwin personal shame and shame for you own country .We can find many chinese whit low self esteem but whit very good opinion about their country. Can be find on internet ,indians who try to proove that in fact they are europeans or Vedas are writen in europe.I meet such cases.Thats why i find this puzzeling. [right][snapback]70040[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This behavior is a direct result of education and media myth created in the last 40 years to show that India/Hindu Culture is falling. Read the thread Politics of history two threads completely to understand the full extent of the plan. THis is nothing but a social engineering on a gigantic scale deployed for the last 40 years. All the information about this well coordinated plan on media, academic, history, social, cultural field is present in this forum website. Please explore and connect the dots. For any questions please ask them and we can also create a dedicated thread for this. This large enterprise needs money and funding. If the funding is traced we find that a large number of programs are controlled by western universities, western think tanks educating including Indians about this phony image of India and society. Indian govt also funds the eminent Historians and and also Indian Univ are also under the control of the leftist and communist/marxist. SO we have Indian taxpayers supporting a govt for the last 60 years which has been creating a myth of India/Indians and Hindu civilization. This is unique in the world
06-13-2007, 01:18 AM
Read the debate between 'Art for Art's sake' and the 'Theory of purposive art'. That is the crux of the problem.
06-13-2007, 02:01 PM
Acording whit vedic teachings
God Is Both Personal (Bhagavan) and Impersonal (Brahman) http://www.stephen-knapp.com/god_is_both_%...l_(Brahman).htm www.stephen-knapp.com/god_is_both_%20personal_(Bhagavan)_and_impersonal_(Brahman).htm
06-13-2007, 05:03 PM
<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Jun 12 2007, 07:56 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->
k.ram: any way to quantify the number of these self-loathing Indians. A huge percentage of Indians I've met (could say over 95% - the number is my guess) are pretty darn confident of who they are and where they fit in global village. And these kind don't wear their religion or nationalism up their sleeve. The problem is that a very small miniscule percentage of self-loathing, self-flagellating Indians/Hindus have hijacked the media and the mike and are heard and seen around and they spread a very wrong image about who/what we are. [right][snapback]70028[/snapback][/right] <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Frankly, I do not know how to estimate such numbers Viren. Perhaps one could guesstimate based on the environment (Commie favorite word - social context) they are in. Let me ask you one thing, sheerly out of curiosity, how many of these confident numbers are self-aware (of their identity - granted they do not have to wear anything up their sleeve)? Also, given a choice of whiteness (power and privelege) and their awareness of Indian/Hinduness, which one will they opt for? I guess what I am looking for is how consciously was their choice made... Hindu narrative's consequence/result could very well assist some fence sitters and the ones who went into the twilight zone, IMVHO.
06-16-2007, 12:41 PM
Husky, can you plz upload all the songs you have in page.6 of this thread again, "Ananda Natanaprakasam" by Bombay Jaishree was damn good, if you have the full albumn of "Panchabhutams" plz upload it to them again.
<b>Remaining 4 Panchabhutams (songs in Samskritam) - 2 per zip:</b>
http://www.bestsharing.com/files/cnhKu7Q...4.zip.html http://www.bestsharing.com/files/eHRYjPd...5.zip.html Wasn't entirely sure anyone liked these until now. I love all 5 <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> IMO they are magnificent. She sings very beautifully. The ambient music is simple, unintrusive and not at all inappropriate, I thought. These songs may take multiple listens to love, though (just like Ananda Natanaprakasam may have taken). But it's really worth it!Although Jambhupathe was uploaded earlier it is included above in case you or anyone else didn't have a chance to download it yet. May they bring happiness. I can't stop thinking of Shankara when hearing them myself... <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> As for the Samskritam, Thamizh and Telugu shlokas from earlier - I will post them here in a week's time or so. Little time at present. ADDED: In general: vote with your wallet to support artists and encourage more good music. If you ever have the opportunity, consider the chance to buy good music CDs for family or friends. (<- Bit of a disclaimer <!--emo&  --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> )
06-17-2007, 01:10 AM
What is the title of album? I want to buy.
I start my day listening MS and Bombay sisters.
Mudy, you rock.
<b>The Bombay Jayashri album is called</b> - 'Panchabhutams - Compositions on the 5 Elements' <b>And these are the MSS albums:</b> - 'Balaji Pancharatnamala - Vol. 1' (Lakshmi Ashtothram, Durga Pancharatnam and 9 more shlokas) - 'Balaji Pancharatnamala - Vol. 2' (Carnatic songs mostly by Sri Annamcharya: Thazh Sadaiyum ~ Entamatramu, Natanalabharamayaku, Jo Achyuthananda Jo Jo Mukunda, Kurai Onrum Illai and 7 more. Includes Bhavayami Gopalabalam.) - 'Bharathi Songs' (Karpaga Vinayaka and more by freedom fighter and all-round Thamizh-loving genius Subramania Bharatiyar. He's the one who wrote the unforgettable 'Suttum Vizhi': a love song to Krishna as a woman in a blue saree. A version of this also came in Kandukondain Kandukondain and was sung to Aishwarya Rai in an appropriately blue saree. Here: http://www.bestsharing.com/files/swYV5Z2...V.zip.html It's really beautiful. Try it. And one can hear how 'zh' in Thamizh is pronounced, hard to explain how it's between a 'y' and an 'l', but it's clear when one hears it.) - 'Selections from Balaji Pancharatnamala' (contains Ganesha Pancharatnam, <i>Madhurastakam</i>, Dasavatharam-Gita Govindam, Nama Ramayanam, Hanuman chalisa) - 'Vinayakar Agaval And Other Songs' (Vinayakar Agaval, Vinayakar Kavacham, Muruga Muruga, Saravana Bhava Guhaney, older rendition of Kurai Onrum Illai and 6 more) <b>Other MSS releases:</b> The following includes some of my dad's old records - but I've seen them on CD too. I plan to get them eventually. There are many more I think, but I don't really know all MSS albums. - 'Bhaja Govindam - Vishnu Sahasranamam' Which contains those two. Bodhi posted Bhaja Govindam, I believe. - 'Meera Bhajans - Hindi Devotional' - 'Meera - Sakuntalai - Tamil Films Songs' (MSS acted in these films when she was younger, and sang for them. They're very famous.) - 'Popular Melodies of M.S. Subbulakshmi - Tamil Devotional' - The two-disc 'Live At Carnegie Hall', which amongst others contains her famous rendition of Maithreem Bhajata written for her to sing by Kanchi Shankaracharya Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi. Her husband sings backup and they sound nice together (he's very good at singing going by this song). You can listen to a similar rendition of this also by MSS at MusicIndiaOnline. Or here's what I recorded from there: http://www.bestsharing.com/files/5FxCY29...B.zip.html - There's more than one volume of 'Sri Annamacharya Samkirtanas', I don't know how many - 'Suprabhathams' With the famous Sri Venkatesa Suprabhatham (Samskritam rendition, Thamizh rendition elsewhere). The other Suprabhathams it contains are Sri Kamakshi Suprabhatham, Kashi Viswanatha Suprabhatham, Rameswaram Ramanatha Suprabhatham. I don't know which of her CDs contains her beautiful Siva Panchakshara, my sister looked for it everywhere (hence I recorded mine off MusicIndiaOnline). <b>Bombay Sisters:</b> - 'Mahishasura Mardhini' Next to the title shloka there are 5 more - 'Devi Stothramalika' 11 shlokas on our Devi, no overlap with the above of course. - 'Sri Lalitha Trisathi & Other Devi Stothras' 5 shlokas on our Mother - 'Lakshmi Sahasranamam' ~1 hour rendition - 'Sri Lalitha Sahasranama' The Sri Lalitha Sahasranamam and the smaller Sri Lalitha Asthotaram shlokam -'Soundarya Lahari' Unparalleled Beauty. ~1 hour rendition - 'Stothara Maala' 14 shlokas on the Gods this time (Ganapathi, Shanmuga, ends with Hanuman; and several on both Mahavishnu and Shiva) - 'Sri Hanuman Chalisa & Other Hanumath Stothras' 11 shlokas all on Hanuman! <b>Sulamangalam sisters:</b> - 'Devi Stothra Maala' 'Sri Saraswati Stothram' and 11 more including one on Sri Tulasi (Devi of the sacred auspicious Tulasi plant) - 'Mahishasura Mardhini & Other Devi Stothras' 6 shlokas - 'Sri Aditya Hridayam & Stothras - Sanskrit Devotional' 12 shlokas on different Gods and Goddesses I've seen all these CDs available in Indian online music stores in the US for about $5 to $8 US each. For those living in the US/Canada they appear to be pretty easy to obtain from their websites. However, for those living elsewhere such as myself: it is very easy to get these and many more from regular or Hindu music shops when you're in India. They're nowhere as expensive as Indian movie soundtrack CDs. (I had saved up enough to buy 4 CDs last time. Fortunately for me, my sister bought a great number <!--emo& --><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> )ADDED - Wrote above: <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->the unforgettable 'Suttum Vizhi' (by Subramaniam Bharatiyar): a love song to Krishna as a woman in a blue saree. A version of this also came in Kandukondain Kandukondain and was sung to Aishwarya Rai in an appropriately blue saree.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->My mother can't accurately recall whether it is a song to Devi in a blue saree or Krishna in a female incarnation, in a blue saree. She studied it way long ago during high school. But we've got a cassette of songs on Krishna by a carnatic vocalist which contains 'Suttum Vizhi' too. So it's kind of either. Besides, as Devi is called Krishni (being Mahavishnu's sister) it comes down to the same thing in the end.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rirkQItHEs4
Videoclip of "Kannamoochchi Yenada, yen Kanna" - from Kandukondain Kandukondain (Title means 'Why are you playing Hide and Seek, my Krishna?') See Aishwarya dance wearing a traditional half-saree. Song and dance are both based on traditional, classical forms. Vairamuthu wrote some smashing lyrics for this film. I'll try and find some translations when I get the time. http://konkan.tv/view/64fefc12f56739424d13 Videoclip of the "Kandukondain Kandukondain" song from the film of the same name. http://konkan.tv/view/42cad06f24ff25df5671 "Yenna Solla Pogirai", same film. Means 'What will you say?' ('What is your answer?') http://konkan.tv/view/c3e1b87f3c522836e915 "Konjum Mainakale" (Aish's character sings her wishes and dreams to Mynah birds) Aish in many sarees. <b>ADDED:</b> Found the link to translations of Kandukondain x 2 songs, in case any one was interested. It used to be on the official film webpage years ago, but its contents have now been demoted to someone's unofficial homepage. What am I complaining, at least it's still out there: http://www.geocities.com/kandukondainthefilm/song6.html Kannamoochchi Yenada, Yen Kanna (with mention of Govardhana Malai incident) http://www.geocities.com/kandukondainthefilm/song2.html Konjum Mainakale http://www.geocities.com/kandukondainthefilm/song4.html Kandukondain Kandukondain http://www.geocities.com/kandukondainthefilm/song7.html Suttum Vizhi http://www.geocities.com/kandukondainthefilm/song1.html Yenna Solla Pogirai
06-20-2007, 03:25 AM
Deccan Chronicel, 20 June 2007
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Hunt on for Nile land of gold  <b>On the periphery of history in antiquity, there was a land known as Kush. Overshadowed by Egypt, to the north, it was a place of uncharted breadth and depth far up the Nile, a mystery verging on myth.</b> One thing the Egyptians did know and recorded â Kush had gold. Scholars have come to learn that there was more to the culture of Kush than was previously suspected. <b>From deciphered Egyptian documents and modern archaeological research, it is now known that for five centuries in the second millennium BC, the kingdom of Kush flourished with the political and military prowess to maintain some control over a wide territory in Africa.</b> Kushâs governing success would seem to have been anomalous, or else conventional ideas about statehood rest too narrowly on the experiences of early civilisations like Mesopotamia, Egypt and China. <b>How could a fairly complex state society exist without a writing system, an extensive bureaucracy or major urban centres, none of which Kush evidently had?</b> <b>Archaeologists are now finding some answers â at least intriguing insights â emerging in advance of rising Nile waters behind a new dam in northern Sudan. Hurried excavations are uncovering ancient settlements, cemeteries and gold-processing centres in regions previously unexplored. In recent reports and interviews, archaeologists said they had found widespread evidence that the kingdom of Kush, in its ascendancy from 2000 BC to 1500 BC, exerted control or at least influence over a 750-mile stretch of the Nile Valley. </b> This region extended from the first cataract in the Nile, as attested by an Egyptian monument, all the way upstream to beyond the fourth cataract. The area covered part of the larger geographic region of indeterminate borders known in antiquity as Nubia. Some archaeologists theorise that the discoveries show that the rulers of Kush were the first in sub-Saharan Africa to hold sway over so vast a territory. <b>âThis makes Kush a more major player in political and military dynamics of the time than we knew before,â said Geoff Emberling, co-leader of a University of Chicago expedition. âStudying Kush helps scholars have a better idea of what statehood meant in an ancient context outside such established power centres of Egypt and Mesopotamia.â</b> Gil Stein, director of the Oriental Institute at the university, said: <b>âUntil now, virtually all that we have known about Kush came from the historical records of their Egyptian neighbours and from limited explorations of monumental architecture at the Kushite capital city, Kerma.â </b> <b>To archaeologists, knowing that a virtually unexplored land of mystery is soon to be flooded has the same effect as Samuel Johnson ascribed to one facing the gallows in the morning. It concentrates the mind.</b> Over the last few years, archaeological teams from Britain, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Sudan and the United States have raced to dig at sites that will soon be underwater. <b>The teams were surprised to find hundreds of settlement ruins, cemeteries and examples of rock art that had never been studied. One of the most comprehensive salvage operations has been conducted by groups headed by Henryk Paner of the Gdansk Archaeological Museum in Poland, which surveyed 711 ancient sites in 2003 alone. âThis area is so incredibly rich in archaeology,â Derek Welsby of the British Museum said in a report last winter in Archaeology magazine. </b> The scale of the salvage effort hardly compares to the response in the 1960s to the Aswan High Dam, which flooded a part of Nubia that then reached into what is southern Egypt. Imposing temples that the pharaohs erected at Abu Simbel and Philae were dismantled and restored on higher ground. The Kushites, left no such grand architecture to be rescued. Their kingdom declined and eventually disappeared by the end of the 16th century BC, as Egypt grew more powerful and expansive under rulers of the period known as New Kingdom. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> In India many dams are being built. Is there enough care being taken to preserve teh heritage?
06-20-2007, 10:06 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--> Is there enough care being taken to preserve teh heritage? <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, Bhakra Nagal Dam is a good example, Lot of historical structures, temples disappeared, Nehru like always covered everything with no regrets. <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->The Bhakra dam led to the displacement of around 36,000 people and submerged Bilaspur, a town with a population of 4,000 people. The report points out that more than 50 years later, many of the oustees have not been settled fully despite efforts, albeit sporadic, by the government. K.L. Rao, the Irrigation Minister at the Centre when the dam was built, narrates in his memoirs an incident during one of his visits to the dam site. A resident of Bhakra village pointed out to him that though the dam site was heavily lit at night, his village did not receive any electricity. Rao ordered that the village be supplied electricity free, though the Bhakra Beas Management declared that this would be an unfair burden on the project. The village finally received electricity in 1970, but they had to pay for it.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->
06-20-2007, 10:34 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-Mudy+Jun 19 2007, 11:36 PM-->QUOTE(Mudy @ Jun 19 2007, 11:36 PM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->No, Bhakra Nagal Dam is a good example, Lot of historical structures, temples disappeared, Nehru like always covered everything with no regrets.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> So also Nagarjunasagar in Andhra- destroyed some of the oldest Hindu and bauddha temples - of course Hindu temples never mattered to secularists.
The recent being the Tehri dam which submerged the whole holy town of Tehri associated with the Pandavas. Several ancient holy sites got submerged, including upa-Badrinath, upa-Kedaranath, Satyeshwar Mahadev, Bhagirathi mandir, the site where Swami Ram Teerth took the Jal-samadhi at the sangam of Ganga and Bhilangna rivers.
Apathy towards Rama Setu being the latest example. There is hardly any water in Ganga today. It is a shameful sight at the ghats of Varanasi and Prayag. Just for the Kumbh this year, they released some water for the sake of Kumbha, after agitating Hindu public's demands.
07-04-2007, 02:48 AM
I read that Charkha (spinning wheels) originates from Persia, and is not an Indian thingie. Essentially an Muslim icon. Can anybody verify that what I read is true? Thanks.
07-04-2007, 03:48 AM
How about doing some research and then post the question? Also consider where cotton originated and read the scholarly work of K.D. Sethna on kapas/cotton.
07-04-2007, 05:50 AM
How about some patience and courtesy? If you like to share information then share it without putting down people. You hardly know if I did some basic research or not. I very clearly said I read it somewhere and needed to verify that it indeed was correct.
07-04-2007, 06:07 AM
Anyway, it is only fair for me to provide a quote on why I posted.
Talking about Sultan Raziya, John Keay writes in "India: A History" Page 245, 247 <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->So too may have been the appointment as 'personal attendant to her majesty' of Jamal-ud-din-Yakut, an 'Abyssinian' who was probably once a slave and very definitely an African. A liaison so conspicuous duly brought unfavorable comment from the historian Isami. Declaring that a woman's place was 'at her spinning wheel [charkha]' and that high office would only derange her, he insisted Raziya should have made 'cotton her companion and grief her wine-cup'. These lines, written in 1350, are of additional interest in that, according to Irfan Habib, Indian's most distinguished economic historian, they contain 'the earliest reference to the spinning wheel so far traced in India'.<b> Since the device is known in Iran from a prior period, 'the inference is almost inescapable that the spinning wheel came to India with the Muslims'. So did the paper on which Isami penned his patronising lines,....</b> <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> Page 247 <!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->In adopting the charkha as the symbol of Indian independence, Mahatma Gandhi and the Congress Party were not, however courting Muslim votes. The irony of predominantly Hindu India sporting a national icon of Islamic provenance went unnoticed. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd--> So, I tried to gather some verification on what I read. Simple. |
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