Miscellaneous Topics discussion

Husky · (This post was last modified: 11-19-2007, 11:29 PM by Husky.)

You might find the following post interesting (in case you haven't read it yet):
Dhu's post in the DNA thread containing images of similarities in SE Asian architecture (Indonesian Batak House) and Viking architecture of some church. Especially read what he writes.
The first image there doesn't work, but try here for a different image of the same.

QUOTE(Raju @ Nov 19 2007, 09:28 PM)<b>Added</b>: You talked about appropriating other cultures in case of China ... Only thing missing is the 'hard evidence' which I am sure will surface soon.[right][snapback]75418[/snapback][/right]When/if there's hard evidence, it's not appropriating (it's fact then). It's only speculations/theories presented as fact that constitute appropriation, especially when not all the sources they are based on are reliable.

<i>By the way, you don't require me to agree with you. I'm just another member here, like you.
I also tend to disagree a lot. It's of no consequence.</i>

Your prolific use of "Naga" is like others' use of "Vedic": everything begins and ends with Naga now, including things that yesterday others claimed were Vedic or Vedic-derived (Shiva, Krishna, Buddhism, ... NW of India, ... ).
IMO it seems rather that they're just two words for the same thing: Hindu/Dharmic culture. Well, Naga Devas were always part of Hindu culture... And so too obviously the Dharmic communities who worshipped them. (Worship of Naga Pambu, Naga Devas is rather mainstream in TN and possibly rest of India.)

QUOTENow, we do know that Jat/Rajput are of hephthalite (him-taali)/snowy plains origin (or is that also in debate ?),Again, I'm not going to go there.
Though you might want to read Kaushal's post.

11-20-2007, 01:14 AM

The Naga link of ancient Chinese dragon passes through ancient tartars and their constant wars with Yuan dynasty. The Yuan dynasty has borrowed the dragon symbol from the tartars who went to war with it.

King Sototi -> Takshak Naga -> Tartars -> Wars with Yuan dynasty -> Yuan king borrows tartars dragon (Naga) coat of arms as well as dragon lore.

there is also corruption of the word Taskshak into Chinese Takiuks (TUNG-hUI) of Turkmenistan (Sinkiang) which was believed to be part of "SHESHA NAg DESHA".

The Manchu/Manchurians who are a tatar turkic tribe of central asia were always in constant war with the Yuan Qings of China. Manchu kings were famous for wearing dragon robes. In one such war the Yuan emperor defeated the Manchu king and borrowed his dragon robe as memorabilia of his victory. It is from there that the Chinese emperors started associating with Dragons.

Manchu Tatars wear the dragon robe as part of their Yilan (serpent/Naga) traditions. This is a legacy of takshak/bhakshak the Nagas who gave the sarpa legacy to the tatars. And the Tatars popularized this symbol in China by carrying this as motif in their warring expeditions.

<b>Takshak (Sanskritised) -> tukiuk (turkic) -> tung-hui (Chinese Manchu tatars)</b>

11-20-2007, 11:00 AM

The Manchu Dragon

<img src='http://www.peggyhannum.com/images/manchudragon.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

http://www.geocities.com/songkhla.geo/QING1872.GIF

http://www.geocities.com/songkhla.geo/QING1890.GIF

11-20-2007, 11:17 AM

Manchu

also called Man people who lived for many centuries mainly in Manchuria (now Northeast) and adjacent areas of China and who in the 17th century conquered China and ruled for more than 250 years. The term Manchu dates from the 16th century, but it is certain that the Manchu are descended from a group of peoples collectively called the Tungus (the Even and Evenk are also descended from that group). The Manchu, under other names, had lived in northeastern Manchuria in prehistoric times. <b>In early Chinese records they were known as the Donghui (Tung-hui), or âEastern Barbariansâ</b>; in the 3rd century BC they were given the name Sushen, or Yilou; in the 4th to 7th centuries AD Chinese historians spoke of them as Wuji, or Momo; and in the 10th century AD as Juchen (NÃ¼zhen in Pinyin). These Juchen established a kingdom of some extent and importance in Manchuria, and by AD 1115 their dynasty (called Jin in Chinese records) had secured control over northeastern China. The kingdom was annihilated by the Mongols in 1234, and the surviving Juchen were driven back into northeastern Manchuria. Three centuries later the descendants of these Juchen again came into prominence, but before long they dropped the name Juchen for Manchu. They regained control of Manchuria, moved south, and conquered Beijing (1644); and by 1680 the Manchu had established complete control over all sections of China under the name of the Qing dynasty. The Manchu managed to maintain a brilliant and powerful government until about 1800, after which they rapidly lost energy and ability. It was not, however, until 1911/12 that the Qing dynasty was overthrown.

Modern research shows that the Juchen-Manchu speak a language belonging to the sparse but geographically widespread Manchu-Tungus subfamily of the Altaic languages. At an early date, probably about the 1st century AD, various Manchu-Tungus-speaking tribes moved from their homeland in or near northeastern Manchuria to the north and west and eventually occupied most of Siberia between the Yenisey River and the Pacific Ocean. The Manchu became established in the south, while the Even, Evenk, and other peoples predominated in the north and west.

From the Chinese records it is evident that the Yilou, the Tungus ancestors of the Manchu, were essentially hunters, fishers, and food gatherers, though in later times they and their descendants, the Juchen and Manchu, developed a primitive form of agriculture and animal husbandry. The Juchen-Manchu were accustomed to braid their hair into a queue, or pigtail. When the Manchu conquered China they forced the Chinese to adopt this custom as a sign of loyalty to the new dynasty. (<i>this is the Indian Kuduma style that Manchus have</i>) Apart from this, the Manchu made no attempt to impose their manners and customs upon the Chinese. After the conquest of China, the greater part of the Manchu migrated there and kept their ancestral estates only as hunting lodges. Eventually these estates were broken up and sold to or occupied by Chinese (Han) immigrant farmers. By 1900 even in Manchuria the new Chinese settlers greatly outnumbered the Manchu.

The Manchu emperorsâdespite their splendid patronage of Chinese art, scholarship, and culture over the centuriesâmade strenuous efforts to prevent the Manchu from being absorbed by the Chinese. The Manchu were urged to retain the Manchu language and to give their children a Manchu education. Attempts were made to prevent the intermarriage of Manchu and Chinese, so as to keep the Manchu strain ethnically âpure.â Social intercourse between the two peoples was frowned upon. All these efforts proved fruitless. During the 19th century, as the dynasty decayed, efforts to preserve cultural and ethnic segregation gradually broke down. The Manchu began to adopt the Chinese customs and language and to intermarry with the Chinese. Few, if any, spoke the Manchu language by the end of the 20th century.

China's government, however, continues to identify the Manchu as a separate ethnic group (numbering more than 10.5 million in the early 21st century). The Manchu live mainly in Liaoning, Jilin, Heilongjiang, and Hebei provinces, in Beijing, and in the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region.

Vedic Kuduma - Pigtail

11-23-2007, 08:10 PM

[quote=Husky,Oct 31 2007, 05:34 PM]

I thought Siberians were more closely related to the Sami and Fins and possibly Estonians. As in, they're part of the western branch of Finno-Ugric peoples. Whereas Mongolians and Turkic people were part of the Eastern branch, or so I was led to believe. The rest of Russia is plonked in between the two.
I'm almost certain I've seen Finnish sites mention Saami Religion and Siberian Shamanism as being closely related to theirs and more distantly to Hungarian and even more distantly to Turkic and Mongolian.

I was talking about gingis khan.And siberian conquest by russians as monghol empire reloaded.Finno-ugric language family is diferent from turko-mongol language family.
From religious point of view ,yes,shamanism was spread in all Siberia.There are cases when russian missionaries throw idols to the ground(to show their powerless),which make native siberians become angry at missionaries.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 11-27-2007, 02:49 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(dhu @ Nov 1 2007, 08:00 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIt's all because of the christian meme that they've not been able to shake, 

I knew you would bring this up, huskybhai. Meme model was lifted from the discrete units of genetics. This model is regularly applied to the religion domain but it does not capture the intent behind the propagation of these ideologies. Meme model was invented to obfuscate responsibilty and traceability of the actors behind these ideologies. We are replicating model of 'original sin' when we speak of this meme floating throughout history.[right][snapback]74722[/snapback][/right]</div>So this was the thread - I was looking in the "christianism" threads instead.
Dhu, I know that the concept of memes was not invented for non-genetics purposes. But I've found that memes are the only explanation for why former-christians are such sane and humane people while - going by their self-description of their former selves (before their 'de'-conversion) - they used to be totally the opposite. The same goes for islam. When they leave the Religion of Peace, they no longer think taking out as many of the kaffirs as possible - even if it comes down to shaheeding themselves - is a sensible let alone compassionate pastime.
Nothing of good has been accomplished by either religion. Sane people who adopt it either go mad immediately or (if they are still under the benign influence of their old religion/atheism) their next generations go violent 'zealous'. It's the people that leave christianism/islamism/communism that have returned to humanity.

I agree with your statement about "actors behind these ideologies" who were definitely there as you have shown with Atwill's material on Titus. But the virus that was unleashed has mutated beyond all laboratory confines now and is capable of driving itself quite well with ridiculous ideas like "you've sinned, you need a fix, meet jeebus and tell your friends/make them join".
Some people manage to snap out of it and when they do, they're as good as old. Doesn't that support a "memetic disease" view of christoislamicommunism? I find it does. The same goes for ex-communistos (Sita Ram Goel and others in India, for example), who return to being so normal and likeable after leaving the rabid komrade klub (while going by their own descriptions of how they used to be and how they fretted over struggling for world revolution, it sounds pretty much like a christian on "fire for jesus" and eager to set the world aflame too or a muslim jihadding for dar-ul-islam).

QUOTE(Honsol @ Nov 23 2007, 08:10 PM)Finno-ugric language family is diferent from turko-mongol language family.[right][snapback]75537[/snapback][/right]You're right of course. I confused myself as usual. "Finno-Ugric" sounded like the two groups I was looking for, when in reality it was supposed to be FU's superfamily Uralic-Altaic or something. Its believers think that Uralic-Altaic consists of FU and Japanese and Turkic and who knows what else.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/languag.../finnougric.htm
QUOTESome <b>believe</b> the Finno-Ugric languages share a common ancestry with Turkish and Japanese. The umbrella language group is called Ural-Altaic. Three branches of the Altaic group are Turkic, Mongolian, and Manchu-Tungus. The Ural group is formed of two language groups: Finno-Ugric and Samoyed.I'm glad they wrote the word "believe". All they need to do now is have the honesty to apply that as fearlessly to other similar belief systems...
More on FU and the "Uralic-Altaic" theory/belief: http://www.helsinki.fi/~jolaakso/fufaq.html

QUOTEThere are cases when russian missionaries throw idols to the ground(to show their powerless),which make native siberians become angry at missionaries.They should take video/pictures of it on the mobile phone and put it up in Utoob as examples of "christianity loving its neighbours".

11-27-2007, 11:23 AM

QUOTE(Husky @ Nov 26 2007, 02:42 PM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEThere are cases when russian missionaries throw idols to the ground(to show their powerless),which make native siberians become angry at missionaries.They should take video/pictures of it on the mobile phone and put it up in Utoob as examples of "christianity loving its neighbours".
[right][snapback]75594[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Not today, but in 14 century for exemple,Stephen the apostle of permians(born from a russian father and a permian mother),after converting the permians,he start cut down the holy trees of their religion-his life on srb site
http://www.serbianorthodoxchurch.net/
www.serbianorthodoxchurch.net
http://www.serbianorthodoxchurch.net/cgi-b...ew=873361141012

And tree role in permian religion
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:AHeVM...clnk&cd=7&gl=ro
And dhu have right when he said that russians are imperialist,just like british or french ,they want their own colonial empire.

dhu · (This post was last modified: 11-27-2007, 12:32 PM by dhu.)

QUOTE(Husky @ Nov 27 2007, 11:23 AM)Some people manage to snap out of it and when they do, they're as good as old. Doesn't that support a "memetic disease" view of christoislamicommunism? I find it does.
[right][snapback]75628[/snapback][/right]


A culture or tradition is passed down as a meme. Religion claims to be derived from universal (natural) laws and passes down only as Revelation; that is, Religion is "discovered". This is the critical distinction. The application of Reason or Logos to the domain of Tradition was the original error.

Of course, we can draw out a history of religion. This is a different matter.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 11-27-2007, 04:01 PM by Husky.)

QUOTE(dhu @ Nov 27 2007, 12:20 PM)A culture or tradition is passed down as a meme.Â Religion claims to be derived from universal (natural) laws and passes down only as Revelation; that is, Religion is "discovered".Â This is the critical distinction.Â The application of Reason or Logos to the domain of Tradition was the original error.

Of course, we can draw out a history of religion.Â This is a different matter.
[right][snapback]75630[/snapback][/right]Hmm, lots of food for thought. Thanks.
(Not that I think christoislamism was ever trying to apply Reason... though communism pretends to and makes a big show of it. But I <i>think</i> you use the word Reason "or Logos" above as Revelation: sudden truth claims by a new religion that are "revealed" and therefore need no historicity/ancientry to give it a basis for validity; and hence it becomes a religion that can be adopted by any to replace long-standing traditions? That, or I totally missed what you were trying to say... Will have to re-read your post a dozen times as usual.)

By the way, I was using 'meme' as 'mind-virus'. Not in any meaning it may (?)have as "the passing down of age-old traditions to the next generation"; but rather as the infection of minds by (bad though popular) ideas, where the more powerful/appealing the idea the more powerful/successful the meme.
Though I think (or delude myself into thinking that) I understand your use of it in the above.

<b>ADDED:</b>
#347:
Thanks Honsol. The content on p.70 (<i>after</i> para 1) at http://www.erm.ee/pdf/pro18/chuvyurov.pdf is very lovely and wholesome. The para immediately prior to it is depressing though. I will paste the bits elsewhere on IF.

11-28-2007, 01:51 AM

QUOTE(Honsol @ Nov 27 2007, 11:23 AM)Not today, but in 14 century for exemple,Stephen the apostle of permians(born from a russian father and a permian mother),after converting the permians,he start cut down the holy trees of their religion-his life on srb site


This is a recurring theme in all heathen--christian encounters. Another example would be the felling of Thor's Oak (an ancient tree sacred to the Germanic pagan tribes) by St Boniface in his attempt to convert the heathens. ChristoIslamics have both used the same tactics to achieve their objectives. Boniface later used the wood from the felled tree to build a church in that region. (sounds familiar in the context of Hindu temple destruction and Mosque construction doesn't it?)

ramana · 11-28-2007, 02:04 AM

QUOTE(dhu @ Nov 1 2007, 02:30 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTEIt's all because of the christian meme that they've not been able to shake, 

I knew you would bring this up, huskybhai. Meme model was lifted from the discrete units of genetics. This model is regularly applied to the religion domain but it does not capture the intent behind the propagation of these ideologies. Meme model was invented to obfuscate responsibilty and traceability of the actors behind these ideologies. <b>We are replicating model of 'original sin' when we speak of this meme floating throughout history.</b>
[right][snapback]74722[/snapback][/right]
</div>

Dhu, Explain why you used the "original sin" model when we talk about the meme business?

dhu · (This post was last modified: 11-28-2007, 02:38 PM by dhu.)

QUOTE(ramana @ Nov 28 2007, 02:04 AM)Dhu, Explain why you used the "original sin" model when we talk about the meme business?
[right][snapback]75650[/snapback][/right]


Original sin model refers to the claim that the Abrahamic malaise is some deficiency in the Abrahamic perception that can be corrected or "saved". But actually, we know from Bala., that the Abrahamic operates in a completely different "configuration of learning" than the heathen. This configuration of learning persists as the abrahamic switches between any of the religions and their secular variants.

In the abrahamic model, it makes sense to speak of moderate vs. extreme interpretations or partisans. In the heathen model, we have only entities such a kshatriya, vaishya etc. The latter categories are a more accurate description of Reality, but are not amenable to propaganda.

12-03-2007, 02:32 PM

Bheel Narrative of Ramayana to be recorded for preservation.

QUOTENEW DELHI: A group of 'Bhil' tribals in their colourful costume, men sporting traditional headgear are all devotion, performing their rituals, not perturbed by a camera crew recording them.

It is not a scene from a regular film or a documentary being shot. The performance and for these tribals their very own Ramayana , which is different from the one we know, is a part of a massive documentation work being undertaken by the Indira Gandhi National Centre for the Arts.

This documentation is crucial as till now there has been no record made of what form of Ramayana narrative the tribals in India have been following from centuries. It has been a oral narrative passed from one generation to another.

Molly Kaushal, Head of the Department, Jansampada Department of IGNCA says that it is important to record and document it for preservation. "...because when globalization grows, this heritage will get diffused...lost, and by making record of it, not only we will preserve it but also more people will get a chance to see it", she says.

The work currently being undertaken is about different versions of Ram Katha , or Ramayana , as prevalent among the tribals of the country in narrative and oral forms, and different from the one we have heard.

Starting this week, tribals from states of Gujarat, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan, Assam and West Bengal would be coming to Delhi and performing their version of the story of Ram, as they have learnt it from their ancestors and passed on from one generation to another in the family, and of one which there is no written record.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Tribal_...how/2591416.cms

12-05-2007, 11:09 AM

QUOTE(Pandyan @ Nov 28 2007, 01:51 AM)<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Honsol @ Nov 27 2007, 11:23 AM)Not today, but in 14 century for exemple,Stephen the apostle of permians(born from a russian father and a permian mother),after converting the permians,he start cut down the holy trees of their religion-his life on srb site
This is a recurring theme in all heathen--christian encounters. Another example would be the felling of Thor's Oak (an ancient tree sacred to the Germanic pagan tribes) by St Boniface in his attempt to convert the heathens. ChristoIslamics have both used the same tactics to achieve their objectives. Boniface later used the wood from the felled tree to build a church in that region. <b>(sounds familiar in the context of Hindu temple destruction and Mosque construction doesn't it?)</b>
[right][snapback]75648[/snapback][/right]</div>Pandyan, not just the islamics but also the christos did the same in India:
- In Goa: for some examples of church construction over Hindu temples the christoterrorists from Portugal destroyed, see History of christianism thread, post 74 and roundabouts. It contains excerpts from the journal paper "Flight of the Deities: Hindu Resistance in Portuguese Goa" by Axelrod and Fuerch.
- Ishwar Sharan's book "The Myth of Saint Thomas" is not just about the Thomas myth but also about what happened to the Mylapore Shiva Temple and other Dharmic temples.
http://hamsa.org/intro1.htm
QUOTEThe first St. Thomas story was invented to give these Syrian immigrants Indian ancestry and the patronage of a local martyr-saintâChristianity is the religion of martyrs3âand it was resurrected and embellished in the sixteenth century by Jesuit and Franciscan missionaries who needed a pious story of persecution to cover up their own persecution of the Hindus. This is another reason for the Church to promote the story in Madras, for during that period she and her imperial Portuguese âsecular armâ destroyed many temples in Mylapore and its environs.- And we must not forget the oh so "impartial and secular" christoterrorists of Britain who made their own contribution in its colonial heyday:
http://hamsa.org/interview.htm
QUOTE<b>17. There seems to be a large element of land-grab in the actions of Christians in India. They buy land, get it ceded by the authorities, and then grab the hillsides by painting crosses on rocks and. claiming the area as Christian.</b>
The Christian churches are the largest landowners in India after the government. Much of this land is alienated temple land that was given to them by the British in the 19th century.Yes, how <i>truly</i> secular (with a P) of the christoterrorist Brits to give Hindu Temple lands to churches.

Temple destruction followed by the building of a church/mosque over the sacred site is one of the few "universal" traits of christoislamism. Universal, as in: both ideologies have applied it universally wherever their angry little tentacles got any kind of hold.

Husky · (This post was last modified: 12-05-2007, 12:18 PM by Husky.)

Continued from above.

http://hamsa.org/10.htm
QUOTEThe archaeological evidence indicates that these churches were built after the ninth century by Nestorian immigrants from Persia. The famous church at Palayur north of Cranganore was built by the Portuguese and is dedicated to the fourth century martyr St. Cyriac (Mar Kuriakkos Sahada). Fr. Herman D'Souza, in In the Steps of St. Thomas, writes, "The [Palayur] temple deserted by the Brahmins as a result of St. Thomas's efforts, was turned into a church. Pieces of broken idols and remnants of the old temple were lying around the church till a short time ago. Two large tanks, one on the eastern side of the church and the other near the western gate, are tell-tale relics of the ancient glory of the Hindu temple." D'Souza was writing in 1983 and includes pictures of the old temple walls, well and tank in his book. He is blaming St. Thomas for the templeâbreaking activities of the Portuguese and Syrian Christians.
More, including the christoterrorists from France:
http://hamsa.org/14.htm
QUOTEM. Arunachalam, in an article in Christianity in India: A Critical Study, writes, "It is well known that the Portuguese sacked the famous Tiruchendur Murugan Temple on the sea coast and threw the idol into the sea. Sometime later, in 1654, the chieftain Vadamalaiyappa Pillai of Tirunelveli, salvaged the idol from the sea and installed it at the present Tiruchendur temple."[41]

He continues, "The Tirumalai Nayak Mahal [at Madurai] is another example. Jealous of its magnificence, the British began demolishing it, but public agitation checked it and what we have today is only a part of what was originally there."

The British were generally less destructive than the Portuguese and the French, but they did not hesitate to attack temples that were in the way of construction works or to desecrate them as a means of intimidating the local populace. They fired on the temples of Kalahasti in Andhra Pradesh for this last reason; and Victoria Terminus in Bombay is built on the original site of that city's famous Mumbai Devi Temple. In Madras they obliterated the small Hindu shrines that once stood inside Fort St. George. The fort now contains St. Mary's Church, the first Protestant church built east of Suez.

But it is the French who vied with the Portuguese in their Christian zeal to destroy Pagan places of worship. Henry Love, in Vestiges of Old Madras, records that they used temples as barracks in their military operations against the British. Between 1672 and 1674, at Madras, they fortified the rebuilt Kapalees--wara Temple in Mylapore and the Parthasarathy Temple in Triplicane when they were besieged by Golconda and the Dutch.That page then continues about what happened in Pondicherry (originally called Pandya Sherry, after the Pandyans).
More on the original Kapaleeshwarar Kovil and what christoterrorists did at http://hamsa.org/15.htm and http://hamsa.org/16.htm

Oooh, look, here's an apt little summary of christoislamism
http://hamsa.org/appendixes.htm
QUOTEWhile the rabidly fanatic Tipu Sultan "the bandit of Mysore" destroyed two thousand temples in the Malabar region to establish Islam, it was the British rulers acting at the behest of Christian missionaries who, starting from two hundred years ago, dug the grave of the Kerala temples. The wily British accomplished this not by resorting to anything so crude and beastly as demolishing them: but by simply confiscating all of them "in the name of the state of course" along with all their landed properties and then making sure that the temples rotted away from calculated, steady attrition.

The present [1991] United Democratic Government of Kerala, under the command of the Muslim League and the Kerala Congress (a front party for the Churches) is now living up to the tradition of all former Kerala governments by following this same policy with enthusiasm and vigour.

Not only the British overlords but also the governments that came into power in Kerala after 1947 were never content with this wholesale robbery alone of temple properties. They continuously plundered, and helped others plunder, the relatively better off temples of even parts of the grounds the temples stood on; and also of the offerings of devotees. The latest of these forays is the still standing order (now under review by the High Court) of K. Karunakaran, the Chief Minister of Kerala, that the Guruvayur Sri Krishna Temple Dewaswom (the management appointed by the Government) withdraw ten crores from the banks and deposit the amount with the state treasury to help the Government out of its present financial crisis.

The following para makes a very good point, even if it's on another topic from what I meant to be posting on:
http://hamsa.org/09.htm
QUOTEThe Portuguese had come to India to spread their religion and to tradeâin that order, too, which is why Portugal is a poor country today even after ruling rich colonies. In the process they acquired the raw materials for <b>a new cult, the St. Thomas legend</b>, which would prove to be their most enduring "gift" to Mylaporeâalong with a large number of churches that have been built on temple sites around the southern coasts. <b>The cult would also give imported Christianity the veneer of being an indigenous Indian religion, a political gift to the Catholic Church more valuable than all the pearls and pepper that went to Lisbon.</b>Ishwar Sharan's book and that of Sita Ram Goel at the http://hamsa.org site are Must Reads for every Hindu.

12-13-2007, 02:19 PM

Husky,Dec 5 2007, 11:09 AM Wrote:[quote=Pandyan,Nov 28 2007, 01:51 AM][quote=Honsol,Nov 27 2007, 11:23 AM]Not today, but in 14 century for exemple,Stephen the apostle of permians(born from a russian father and a permia
Temple destruction followed by the building of a church/mosque over the sacred site is one of the few "universal" traits of christoislamism. Universal, as in: both ideologies have applied it universally wherever their angry little tentacles got any kind of hold.
[right][snapback]75831[/snapback][/right]

HUsky,now you see the orthodox "non-violence"?
What happen to heathens acording to orthodox saint
1-all go in hell(though they sufer less comparative whit christians from hell,thats not a consolation still)no matter if they are moral or imoral
2-the moral heathens go in haven-but wait,their souls are blind and cant see anything(cant see God)or, they are in neutral state (noy suffer ,not enjoy)

What my religios teacher tell me in school?
'The perfect christian religion is:orthodox philosophy,catholic organization and protestant missionarism' <img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lmaosmiley.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='lmaosmiley.gif' />

12-14-2007, 03:29 AM

Honsol,
Currently, I am seeing lots of people from Romania are into Vedic astrology. Can you provide some insight what is happening?

Shambhu · 01-05-2008, 07:20 AM

Sorry could not find the Setu thread

Reality of Ram-Sethu in Sri Lanka Part (1)

10 Skeletons of 17 yrs ago discovered in Ravana Ela Cave

Will modern secular Ravanas attack Ravana Ella Cave, another proof of Ram Sethu? Sri Lankan paleontologist, Dr Paul Deraniyagala, discovered ten skeletons of 17 Milions ago when Ram Sethu was made.

Is duty of UPA with Left, Irtalian origin and born to destroy Ram Sethu? How is it possible when Hindus see god in each and every particle? Symbol of Unity, Every conch in the temples, Train Sethu from Egmore stn, Entire area of Rameshwaram, Hey Ram of Rajghat, Movie of Dada Saheb Falke Seth-Bandhan, celebration of Dussehra and Deepawali, Aasetu Himachal logo of GSI, Sites of tourism and Satellite photos of Adams bridge remind us Ram Sethu is a reality of 17 Million years ago.
Ram Sethu is still, Greek and Roman came and disappeared
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/103052007.htm

Dec 30 is a symbolic flattering of saffron flags in the heart of India Delhi for protection of Ram Sethu. Will this be a 'pran vayu' oxyzon as a boon of Pawan putra Hanuman? Saffron wave should flow Aasetu Himachal.
Karnataka welcomes Aasetu Himachal Saffron Wave
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/dec_07.htm

Give me food (vote), O mother vs Saint Tulsidas
[In India, it is customary to give alms and food to the begging sanyasin.]
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/110122007.htm

"Bhiksham (vote) dehi mai (SC/ST/OBC)", said Ravana (Fake Seculars) to Sita (SC/ST/OBC). They raised their salaries and passed 'Office of profit bill' to be Democratic Dictator as Hitler & Mussolini
W e got independence due to those who gave blood for freedom: "Give me blood and I will give you freedom" - Subhash Chandra Bose.
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/124082007.htm

After independence we hear fake secular slogan: "Take blood of people but give us votes"
'Take blood but give votes'
http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/123112007.htm

Ravana hided Sita

(1)
Ravana, the (Demon) Rakshasa king who reigned in Sri Lanka had his capital in Ravana Kotte, which can be identifed as part of the Southern Bases on the south eastern coast. Here, Ravana hided Sita. She remained here unbending and upright. Now waves cover this area, but a part of the fortress could be seen form time to time.

(2)
Later, Ravana took Sita from Ravana Kotte for greater security to the smallest plateau of Nuwara Eliya and to a locality known as Asoka Aramaya a pleasure garden, which had beautiful scenery and dense of forest surrounding it. Asoka trees flowered there. Sita Eliya on the outskirts of Nuwara Eliya is associated with Sita.

(3)
Hanuman also came here looking for Sita. When Rama's army was approaching, Ravana again moved Sita to a dense forested area. In Uva, at the base of a mountain crag 4500 feet above sea level is the Ravana Ella cave.

"The only Sita temple in the world"

Nuwara Eliya, the picturesque Sri Lankan hill station known for its fine quality tea, has seen a growing traffic of visitors to what tourist brochures term "the only Sita temple in the world". The constructed complex, which is patterned on the modern south Indian temple, is set in idyllic countryside beside a clear stream. Adjacent to it is another new temple dedicated to Hanuman, the monkey-god, who according to mythology was instrumental in rescuing Sita from Lanka.

The Seetha Amman Temple Trust decided few years ago to build a Sita temple at a spot believed to be the exact place where Sita was held captive by the demon-king Ravana in the Lanka of the epic, Ramayana. The temple trustees believe that this is no myth and that Sita's imprisonment at this spot is a historical fact.

The president of the Seetha Amman Trust and Central Province Minister for Tourism, V. Radha Krishnan, however offered the following as evidence that Sita once stayed in these parts: the concentration of Ashoka trees - various versions of the Ramayana sta te that Sita's home in Lanka was inside a thick Ashoka forest (Ashoka Vana) - and th

**acharya** · 01-08-2008, 12:40 PM

While there is an ongoing thread discussing the dangers of Islamic extremism in India, there are some wider issues which can also be discussed.

India, and its mainly Hindu citizens are facing economic cultural competition from four major sources. And discussion is certainly warranted. Note that I am distinguishing between West secular pop culture(which has Greco-Roman and Enlightenment, and some Christian influences) and purely Christian culture.

1. Economic & Socio-cultural Competition from Western secular popular culture:

While the West has some good ideas about civil liberties, social justice, let us not forget that absolute and utter liberty is not good for all citizens who then can not be cared for by the State. Liberty and Welfare should go together. We should be more like Scandinavia then say some right wing states in the US, without state mandated health insurance, etc.

2. Economic & socio-cultural Competition from Christianity:

Christianity has some good aspects to it, no doubt, like emphasis on charity and caring for one's fellow human being, but Christianity in competition with Indian ideologies in India is a pre-Enlightenment(European development of ideas of liberty, social justice) ideology which is anti-secular and anti-liberal. They oppose separation of Church and State, Women's rights to Abortion, and have a dated social and cultural view.

3. Economic & social-cultural competition from Political Islam:

Political Islam seeks to replace the existing Hindu dominated political and cultural landscape with a purely Islamist one. There may be more tolerant streams of political Islam, but they are not as strong in numbers as the more maintstream orthodox Wahabbi inspired thought-groups.

4. Economic & socio-cultural competition from Sino-Marxism:

Marxists and their Chinese compatriots want to weaken the dominant Hindu mindset of India to make room for a mindset which acknowledges Chinese pre-imminense in Asia, and makes room for the cultural desert of Marxism.

--------------

The above four are acknowledged sources of competition and have been spoken about by thinkers such as B. Raman, etc.

**acharya** · 01-09-2008, 10:26 PM

What do you visualize when you think about India? Women with dots on their foreheads wearing flowing, silken saris? Ravi Shankar playing strange sounding melodies on the sitar? Beatle George Harrison sitting in the yoga lotus position in deep meditation while patchouli incense wafts through the air? Gentle Mother Teresa ministering to the poor? The language of love in the Kamasutra? Brahman cattle wandering the streets, free from facing the slaughterhouse? India paints a peaceful picture in your mind. In truth, the cattle are treated more humanely than the majority of people in India.

A caste elite dominates India, totally monopolizing the nation's power and wealth. Members of the highest caste, the Brahmin caste, use their power to suppress dissent from those who are not members of their caste. We learn from incidents cited in this book that their suppression has included the use of unspeakable torture, racially based and religiously based exclusion from educational and economic opportunities, and an appalling inhumanity towards non-Hindus. In India, there is no social democracy for the lower castes and non-Hindus. This book repeatedly reinforces this theme.

Caste is a condition determined by birth. There are no social classes in India; there is only caste. In 1980, an appointed commission counted 3,743 castes composed of people who are socially and educationally deprived. Each caste is defined by their traits, such as dialect, and their occupation, such as leather workers or weavers. Over half of India's population are denied opportunities that Brahmins claim as exclusive to their caste.

When the British made India their colony, they assisted in legitimizing the Brahmin position by employing them and collaborating with them by using their existing power over the Muslim minority and the Shudra majority. When India gained its independence, the transfer of power went to the Brahmins, or from the "white" British to the "brown" British. But power over the lower castes had never left the Brahmin Hindus.

In 1938, Mohandas Gandhi, known as the Father of India, defended tradition in The Story of My Experiments with Truth. He did not want to upset the status quo too much, tending toward "separate, but equal" when talking about providing opportunities to Shudras and breaking down the barriers between Brahmins and untouchables. Gandhi saw caste as a natural division of labor. Although Gandhi had visions of a nonsectarian society for India, his words and ideas are largely forgotten in today's India.

At the same time, another leader named Bhim Rao Ambedkar emerged. An untouchable who was educated to the doctorate level in New York and London, Ambedkar called for the complete annihilation of caste. The culture of caste, he said, is "a four-storied building without a staircase." The ideas of another leader are also forgotten. Jawaharal Nehru preached Hindu secularism and called for a national government based upon truth and justice. He wrote: "There can be no equality of status and opportunity within the framework [of caste], nor can there be political democracy, and much less, economic democracy." His attempts to eliminate caste by forced economic development were ultimately a failure. Today, the government, the legal system and law enforcement represent the Hindu elite. Members of the lower castes cannot expect truth and justice from religious and racial bigots.

Statistics about India are staggering - slum and street dwellers account for one half of the main cities' population. This equates to 4.38 million people in Calcutta, 4.12 million in Bombay, 3.2 million in Delhi and 2.1 million in Madras. The top one percent of the people controls 14 percent of the wealth while the bottom fifty percent of the population accounts for seven percent of the monetary resources. In rural areas, only one out of a hundred girls who begin school will finish class twelve. Eighty percent of illnesses are caused by water-borne diseases. Out of 142 major cities, 72 have no sewage systems at all. In New Delhi, with a population of 9.4 million people, untreated wastewater, including 450 tons of solid waste, is dumped daily - directly into the Yumuna river. Unequal land distribution, social inequality, threats of disease, rampant illiteracy, alcoholism, and poverty seem like insurmountable problems when Democracy in India reveals the huge numbers of people affected by the problems.

The population of India is estimated to increase to one billion people by 2000 and 1.7 billion by 2025, but these projections are dependent upon changes in social policies that encourage education of females and improved health care vice sterilization. The government's sterilization efforts are viewed as anti-Hindu, particularly since Muslims may have several wives and many children.

This book brings the reader greater understanding about the institution of caste and how it causes social inequality. The economic health of India suffers because of the immense inequality. India's only hope is mass education, training and human resource development that reaches all of India's people, without regard to their caste, race, gender or religion. Until the population is educated, inequality will cause continued religious intolerance, racial and gender discrimination, and will result in further acts of violence. Although there is a slight editorial error (missing text between pages 133 and 135) in Democracy in India, the authors present a large amount of factual information and clearly interpret the information in the context of caste.

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