Christian Subversion And Missionary Activities - 3

[Guest]

<b>PRESS RELEASE</b>

Evil intention of foreign funded Organsations and Church establishments to get more funds is the main cause of disturbance in Kandhamal (Orissa)

New Delhi, January 08, 2008 -

A four-member delegation representing the Kandhmal (Orissa) tribals and other Hindus affected by the recent murderous Christian attacks met Her Excellency the President of India today and submitted a Memorandum that demanded that -

1. Government of India should check foreign funding to the NGOs and Church establishments and frame laws to scrutinize the activities of these organizations;

2. To protect all the rights and facilities provided to the SCs (Scheduled Castes) and STs (Scheduled Tribes) and to prevent others (non-SCs & non-STs including convertees) from taking away those facilities by fraud;

3. Duly check and audit their such income and expenditure profiles and seize and confiscate their accounts wherever those may be in existence;

4. ‘Propagation of Religion’ does not mean the ‘right to convert’. Therefore, all conversion activities, that undermine the holistic indigenous culture and religious traditions and work against the unity of the people by breeding disaffection amongst them and threaten the integrity of the country, must be banned;

5. To arrest, prosecute and punish those offenders and their accomplices who murdered an innocent person and made an attempt on the life of HH Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati and torched the houses of Hindus.

6. Let a Central Law be made to prohibit conversions by force, allurement and fraudulent means presently going on in Bharat.

7. Restrain those that converted to Christianity from being declared as ST.

Addressing a Press Conference, they said: "...The incidents that happened in Kandhamal district of Orissa were unfortunate. We are very much worried about the life and property of the minority Hindu community of Daringbadi block of Kandhamal district who were very much affected by the recent violence.

The most dangerous facts which comes out of the analysis of the incidents happened during this period indicates the aggressive attitude and evil design of the converted Pano Christans motivated by Church and other Christian Organisation like YMCA, World Vision, Phulbani, Jan Kalyan Sabha etc. You can better understand from the following instances:

1. Brahmanigaon :

Conflict started at Brahmanigaon on 20th December 2007 as the Church people with the local Christians constructed a huge gate covering the main road and a portion of the Durga Puja Mandap. When prevented by the local public on 23rd Christians started beating and even dishonor the peace meeting of the administration.

2. Attack on Swami Laxmananda Saraswatiji Maharaj:

Fatal attack on Swami Laxmananda Saraswatiji, his driver, security and his associates obstructing his vehicle on way to Bramhanigaon at Darsingbadi by a group of armed Christians on 24th December 2007

Barakhama killing of Khageswar Mallick

Christian women petted stones at the Hindus returning from a procession when an old tribal Khageswar Mallick fell down, he was brutally stoned to death on 24th evening.


When Bhikari Sethi a Vendor of Birikot village of Gajapati district was alone near Bramhanigon some Christians burnt him with kerosene. He is saved by the Police and other Hindu villagers and now undergoing treatment at M KC G Medical College hospital.

On 27th nearly 3000 Christians of nearby villages of Ganjam, Gajapati with the local Christians attacked the Bramhanigaon villagers with arms and ammunitions and also with the help of naxales. When the villagers fled away and surrendered at the police station, the Christians torched the whole village and attacked the police station. Exchange of fire continued for more than four hours. One police and the Gajapati S.P. who were there at that time were injured. One Christian was killed by the police firing.

A young Christian who was seriously injured in the fighting later found hiding in the Christian Sahi confessed the plan and program of the attackers before the S.P. which has been recorded.

The most important factor which has made the Kondh tribal most disturbed is the illegal demand of S.T. status to some converted Pano Christians who are deprived of S.C facilities due to their conversion by a planned conspiracy. Radhakant Nayak an Retd I A S now M.P Rajya Sabha, who is a converted Christian got SC facility stating himself as Hindu is charged as the main conspirator by the Kandha community.

A large number of Christians who are converted are getting SC facilities by false Caste certificates and some of them even got S.T. certificates and serving in various Government departments like Radhakant Nayank, John Nayak IPS retd, Isac Behera IAS retd and several others. A list of 130 such names has been submitted by Kandh organization to the State Government.

Christians have forcibly and illegally constructed houses, Churches and other Christian establishments on lands of tribals which they could not get back after Court order causing resentment amongst the tribal like Barakhama and Sukhananda and many other places (published in Samaj Oriya Daily dated 4-1-08)

Houses, shops and vehicles of Hindus are looted and burnt in many villages where Hindus are in minority.

During the whole incidents not a single Christian was attacked. Nearly 25 Hindus were injured by Christians at different places. Large quantity of Arms were seized from the Houses of Christians at Bramhanigaon.

Christians have beaten and threatened to kill in many villages where Hindus are in minority like Gadapur, Katingia, Tiarigaon etc which compelled the villagers to flee to the jungle or to a safer place. 95 families comprising 430 persons in Katingia and Tiarigaon of Bramahnigaon P.S are fled away to Merikot of Ganjam and several others are in the jungles.

Knowing that Government will provide them with Indira Awas Christians themselves burnt the houses. Similarly church institutions torched their so-called Jhopadi churches to get foreign aid and leveled blame on nearby Hindu community. Several such instances were reported false by courts in the previous years. Now it has been also supported by the Statement of D.G. Police (Published in the Indian Express on 5-1-2008)

All India Christian Forum leader John Dayal has admitted that Christians have attacked Bramahanigaon village and involved in the violence.

From the above facts one can easily understand the poor innocent Christians of such remote areas could not have done such things in a planned way without the support of any big foreign funding organization. There is hidden hand of world vision, YMCA, NISWASS etc and Church organization behind such incidents.



The evil intention of these foreign funded organization and Institutions are to create social disharmony and conflict by which they will get more foreign fund and tarnish the image of the Nation.



Therefore we demand

1) Govt of India should check foreign funding to the NGOs and Church establishments and frame laws to scrutinize the activities of these organizations.

2) To protect all the rights and facilities provided to the SCs & STs and to prevent others (non SC & ST) from taking away those facilities by fraud..."



- Released by
Gauri Prasad Rath, General Secretary VHP-Orissa &
Dr Laxmi Kant Dash, General Secretary, Vanavasi Kalyan Ashram-Orissa
from Delhi Camp

<b>Converted Christian’s effort to grab ST status in Orissa’s Kandhamal results in bloody clashes: Attack on Swami Laxmanananda aggravates the situation </b>

Phulbani (Orissa):-Kandhamal district is once again in news. The district – which is very often proudly claimed as Orissa's Kashmir – witnessed clashes between two local communities – the tribal Kondh predominantly Hindus and Panas mostly converted to Christianity.

<b>The Projection of the incident in Media </b>

A section depicted it as communal clash and squarely blamed the Hindus for the three days of violence.

The clashes between the two groups which began on the Christmas eve, threw normal life out of gear at places like Brahmanigoan, Barkhama, Baliguda, Tikabali, Daringibadi, Phulbani and few other places and compelled the government to impose curfew at several towns in the district.


Many media, mostly the national and international, – without a reality check – went overdrive to paint a wrong picture about the entire sequence of events. Very few investigated the reasons of the violence put the blame squarely on the Hindus. Only burning of churches and prayer houses were reported, not the lethal attack on the Hindu seer Laxmananda Saraswati found due place in the newspapers. Nor the death of a Hindu – which was immediate provocation for the communal clash – was properly highlighted. Even Maoists joining hands with Christians in attacking tribals was ignored by the international and national media.

However the vernacular press predominantly reflected what actually happened on the ground and found Christians being the initiator of the latest hostility between the communities. The followers of Christ faith were in the forefront of attack and they attacked Hindu hamlets and attacked the police and even collaborated with Maoists in attacking the kondh tribals, they reported.

<b>Starting of the trouble </b>

The trouble started on the eve of the eve of Christsmas Day. On December 23, the converted Christians at Brahmanigoan wanted to erect a gate near the place of a Hindu deity to celebrate the Christmas. This was resented by the local Hindus. They asked the Christians why they were insisting to build the second gate near their place of worship when they had already erected one where they normally use to erect their Christmas gate. This led to heated exchange of words between members of the two communities. Two Hindu youths were severely beaten up and injured by the Christians.

As this news reached to Swami Laxmanananda Saraswati, a selfless Hindu seer – working for the socio-economic development of the local people for over four decades, he set out for Brahmanigoan on December 24. While he was on his way, he was surrounded by the Christians and attacked with sharp weapons. The seer and two of his fellow travelers sustained serious injuries. With Swamiji’s drivers prompt action and fleding away with vehicle, life of Swamiji was saved.

The news of attack on the seer and his disciples spread like a wildfire and shocked his innumerable supporters in the district. What followed was the emotional outburst of Swamiji’s followers created over a period of four decade long service to the people, their development and religious awakening.

Both the sides indulged in clashes at several places – damaging life and property on both the sides. Strangely, many national and international media presented one-sided story, - they did not see how the Hindus were dragged out of their houses, beaten up and hacked to death. They only saw churches and listened what the Christian leaders spoke. The world was fed with wrong information.

<b>The social issues that affects peace very often in Phulbani</b>

The problem that has often led to clashes in the district – in reality – is more of social character than religious. The Kondh, native tribal community constitute the overwhelming majority of the district. Pans originally a Scheduled Caste group in majority have been converted to Christianity.

Kui – the mother tongue of the Kondhs is the principal language of the district. The sizable Christian Panas speak Kui, the tribal dialect.

Christian Panas have been demanding scheduled tribe (ST) status. They contend that since they speak Kui and their lifestyle and socio-economic conditions are similar with the Kondhs, they should be considered as scheduled tribe.

The Panas claim they received a shot in the arm when the J.B. Patnaik government in 1982 recommended the Centre to recognize the Kuis as STs. But Kui is a language and not the name of any tribe. The state government recommendation got the President's assent in 2002. But it may be clarified that Presidential proclamation talked of Kui to be included in ST category. The Govt. of Orissa refused ST status to Kui speaking converted people as the Record of Rights of that section of Kui speaking people are named as Panas belonging to Schedule Caste category.

<b>Court has intervened </b>

This was challenged by the Christian Panas in Orissa High Court. They filed a writ petition in the HC seeking passing of an order in favour of their demand.

The HC in its directive asked the state government to take appropriate decision in the light of Presidential proclamation. The legal battle went on and finally the Court asked the Govt. to take a decision.

<b>The Govt declines</b>

However, the state government submitted that since the Record of Rights of the Panas did not mention the Panas belonging to Tribe category, their demand for the said status could not be met. “This demand is not based on historical and anthropological facts”, Orissa Government time and again has maintained.

The dropped steel and mines minister Padmanabh Behera, who belongs to Pana community –was apparently sympathetic the demand ST status to his fellow people. The Kondhs say Mr Behera was utilizing the state machinery to repress them when the opposed to the Pana's ST status demand. Going by demand of Kondhas for removal of Mr. Behera from the ministry, it was apparently Chief Minister Naven Patnaik wanted Mr. Behera to resign to buy peace from angry Kondhs of the district.

<b>Rangnath Mishra commission recommendations adds fuel to the fire </b>

Justice Ranganth Commission, that recommended facility of reservation to be extended to the converted dalit people, the ST and SC people are apprehensive of their rights being curtailed and grabed by converted people who at the present law not eligible to get reservation facility.

<b>R. K. Naik, the villain </b>

Behind the social tension, conflict, disorder and bloody battle there is hand of a former bureaucrat a native of Kandhamal district <b>Mr. Radhakant Naik now a Congress MP</b>. He patronized missionary activities and conversion alienating sizable section of the society from their culture and tradition.

It may be noted that <b>Mr. Naik a converted Christian had got into Indian Administrative service in Scheduled Caste quota, which he is not entitled to as per Indian constitution</b>.

Now close to Congress President Sonia Gandhi, who generously made him member of Rajya Sabha from Orissa, alleged Swami Laxmananda as man behind attack on him on Christmas eve. Attack on Swamiji had taken place in the native village of Mr. Naik in Dasingibadi, considered as stronghold of Christian’s activity.

Founder of Phulbani Kui Jankalyan Sangh, he leads the movement for arranging ST status for Christian Panas, the group to which he himself belongs.

<b>Ban on conversion </b>

A VHP delegation which included retired Judge of Orissa High Court Justice M. Papanna, educationist Dr. Ratnakar Chaini, VHP state President Bipin Bihari Ratha wanted the Chief Minister to ban on conversion as they opined it as the root of all problems in tribal regions of the state. Atleast they demanded strict implementation of Orissa Freedom of Religion Act (OFRA) – 1967 that prescribes stringent provisions for conversion from one religion to another.

While the VHP delegation welcomed Judicial commission set up to enquire into the communal disturbances in Kandhamal wanted Z category security for Swami Laxmananda in view of threat on his life. It may be noted that Swamiji has been attacked 9 times so far lethally.

They also demanded setting up of a commission to scrutinize and enquire into flow of foreign funs to the Christian missionaries and their utilization.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Truth about Kandhamal </b>
Pioneer.com
Media has distorted the facts about the clashes between tribals and missionaries in this Orissa district. Ashok Sahu tells the real story of what happened and why it happened

<b>Reports of clashes between 'converted' Christians led by missionaries on one hand and tribals on the other in Kandhamal district of Orissa that have been highlighted by media since December 25, 2007,</b> are vastly distorted and motivated. These reports need to be clarified in public interest lest our national image is tarnished before the people and the international community.

The whole series of incidents began with the unprovoked and pre-planned attack on Vedanta Keshari Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati who was visiting his disciples at Darsingbadi village in Kandhmal district on December 24. The 82-year-old Swami has been working tirelessly in the district since 1967 for the welfare of the local population.

More than 75 per cent people in Kandhamal live below the poverty line and are not literate. Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati has opened schools, hostels, hospitals and temples to protect mainly the tribals and the downtrodden from the clutches of missionaries who have access to massive funds from foreign countries. A lot of this money is also provided to so-called non-government organisations whose covert agenda is to convert local tribals to Christianity.

<b>World Vision is one such NGO operating in this district. It is patronised by Mr Radhakanta Nayak, a resident of Darsingbadi village from 'Pana' community. He later converted to Christianity</b>. He was an employee of the Orissa Government and was promoted to the IAS before he retired from service. He is now a Member of the Rajya Sabha. The assailants who attacked Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati on December 24 are believed to be his henchmen.

The 'Kui' tribals among the Kandhs in the district have been protesting against Mr Nayak's attempt to get his 'Pana' community relisted as a Scheduled Tribe. For some time now, Mr Nayak has been trying to get a notification issued under the provisions of the Constitution to get his Pana community, at present designated a Scheduled Caste, relisted as a Scheduled Tribe along with the Kui on the ground that the former also speak the Kui dialect.

<b>Various reservation facilities to which Scheduled Tribes are entitled are not available to Scheduled Castes if their members convert to Christianity.</b> On hearing about the attack on Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati, the already agitated Kui community reacted with anger and protested throughout the district against those members of the 'Pana' community who had converted to Christianity.

<b>Interestingly, most Maoist activists in the district are among the recent converts to Christianity. Security forces are believed to have seized 20 guns from 47 Maoists arrested in connection with the recent burning of villages inhabited by Hindus (Brahmanigaon, Jhinjiriguda, Katingia and Godapur) to counter the attacks by tribals on Christians and Churches</b>.

It is evident that the Maoists and the missionaries are hand-in-glove with each other to instigate clashes between the Kui tribals and the Pana community. A similar pattern exists in Karbi-Anglong and North Cachar Hills districts in Asam where insurgents are working in tandem with missionaries.
While in Government service, Mr Radhakanta Nayak and Mr John Nayak, a retired IPS officer -- both 'converted' Christians -- were instruments of the Church to proselytise poor and illiterate members of the 'Pana' and tribal communities in Kandhamal district.

In the guise of funding NGOs, thousands of dollars are being pumped into the country for converting tribals to Christianity in Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Andhra Pradesh and the North-East. The missionaries and their cohorts take advantage of the poverty and lack of education; thousands of people have been converted to Christianity through these means.

<b>In the North-East, many of them are being trained for separatist movements. In States like Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh, Madhya Pradesh, Orissa, Andhra Pradesh, many of them are being trained for Maoist insurgency</b>.

Conversions have been more pronounced since 1970, which is evident from the Census reports till 2001.<b> In Kandhamal district, for instance, the Christian population has increased from six per cent in 1971 to 27 per cent in 2001</b>, despite a law enacted by the Orissa Legislature in 1967 to prevent conversion by allurement, coercion, bribery and cheating.

Swami Lakshmanananda has been fighting a lone battle against such conversions and has made the tribal dominated district his home for the last 40 years. Those behind the conversions have been targeting him.

Earlier, there were two deadly attacks on Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati in 1971 and 1995. Since then, the Government has provided his with armed protection. But despite that, armed men attacked him on December 24. Swami Lakshmanananda Saraswati, his driver and armed guards were seriously injured in the attack and were hospitalised in Cuttack Medical College Hospital.

Hence, the recent clashes manifest the various ramifications of the socio-economic, political and cultural issues, as well as the deep-rooted conspiracy by missionaries and Maoists to destabilise our society. Let the national media stop distorting facts.

-- The writer is a former Inspector General of Police, Orissa. <!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

[acharya]

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/071006

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-thayilv+Jan 11 2008, 05:26 AM-->QUOTE(thayilv @ Jan 11 2008, 05:26 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Does anyone know why they are seeking to destablish the Church? What does that mean for the Church? Less power/influence?
[right][snapback]77015[/snapback][/right]
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Just the "Church of England" not the "OtherChurch". Less power to the former and more power to the latter??

http://www.thuto.org/ubh/whist/chhist/ce-est1.htm

[acharya]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2002/s...26.html?start=3

Law Could Curb Foreign Donations To Churches, Indian ChristiansWorry Stringent legislation is aimed at cutting off terrorist funding, but could hurt non-government organizations. (Nov. 9, 2001)

Christians Encouraged as 50,000 Dalits Leave HinduismLow-caste Hindus see conversion as their only escape from oppression. (October 11, 2001)

India's First Dalit Archbishop Holds 'No Grudge' Over Predecessor's AttackOnce "untouchable" Dalits make up bulk of country's Christians. (May, 11, 2001)

Plans to Resolve India's Interfaith Tensions Face Delays and AccusationsDid India's National Commission for Minorities plan a meeting to discredit Christians? (July 20, 2000)

Foes Claim BJP is Using Arms Training to Win Crucial Election in IndiaFears mount that reason for camps is to galvanize support for temple construction. (June 29, 2001)

Bomb Explosion During Mass Stirs Fear, Public Outcry in BangladeshSuspects linked to rash of attacks. (June 25, 2001)

India Election Results Rattle Ruling NationalistsHindu BJP "getting irrelevant day by day" say rivals. (June 13, 2001)

Despite Tensions, Indian Churches Agree to Talks With Hindu GroupsMainline churches will join talks, but other Christians say "partisan" meeting is dangerous. (Apr. 11, 2001)

India Relief Abuses RampantRadical Hindus hijack supplies in quake intervention. (Mar. 20, 2001)

In Orissa, You Must Ask the Government If You Want to Change ReligionChristian church leaders say they're trying to ignore the controversial law, but police aren't doing the same. (Mar. 12, 2001)

Churches Angry that Indian Census Ignores 14 Million Christian DalitsOnly Hindu, Sikh, and Buddhist members of "untouchable" caste being counted. (Mar. 2, 2001)

India's Christians Face Continued ThreatsWe must preach what we believe in spite of Hindu pressure, says Operation Mobilization India leader. (Feb. 15, 2001)

[acharya]

http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctlivebl...rting_bobb.html


Converting Bobby Jindal

Does Louisiana's new Catholic governor spell hope for his Hindu homeland?

Brad Greenberg

The Times-Picayune had a lengthy profile last week of Louisiana's new Gov. Bobby Jindal that focused on the India native's conversion to Catholicism and the role that has played in his political ascent.

When Gov.-elect Bobby Jindal converted to Catholicism during high school and college, he took a momentous step away from his inherited faith of Hinduism, the prevalent religion of his parents' generation and Indian homeland.

But among Jindal's relatives and among Hindus in India generally, his decision to adopt the Christian way is strongly supported.

Jindal's personal path to Christianity, which had politically significant ramifications for Louisiana, was aided by an open-minded attitude among his relatives about theology. Also, he visited India infrequently as a child, giving him little chance to acquire the deeply ingrained appreciation for Hindu culture that comes from exposure to daily life in that country.

[acharya]

Speaking Out
India's Burning Issue
Conversions in Orissa—and the violent reaction against them—highlight tension in India's not-so-dead caste system.
Joseph D'Souza | posted 1/10/2008 08:54AM
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/j...y/102-42.0.html

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On Christmas Eve, violence broke out against Christians in the Kandhamal district of the eastern Indian state of Orissa, which has become well known for poor governance and class tensions. Hindu fundamentalist groups led by the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP, the World Hindu Council) have attacked Christians and their institutions at will in rural areas. Over 90 churches and Christian institutions have been burned and vandalized, over 700 Christian homes destroyed, and the number of pastors and Christians killed is yet to be known, according to a report by my colleagues in the All India Christian Council. A pastor in Chennai told me that 11 pastors have been killed and thousands of Dalit (formerly known as untouchable) Christians displaced. Compass Direct reports that the death count is at 9. Many people are missing, and others have vanished in the nearby forests.

[Shambhu]

<span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Unholy ways of Holy Missionaries </span> <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo-->

By: U. Mahesh Prabhu
1/14/2008 1:57:53 PM
Author's Home Page
Views expressed here are author"s own and not of this website. Full disclaimer is at the bottom.

(The author is the Editor-in-Chief of Aseemaa: Journal for National Resurgence.)


On December 25th when the whole world was celebrating the birth of the Jesus Christ, churches were burning in Gujarat. As per confirmed estimates 11 churches had been burnt. On December 27th Religious leaders in the national capital expressed their anguish over the continuing attacks on the churches in Orissa, saying violence in any form in unacceptable. But something that which really bothered me was one of the statements, by Swami Shantatmanand – Secretary of Ramakrishna Mission in New Delhi – published in Indian Express that which read ‘Hinduism teaches us to respect and acknowledge the validity of all other religion.’ I am yet to understand as to why was he saying so? Or what made him to make that statement? Is he trying to portray that some Hindus had done those deeds? But how can you say without investigation is complete and report is out?

Reports do say that the attacks on Churches had begun on Christmas after assault on a VHP leader and until today 11 Churches and prayer houses were ransacked and torched by ‘suspected saffron activists’ in several areas of Kandhamal districts in Orissa. But who attacked the VHP leader? It isn’t clear. Overall for many people the situation may just look, as if, ‘VHP people had attacked in response to the assault on their leader’. That’s simply not it. But, there is more to it.

Recently I happened to read Edward Gibbons ‘Decline and Fall of Roman Empire’. In the book he makes observation on early Christians and their tactics for conversion. Here he quotes a Roman proconsul who wrote that Christians have a very effective method of getting noticed and portraying themselves as ‘Victims’ in order to advance their cause. Whenever, a minute transgression or even an attempt is made to implement law against them they make such a fuss and in such a rowdy manner that one would think that a ‘great injustice’ had been committed to them.

Christianity does not have a notable reputation for tolerance and respect for other religions. ‘The Christian need to convert the entire world’ has been an historical obsession that continues in major Christian fundamentalist groups even today, both Protestant and Catholic. The Christian Missionary’s failure to honor other religions, particularly non-biblical traditions, is well known, with Christians still denigrating the sophisticated yogic traditions of Asia as mere superstition, idolatry and polytheism. Christian missionaries have had a reputation for using methods to promote conversion that are not always honest, including employing military and political force during the colonial era. Their targeting of the poor and illiterate for conversion shows that they don’t like open debates in the light of the day. Yet Christians like to ignore such inconvenient facts while posing as peaceful people concerned with human welfare, not with conversion. They are surprised if members of other religion are suspicious of them, even if they look at these religions and condemn them as works of the Devil. They feel easily hurt and insulted should anyone question their motives.

In the modern secular world, Christians along with Muslims, now demand conversion as a democratic right, even though their religion is authoritarian, and not democratic, accepting only one way, and not honoring pluralism in approaching the Divine. They offer no freedom of choice about the ‘savior’ or the book or the creed that can bring salvation and there is little tolerance for those who choose another way outside their faith. Europe had to reject the church and Christian dogma in order to become democratic over the past several centuries, considering this; Christian churches are the last people on earth who should be talking about ‘democratic rights’. It is merely a smokescreen for promoting their own agendas, spreading their authoritarian and exclusivist beliefs, recklessly eliminating other cultures and religions along the way.

Years before there were serial church bombings in South India. It proved that the charges made by Christian leaders against Hindu organizations for the bombings were unfounded, if not malicious. However instead of admitting their mistake Christian leaders and organizations started a propaganda campaign, again blaming the Hindu organizations for ‘creating an atmosphere’ that led to these crimes! The arrests in this regard, in Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, had shown that Deendal Anjuman, a Muslim organization led by a Pakistani National was behind most of the bomb blasts and attacks on Christian groups in South India. The Christian response has been to ignore or deny the report, though it is quite well documented and occurred in states of Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, not ruled by the so called ‘Hindu BJP’. For further details, I suggest you to, read ‘Church Blasts: Truth and Propaganda’ by S Y Seshagiri Rao.

Christians in India, who exaggerate such minor incidents into a National or International anti-Hindu propaganda, somehow never speak of the fact that ‘More churches have been burnt in America in recent years than in India. Several dozen black American churches were burnt to the ground. Christian priests and ministers are also robbed, assaulted and sometimes killed in all Western countries in numbers not unlike what occurs in India. We should note that many more priests in America have been arrested for sexual molestation of children than have priests been assaulted in India. Should we use that to make conclusions about the nature of Christianity?

Did you know the fact that many more pagans were killed by Christians, and thousands of pagan temples were destroyed throughout Europe? The great Greek (Neo Platonic) Academy in Alexandria was destroyed and its scholars like Hypatia killed by Cyril – ‘Saint Cyril’. The number of Native Americans killed or forcibly converted by Catholics was also in the many millions, and yet the Catholics emphasize a few priests martyred by Native Americans as being the real victims. Such and more are stories of ‘Christian Oppression’.

Hinduism is a religion of openness. We appreciate all gods and deities. We have never said that we are the ‘only way’ like many of the Semitic faiths. We have no problems acknowledging greatness of Allah, Jehovah or Jesus. We have done that many a times. Didn’t we? But Christian missionaries have, instead, used it as a pretext to promote Christian superiority, not to reciprocate with honoring Hinduism and its sages and yogis. They say Christ must be great because Hindus honor him. They don’t honor Hindu teachers in return. The hypocrisy of the whole thing is easy to see. It shows the condescending attitude towards Hindus, thinking that they can bully them or appeal to their tolerance by a feigned persecution. It wholly proves that Christians Missionaries are still promoting a medieval religion that will not honor other religions and is still seeking world domination by any means fair or foul. If we count the victims of Christian aggression on one side and the Christian themselves who have been victimized we will find that the victims of Christianity are overwhelming in the majority. While some Christians have apologized to African and Native American groups for such missionary misdeeds, the Hindus have so far not received any such apology, though they have suffered from the same methods. The reason is that the missionaries have not yet triumphed in India. The apology, like crocodile tears, comes only after the victim is dead.

I would trust those missionaries only if they say that Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism and other Indian religions are as good as Christianity. Let Christians say clearly that members of other religions will not go to hell but will gain immortality in the presence of God by following what is good in their own teachings.

Writes David Frawley ‘As a former Catholic I know in what little esteem the Church holds Hinduism and Buddhism with all their great sages and yogis. Christianity, like Islam, sees tolerance not as a virtue to be emulated but as a weakness to be exploited. Were Christians really to honor Hinduism as a valid religion all Hindu-Christian hostility could easily come to an end. As long as Christians hold that their alone is the True Faith and are working to convert the members of other religion in one way or another, they should not be surprised if members of other religions do not welcome their presence.’ In his book ‘The Missionary Ploy.’

It is only a matter of time before Missionary Christianity is seen for what is imperialism in the name of God and Christ, the proverbial wolf in the sheep’s clothing. It is a political, worldly movement with little spirituality in it. Unfortunately such Christians confuse the real Divine work, which is improving us through introspection, with the institutional work of imposing a single belief upon all humanity. This political view of religion has no place in global age of consciousness that is dawning in enlightened minds all over the world today. The quicker it comes to an end, the better it will be for all of humanity.

http://www.blogs.ivarta.com/india-usa-blog-column65.htm

[Shambhu]

Something that we need to note:

In one of his speeches in the past 2-3 days, Huckabee said he would re-write the Constitution to make it more Biblical if he became President. Leading up to that statement, he said it is "better to change the word of man to suit the word of God, than vice versa", or words to that effect. Suit-bootwalla bigots were cheering him.

B@stards have invented a "God" and are doing their best to impose this "God" on everyone. Over compensation for lack of genuine spirituality. Happens everytime. Less spiritual your "religion", more the force you use to impose it upon people.

Islam currently takes the (halal) cake on this...

[acharya]

Read this understand why Huckabee is popular

Download link

http://candst.tripod.com/1888.htm
Church and State in the United States

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
The American Idea of Religious Freedom

This essay, a defense of separation of church and state, was written in 1888 by Philip Schaff, a Christian historian and theological scholar thought by some to have been the most learned Protestant Theologian and scholar who taught, wrote, etc. in America in the nineteenth century. The essay also presents a glimpse of how 19th century America defined the relationship between religious liberty and civil governments.

Schaff wrote Church and State in the United States (1888) for the American Historical Society.

Researched and edited by Jim Allison

WHAT is the distinctive character of American Christianity in its organized social aspect and its relation to the national life, as compared with the Christianity of Europe?

It is a free church in a free state, or a self-supporting and self-governing Christianity in independent but friendly relation to the civil government.

This relationship of church and state marks an epoch. It is a new chapter in the history, of Christianity, and the most important one which America has so far contributed. It lies at the base of our religious institutions and operations, and they cannot be understood without it. . . .

The relationship of church and state in the United States secures full liberty of religious thought, speech, and action, within the limits of the public peace and order. It makes persecution impossible.

Religion and liberty are inseparable. Religion is voluntary, and cannot and ought not to be forced.

This is a fundamental article of the American creed, without distinction of sect or party. Liberty, both civil and religious, is an American instinct. All natives suck it in with the mother's milk; all immigrants accept it as a happy boon, especially those who flee from oppression and persecution abroad. Even those who reject the modern theory of liberty enjoy the practice, and would defend it in their own interest against any attempt to overthrow it.

Such liberty is impossible on the basis of a union of church and state, where the one of necessity restricts or controls the other. It requires a friendly separation, where each power is entirely independent in its own sphere. The church, as such, has nothing to do with the state except to obey its laws and to strengthen its moral foundations; the state has nothing to do with the church except to protect her in her property and liberty; and the state must be equally just to all forms of belief and unbelief which do not endanger the public safety.

The family, the church, and the state are divine institutions demanding alike our obedience, in their proper sphere of jurisdiction. The family is the oldest institution, and the source of church and state. The patriarchs were priests and kings of their households. Church and state are equally necessary, and as inseparable as soul and body, and yet as distinct as soul and body. The church is instituted for the religious interests and eternal welfare of man; the state for his secular interests and temporal welfare. The one looks to heaven as the final home of immortal spirits, the other upon our mother earth. The church is the reign of love; the state is the reign of justice. The former is governed by the gospel, the latter by the law. The church exhorts, and uses moral suasion; the state commands, and enforces obedience. The church punishes by rebuke, suspension, and excommunication; the state by fines, imprisonment, and death. Both meet on questions of public morals, and both together constitute civilized human Society and ensure its prosperity.

The root of this theory we find in the New Testament.

In the ancient world religion and politics were blended. Among the Jews religion ruled the state, which was a theocracy. Among the heathen the state ruled religion; the Roman emperor was the supreme pontiff (pontifex maximus), the gods were national, and the priests were servants of the state.
Christianity had at first no official connection with the state. . . .

For three hundred years the Christian church kept aloof from politics, and, while obeying the civil laws and paying tribute, maintained at the same time the higher law of conscience in refusing to comply with idolatrous customs and in professing the faith in the face of death. The early Apologists-Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Lactantius -- boldly claimed the freedom of religion as a natural right.

THE AMERICAN SYSTEM COMPARED WITH OTHER SYSTEMS.

The American relationship of church and state differs from all previous relationships in Europe and in the colonial period of our history; and yet it rests upon them and reaps the benefit of them all. For history is an organic unit, and American history has its roots in Europe.

1. The American system differs from the ante-Nicene or pre-Constantinian separation of church and state, when the church was indeed, as with us, self-supporting and self-governing, and so far free within, but under persecution from without, being treated as a forbidden religion by the then heathen state. In America the government protects the church in her property and rights without interfering with her internal affairs. By the power of truth and the moral heroism of martyrdom the church converted the Roman Empire and became the mother of Christian states.

2. The American system differs from the hierarchical control of the church over the state, or from priest government, which prevailed in the Middle Ages down to the Reformation, and reached its culmination in the Papacy. It confines the church to her proper spiritual vocation, and leaves the state independent in all the temporal affairs of the nation. The hierarchical theory was suited to the times after the fall of the Roman Empire and the ancient civilization, when the state was a rude military despotism, when the church was the refuge of the people, when the Christian priesthood was in sole possession of learning and had to civilize as well as to evangelize the barbarians of northern and western Europe. By her influence over legislation the church abolished bad laws and customs, introduced benevolent institutions, and created a Christian state controlled by the spirit of justice and humanity, and fit for self-government.

3. The American system differs from the Erastian or C saro-Papal control of the state over the church, which obtained in the old Byzantine Empire, and prevails in modern Russia, and in the Protestant states of Europe, where the civil government protects and supports the church, but at the expense of her dignity and independence, and deprives her of the power of self-government. The Erastian system was based on the assumption that all citizens are also Christians of one creed, but is abnormal in the mixed character of government and people in the modern state. In America, the state has no right whatever to interfere with the affairs of the church, her doctrine, discipline, and worship, and the appointment of ministers. It would be a great calamity if religion were to become subject to our ever-changing politics.

4. The American system differs from the system of toleration, which began in Germany with the Westphalia Treaty, 1648; in England with the Act of Toleration, 1689, and which now prevails over nearly all Europe; of late years, nominally at least, even in Roman Catholic countries, to the very gates of the Vatican, in spite of the protest of the Pope. Toleration exists where the government supports one or more churches, and permits other religious communities under the name of sects (as on the continent), or dissenters and nonconformists (as in England), under certain conditions. In America there are no such distinctions, but only churches or denominations on a footing of perfect equality before the law. To talk about any particular denomination as the church, or the American church, has no meaning, and betrays ignorance or conceit. Such exclusiveness is natural and logical in Romanism, but unnatural, illogical, and contemptible in any other church. The American laws know no such institution as "the church," but only separate and independent organizations.

Toleration is an important step from state-churchism to free-churchism. But it is only a step. There is a very great difference between toleration and liberty. Toleration is a concession, which may be withdrawn; it implies a preference for the ruling form of faith and worship, and a practical disapproval of all other forms. It may be coupled with many restrictions and disabilities. We tolerate what we dislike but cannot alter; we tolerate even a nuisance, if we must. Acts of toleration are wrung from a government by the force of circumstances and the power of a minority too influential to be disregarded.

In our country we ask no toleration for religion and its free exercise, but we claim it as an inalienable right. "It is not toleration," says Judge Cooley, "which is established in our system, but religious equality." Freedom of religion is one of the greatest gifts of God to man, without distinction of race and color. He is the author and lord of conscience, and no power on earth has a right to stand between God and the conscience. A violation of this divine law written in the heart is an assault upon the majesty of God and the image of God in man. Granting the freedom of conscience, we must, by logical necessity, also grant the freedom of its manifestation and exercise in public worship. To concede the first and to deny the second, after the manner of despotic governments, is to imprison the conscience. To be just, the state must either support all or none of the religions of its citizens. Our government supports none, but protects all.

5. Finally-and this we would emphasize as especially important in our time,-the American system differs radically and fundamentally from the infidel and red-republican theory of religious freedom. The word freedom is one of the most abused words in the vocabulary. True liberty, is a positive force, regulated by law; false liberty is a negative force, a release from restraint. True liberty is the moral power of self-government; the liberty of infidels and anarchists is carnal licentiousness. The American separation of church and state rests on respect for the church; the infidel separation, on indifference and hatred of the church, and of religion itself.

The infidel theory was tried and failed in the first Revolution of France. It began with toleration, and ended with the abolition of Christianity, and with the reign of terror, which in turn prepared the way for military despotism as the only means of saving society from anarchy and ruin. Our infidels and anarchists would reenact this tragedy if they should ever get the power. They openly profess their hatred and contempt of our Sunday-laws, our Sabbaths, our churches, and all our religious institutions and societies. Let us beware of them! The American system grants freedom also to irreligion and infidelity, but only within the limits of the order and safety of society. The destruction of religion would be the destruction of morality and the ruin of the state. Civil liberty requires for its support religious liberty, and cannot prosper without it. Religious liberty is not an empty Sound, but an orderly exercise of religious duties and enjoyment of all its privileges. It is freedom in religion, not freedom from religion; as true civil liberty is freedom in law, and not freedom from law. Says Goethe:

    "In der Beschr nkung erst zeigt sich der Meister,
    Und das Gesetz nur kann dir Freiheit geben."

Republican institutions in the hands of a virtuous and God-fearing nation are the very best in the world, but in the hands of a corrupt and irreligious people they are the very worst, and the most effective weapons of destruction. An indignant people may rise in rebellion against a cruel tyrant; but who will rise against the tyranny of the people in possession of the ballot-box and the whole machinery of government? Here lies our great danger, and it is increasing every year.

Destroy our churches, close our Sunday-schools, abolish the Lord's Day, and our republic would become an empty shell, and our people would tend to heathenism and barbarism. Christianity is the most powerful factor in our society and the pillar of our institutions. It regulates the family; it enjoins private and public virtue; it builds up moral character; it teaches us to
love God supremely, and our neighbor as ourselves; it makes good men and useful citizens; it denounces every vice; it encourages every virtue; it promotes and serves the public welfare; it upholds peace and order. Christianity is the only possible religion for the American people, and with Christianity are bound up all our hopes for the future.

This was strongly felt by Washington, the father of his country, first in war, first in peace, and first in the hearts of his countrymen"; and no passage in his immortal Farewell Address is more truthful, wise, and worthy of constant remembrance by every American statesman and citizen than that in which he affirms the inseparable connection of religion with morality and national prosperity.

Source of Information:

"The American Idea of Religious Freedom", by Philip Schaff. http://www.xmission.com/~gastown/revival/religfre.txt
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[Shambhu]

<!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo--> I think the Church should punish this Archbishop. I mean, women? Women? Why? Every respectable bishop and priest has preferred boys. And this self-serving b@stard goes puts that grand tradition down the drain by having eight extramarital coerced affairs with women. Is there no sense of decency (or pedophiliocity) left?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080116/ap_on_...acher_paternity

ATLANTA - The 80-year-old leader of a megachurch pleaded guilty Wednesday to lying under oath about his sexual affairs and was sentenced to 10 years' probation. Archbishop Earl Paulk, who has been in ill health, was also fined $1,000 on a single felony count.

The charges stem from a 2006 deposition Paulk gave in a lawsuit against him, his brother Don and the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit at Chapel Hill Harvester Church by former church employee Mona Brewer, who said she was coerced into an affair.

In the deposition, Earl Paulk said under oath that the only woman with whom he had ever had sex outside his marriage was Brewer. But the results of a court-ordered paternity test revealed in October that Paulk is the biological father of his brother's son, D.E. Paulk, who is now head pastor at the church.

As part of Brewer's lawsuit, eight women have given sworn depositions that they were coerced into sexual relationships with Earl Paulk.

"It was a fair and just resolution of the case for a man who has lived his whole life and done wonderful things but made a mistake," said Earl Paulk's attorney, Joel Pugh. "He's ready to move on."

Paulk turned himself in to authorities Tuesday night after a warrant was issued for his arrest the previous day. The warrant was the result of a months-long probe by Cobb County District Attorney Pat Head and the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Head called the sentence "certainly adequate" for Paulk, who had never been charged criminally before.

Paulk could have been sentenced to as many as 10 years in prison. Cox said the sentence was not unusual for someone like Paulk, who has no prior record and whose health is "frail."

Paulk has been in bad health for the past couple of years after a battle with cancer, limiting his activity with the independent charismatic church he and his brother founded in 1960.

At its peak in the early 1990s, the Cathedral at Chapel Hill claimed about 10,000 members and 24 pastors and was a media powerhouse. The church was able to build a Bible college, two schools, a worldwide TV ministry and a $12 million sanctuary outside Atlanta.

Today, membership is down to about 1,500; the church has 18 pastors, most of them volunteers; and the Bible college and TV ministry have closed — a downturn blamed largely on fallout from the sex scandals.

Back to top

[acharya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dT8_Tl7krw

[Guest]

Acharya: What's the point of that youtube link?
The attack on Hindu seers, including the one in Orissa last month, how come we don't see them on Youtube? Unless it's pretty well choregraphed.

[acharya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yb8y1W-BVCk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwMCzG15lYU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7MRjXcy-Jg

[acharya]

http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/holyganga...elping-hinduism

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>
Is Christian-aggression helping Hinduism?</b>
Posted January 14th, 2008 by HolyGanga

I have always said in discussions on various forums that today nothing is helping Hinduism more than Christian aggression and pseudo-secularist policies of this country. Things happening today are like painful surgeries which will improve health of Hinduism in long term.

I always try to see the other side of the story...the long term conseq.

we and they, both should be clear that Hinduism , a religion which is older than history is not a joke but has a very strong foundation. Those Hindus who think Hinduism is in danger or those christian strategic teams who think that they can eliminate Hinduism like african tribes...both are fools in my eyes. Both dont understand the inbuilt character and absorbing power of Hinduism, both dont undertsand that how Hinduism loves to emerge under bad conditions. Infact Hinduism loves to shine with full glory only when attackers attack it with full strength. eg, when Islamists were breaking the temples of north India and crushing Hindus, Bhakti movement in north India started to spread like a wildfire which has changed face of Hinduism forever.

Tirumala today has become a "Hindu vatican" through an ordinance by govt....why? Just because of Christian aggression. Thanks to that! All different sects are today coming on common platform, Dalits are gaining entries into major temples one after another. All this is a response to aggression against Hinduism. Today Unorganised Hinduism is taking the shape like an organised Islam with every passing day.

Tirumala now has emerged as a place with most religious pilgrims in the world, richest religious shrine, Hindu religious tourism in places like Vaishno devi, mathura, Varanasi etc. has broken all previous records.

Hindu religious channels have TRP's which can compete with entertainment channels today. Philosphy that was discussed among few Brahmins before is now reaching in the bed rooms of millions of homes both within and outside India. As per Astha channel, one of Hindu religious channels, Youth is their main viewer now.
Survey by CNN-IBN shows educated modern youth is more religious today than ever before....even more religious than their rural counterpart who are always considered more religions.

Even conversions attempts show that Hindu educated masses are almost impossible to convert whereas tribals uneducated Hindus are easy targets. To some extent, this is exactly opposite to what happens in Christianity today where educated Europe is almost Atheist now whereas tribal uneducated Africans are comparitvely more faithful christians.

Kumbh melas, largest religious gathering on Earth:
During 2002 Kumbh mela some Westerns had propagated that this will be last "Full Kumbh mela" of its kind because Hinduism will become less important in India as India is progressing but in 2007 "Half Kumbh mela"...more than 75 million people gathered at one place which even broke the record of full kumbh mela of 2002, God knows how many will attend in coming Full kumbh mela. Infact, Hinduism is becoming stronger and stronger in educated developed India.

Who imagined some years ago that some place in India can become reserved Hindu area? But today all 7 hills and surrounding area of 10,000 acres in Tirumala have become like a HINDU VATICAN. This will have a long term effects! It will spread to other states now. More is the missionary attack on Hinduism and pseudo-secular conspiracy, more will be the speed with which Hinduism will adapt itself.

Today Hindu philosphy is spreading in western nations without any strategies of conversion. Art of living, Mata amrtiaanandmayi, Yoga gurus, Vivekananda society etc. have millions of non-hindu followers worldwide. Yoga today is an essential part of american culture, tomarrow they will go to in search of its roots. Things take time, Giants like Hinduism need some painful shocks and require some time to wakeup from long sleep. I think stage is already set by God now...everyone is playing his part...just wait and watch because we firmly believe that Everything happens for the best!
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[Bodhi]

Evangelization efforts continue to be led in Bangalore by none other than its Ex-top cop and - beleive it or not - the sitting BJP MP from Bangalore rural H.T. Sangliana. His latest efforts: educating christians in South about the "anti-Christians violence" in Orissa.

http://www.sandeepweb.com/2008/01/21/super...ruth/#more-1014

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sangliana ostensibly is a BJP MP, a first-time MP at that. In the 2004 Lok Sabha elections, he stunned everybody by defeating the indefatigable Jaffer Sharief. Whatever the BJP’s reasons for inducting Sangliana, the ex-cop’s reasons for joining the “communal party” are interesting:

A retired Presbyterian police chief recently elected to India’s parliament as legislator for the Hindu nationalist BJP (Bharatiya Janata Party) has declared that he aims to convert the party into a secular group.
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"My aim was to make the BJP secular so that other Christians will not hesitate to join it," said Sangliana who had been accused by Hindu groups of supporting missionaries while he was police chief in Bangalore.

"I pray for BJP that it becomes more secular for the good of Christians. I will be happy when I can proclaim the name of Jesus proudly in the Indian parliament," said the former police officer on whom three feature movies have been made in the Kannada language.

Sangliana admitted that many BJP members "fear they will be converted if they go near Christians. But, I will try to change their perception of the church".

http://www.christianaggression.com/item_di...S&id=1094037694<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
is there anyone doubting the BJP's conviction of Hindutva agenda? Ask another sitting BJP MP Maneka Gandhi about MF Hussein's plight.

[Pandyan]

...And the BJP is purportedly the party that is pro-Hindu...

So many traitors abound. These drohis will do anything for some political leverage, or to "look good", or for money. Gujarat elections were a good example of this. Can't trust 99% of them. All traitorous scum.

[agnivayu]

Your help is needed. Christian aggressors are posting anti-Hindu comments on this SIFY news article.

http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=14591758

We need to put the fear of Jesus in them.

[Shambhu]

Amritha TV - Spreading Christian fiction <!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo-->
22/01/2008 10:46:38 GSK Menon

Today 22/1/08 , Amritha TV aired a program in its Subashitam program about the Stephanos Church at Arthungal. The regular lady commentator was there recounting about one person called Velutha, supposed to be a Christian youth and a close friend of Lord Ayyappa ! It was also propagated that all Ayyappa devotees on their return from Sabarimala should visit Arthungal Church.

Why have the Christians joined the Sabarimala bandwagon ? Simple, money, money, money ! If Muslims can mint lakhs and lakhs in the name of Vavar, then can Christians be far behind ? So they have created a fictional character called Velutha. Spun a story that he was a bosom friend of Lord Ayyappa , so Hindus should splurge money in the name of Velutha !

What is the status of Vavar/Velutha (note both names start with V) ? Vavar was just a pirate-trader ? He was never a Mullah or a Sufi saint. What does it matter if that Muslim was a close friend of a Kafir as long as he did not change his religion ? Even today not a single Mullah enters the Sabarimala temple. The Mullahs sit separately, collect a fortune and vanish. The temptation was too much for the Padres ! Lo and behold, a Velutha is created and spread through Asianet and Amritha TV.

Nobody knows who this Velutha is, who cares ? Slowly the rumour will be spread, then it will get publicity, then his name will appear in news papers "For Favours Received" ! Velutha will become famous and more famous, and then a Church will be built called VELUTHA - SABARI CHURCH !

This is a golden oppurtunity for enterprising moneyless Hindus, before the Christians start a Church, start a VELUTHA MEMORIAL and mint money. Don't call it a temple, Devasom Board and Sudhakaran will come running. Dont call it a Church, Padres will start a communal riot. Simply call it a secular friendship memorial. Install an idol of Velutha, paintings of Ayyappa embracing Velutha, and then you can embrace millions of rupees. Become Trustee of Velutha Memorial. Start before the Christians act. Good luck.

http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HKPage.aspx...eID=5402&SKIN=M

[acharya]

IT people are being made a target for christian conversion

Christian Youth movement is a new group which is being used in IT people to join
and use for conversion.

Check these names

www.christianyouth.org

Saturday night vigil
Prayer meeting on Thursday in companies

Christ College Bangalore - Center of Christian evangelism in the south
Jesus Youth

Breakfast for you
rexband - Music band for conversion