Jammu And Kashmir - 2

[Shambhu]

(3 wk old article)

Monday, July 14, 2008
<b>Minority UPA takes to a new low in politics</b>
Rather than bow to such a grotesque demand, secular elements within the state need to build a massive temple in the Kashmir Valley, as well as churches and gurudwaras, to send home the message that India is a secular country. By such an action, it will become clear to Wahabbi elements in Kashmir, as well as the rest of the pro-Pakistan brigade, that their efforts to destroy Kashmiriyat will not succeed.
http://pseudosecularism.blogspot.com/2008/...t=1217969880000

[Guest]

The article 'Kashmir: An analysis of the dispute and the US intervention in past and present' by known I S I stooge has more holes than proverbial swiss cheese. Even responding to it is too boring. But these people are paid to keep slinging mud.

That thread by Shambu on 'letters cut and paste' needs to be expanded to collect basic facts to expose such charlatans. Kinda like FAQ on different topics or list of Myth-busters.

[Shambhu]

Viren: Re letters thread

Yes, that is a good idea. THread should have:

1. Basic facts about psec/missionary/jehadi dangers, in short to the point sentences with references, and persuasion in normal language.

2. (1) in academic language needs to be in separate letters, made for cut paste into "intellectual" forums.

[ramana]

What is the election situation in J&K especially after teh Jammu protests?
I think Kashmir will be split between the NC and PDP. BJP will be clear majority in Jammu. What is current breakup and what constituencies are at stake?

[acharya]

<img src='http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/07/images/2008080757270101.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />

[G.Subramaniam]

<!--QuoteBegin-ramana+Aug 7 2008, 02:34 AM-->QUOTE(ramana @ Aug 7 2008, 02:34 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->What is the election situation in J&K especially after teh Jammu protests?
I think Kashmir will be split between the NC and PDP. BJP will be clear majority in Jammu. What is current breakup and what constituencies are at stake?
[right][snapback]85957[/snapback][/right]
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Jammu only has 37 seats and of these hindus are majority only in 26

Add some 5 seats from ladakh and we still are only at 31 seats out of 90

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-acharya+Aug 7 2008, 04:39 AM-->QUOTE(acharya @ Aug 7 2008, 04:39 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><img src='http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/07/images/2008080757270101.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
[right][snapback]85962[/snapback][/right]
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<b>Gathering of traitors, fools and anti Hindus of India.</b>
Meeting led by Sikh PM of India and Italian Sonia Gadhi.
They are gathered as if these low life are celebrating Hindus death in Jammu.

[acharya]

<b>RSS sends Muslim delegation to Srinagar</b>
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/...00808071640.htm
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->New Delhi (PTI): With agitations over the Amarnath land issue continuing in Jammu and Srinagar, the RSS on Thursdayflagged off a delegation of Muslim leaders to campaign for peace in the trouble-torn state.
<b>
The 30-member delegation of the Rashtravadi Muslim Manch (or the Nationalist Muslim Front), a Sangh-backed outfit, was flagged off by RSS leader K S Sudarshan from the Red Fort here.

"The land allocated for the pilgrims needs to restored. This is not a view held by Hindus only but by people of all religions across the country," Sudarshan told reporters.</b>

The delegation is slated to reach Lal Chowk in Srinagar and will hold discussions with different section of the society on the issue.

"We stand for the fact that Muslims in India love their motherland. Anyone who stands in our way is not a true Muslim or a Hindu," said Convenor of the Front Mohammed Afzal.

"If there is any Muslim in the valley who feels that Pakistan is his homeland, then we will respectfully leave him to the borders."

Commenting on RJD supremo Lalu Prasad Yadav's comments to ban the RSS on the lines of SIMI, Sudarshan said, "The demand reflects his nature and mentality."

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[acharya]

<b>
CPI(M) accuses Sangh parivar for J&K situation</b>

New Delhi (PTI): Warning that the Amarnath row may create a "fertile ground" for cross-border terrorism to raise its "ugly head", the CPI(M) has accused the Sangh Parivar of whipping up communal passions to reap electoral and political benefits in Jammu and Kashmir.

In an editorial in the forthcoming issue of 'People's Democracy', CPI(M) pointed out that a similar decision in 2005 to rescind the order of transferring forest land to Amarnath Shrine Board did not create any controversy.

"The fact that it (decision to revoke transfer of land to the Board) has led to a raging agitation today clearly points to the fact that this has been mounted keeping in view of the forthcoming elections to the state assembly in October and the general elections in early 2009.

"Communal passions are being sharply aroused with rumours spreading like wildfire about the Hindus not being allowed to undertake the yatra etc. Likewise, extremist elements in the valley are also whipping up passions," the editorial noted.

Noting that such a conflagration is being created in order to "reap electoral and political benefits", it said that it would have serious implications threatening the security of the country in this border state and "creating a fertile ground for cross-border terrorism to raise its ugly head".

Pointing fingers at the RSS and BJP, it said the call for a three-day all-India bandh on the matter is "indicative of its desire to utilise this issue to whip up communal passions further in order to try and consolidate its Hindu vote bank".

The party said, "it is imperative that the incendiary flames of this communally-charged movement must be doused urgently".

[Guest]

Do I need a visa to go to Jammu? asks Farooq
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Striking a dramatic note, Abdullah said he would have to visit his father Sheikh Abdullah's grave and ask whether staying on in India after Partition had been the right decision. "A time has come when I could require a visa to visit Jammu," he said.
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Once upon a time Farooq was fantasizing of having his or his <i>abba-jaan</i>'s mug on rupee notes printed for Kashmir. As part of NDA he blocked revoking the Art 370. Time people in valley showed him the door - with visa and a one way ticket.


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Mehbooba's speech was no less high-pitched as she said the blockade resulting from the Jammu stir could result in the Valley "looking to the road to Muzzaffarabad (PoK)".
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<!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's a Sheikh Abdulla type subtle threat: <i>look after my interests else 'we' go to Pak</i>. Time to call the bluff of these charlatans.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin--><b>Jammu wants regime change  </b>
Pioneer.com
Ashok Malik
It is tempting to compare the Hindu protests in Jammu to the Ayodhya movement. Certainly, anybody who saw the television images of impassioned activists jumping into the Tawi river in an attempt to enter Jammu town, cordoned off by the Army, would have recalled the inspirational kar seva of 1990. Determined foot-soldiers of Ram made their way to Ayodhya, even though the Mulayam Singh Yadav Government had converted the city into a garrison.

On the face of it, little has changed. The mood at the all-party meeting called by the Prime Minister was still broadly adversarial to Hindu agitation. A variety of regional parties, most of whom don't have a ghost of a presence in Jammu & Kashmir, made familiar noises. The undercurrent was clear: Jammu is the villain, Kashmir the victim.

The media is still as uninformed and instinctually hostile as it was at the height of the Ayodhya unrest. The Jammu violence is a reaction to hardline Muslim elements in Kashmir refusing to allow even temporary shelters for Hindu pilgrims travelling to the Amarnath shrine. Yet, the media saw that phenomenon as "Kashmiri mass sentiment". The Jammu agitation is, on the other hand, "religious" and "communal".

Despite this backdrop, there are substantial differences in the evolution of the Ayodhya and Jammu movements, and in the political response to them. For a start, there is this manufactured belief that the uprising in Jammu has been masterminded by the BJP and the Sangh Parivar, an entity to which almost mythical powers are now ascribed. The liberal intelligentsia is refusing to acknowledge that strong Hindu emotions can exist even outside organised politics.

In truth, Jammu represents a genuine people's movement. The throng led the way and the BJP and representatives of the Congress and other local parties simply got pulled in. The intensity of the anger over the denial of what were seen as fundamental religious and social rights at Amarnath was too powerful to have been generated by politicians.

The Ram Janmabhoomi movement offered a contrast. The VHP and the BJP -- depending on where you stand -- educated and informed or instigated and urged Hindus towards the "ocular insult", to use Mr LK Advani's phrase. In Jammu, the people became the vanguard.

Second, in assessing the political fallout of Jammu, both national parties -- the Congress and the BJP -- are haunted by the Ayodhya experience. The Congress was relatively subdued at the all-party meeting. Secular grandstanding of the Arjun Singh variety was studiously avoided even though, ironically, it has been standard party protocol for most of the UPA's term.

The Congress was singed by the Ayodhya movement, dramatically losing support among the Hindu middles classes. It has no desire to relive that nightmare. Further, it is selling the nuclear deal with America as an investment for India's strategic and economic future. This is, essentially, an appeal to mainstream/Hindu India. Already defensive on terrorism, the party cannot afford to be seen as insensitive to Jammu.

While such a strategy is true for sections of the Congress, it does not, admittedly, define the entire party. In that sense, the BJP is unambiguous. Its unqualified sympathy lies with the Jammu cause. As Mr Arun Jaitley put it, the "Jammu psyche" will now require equal attention. It can no more be pushed aside by the permanently-aggrieved "Kashmir psyche".

Yet, the BJP itself is uncertain about the possible implications of the Jammu mood. It realises the all-India potential. <b>The denial of shelter to Hindu pilgrims trekking to a cave that, at an altitude of 13,500 feet, is close to half the way up to Everest, has touched a raw nerve</b>. When married to the disquiet over a confused policy on terrorism and on combating the sources of jihad, economic worries and general disarray in governance, it can become a potent electoral weapon.

So why isn't the BJP jumping into the fray? There are two reasons. One, it has to identify the appropriate, credible messenger, the mass leader whose interventions or public statements on Jammu and Amarnath and ability to link these to the larger context carry resonance. Two, it has to fine-tune the message. The BJP can only make Jammu a national campaign if it outlines a specific, practicable set of political goals.

The confusion and cleavage that followed December 6, 1992, cannot be repeated. The BJP dropped the temple issue, arguing it had made its point about Hindu impatience. The VHP saw the construction of the Ram Mandir as the non-negotiable and immediate objective. The misgivings that resulted still divide the Sangh family.

In Jammu, what is the ultimate objective of the consortium of 35 organisations that has taken on the guns and bayonets? The BJP needs to appreciate and nuance the emotionalism and convert it into an achievable manifesto.

While the wish list cannot be over-ambitious, neither can it be limited to just allowing pilgrims right to rest in pre-fab shelters en route to the Amarnath shrine, or even guaranteeing autonomy to Hindu temples in Kashmir. The social contract between Jammu and the establishment in Srinagar has to be redrawn.

For too long have the timeservers and opportunists who pass off for political leaders in the Valley pretended that the Kashmiri prejudice is free of religion. The Abdullah family is, of course, a classic example, but the PDP is not far behind. It is no surprise that Mr Omar Abdullah's theatrical sermon in Parliament on July 22 impressed nobody other than gushing television interviewers.

Consider the plight of Jammu. Assembly seats are frozen in the State as the census and delimitation processes have not been concluded. The accretion in Jammu's population -- not least because of the close to half-a-million Hindu refugees from the Valley -- is not being allowed to register as electoral leverage.

Jammu's residents are children of a lesser god. Sikhs have been prominent among the recent protesters. They are largely descendants of the 30,000 Partition refugees who fled Pakistan and settled in Jammu. Today, the community is 100,000 strong. It can vote in parliamentary elections but has no State domicile rights -- it cannot access higher education quotas, cannot buy property, cannot elect an MLA.

Contrast this with the integration of Muslim refugees from Xinjiang and Tibet who arrived in Srinagar in the 1950s, after the annexation of their homelands by Communist China. The discrepancy is there for all to see. It needs to be rectified, and Jammu's liberty institutionalised. This calls for more than just pro forma steps on Amarnath.
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[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Aug 7 2008, 11:10 AM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Aug 7 2008, 11:10 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin--><!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's a Sheikh Abdulla type subtle threat: <i>look after my interests else 'we' go to Pak</i>. Time to call the bluff of these charlatans.
[right][snapback]86027[/snapback][/right]
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Viren, In the interview I saw, Mehbooba was threatening India in no uncertain terms - there was no subtlety. She used the words -> "I am warning you". She had 2 threats..

1. dont loose kashmir for 800 kanals of land
2. dont make gujarat out of jammu.

[Guest]

Rajesh: Is this Mehbooba the same lady who was kidnapped in late 80s during Weepy govt at center and some jihadis were let go in exchange for her release?

[Capt M Kumar]

That's right.
And her dad was the Home Minister of India and elected MP from ?Mujjafarpur in UP.

[Guest]

I remember nation praying for her safe release.
Talk of biting the hand which fed it.

[Guest]

<!--QuoteBegin-Viren+Aug 8 2008, 04:24 AM-->QUOTE(Viren @ Aug 8 2008, 04:24 AM)<!--QuoteEBegin-->Rajesh: Is this Mehbooba the same lady who was kidnapped in late 80s during Weepy govt at center and some jihadis were let go in exchange for her release?
[right][snapback]86041[/snapback][/right]
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She was Mehbooba's younger sister.

[Guest]

When I was in Srinagar, J&K. I learnt one saying<i> "Never trust Kashmir weather, never trust Kashmiri people"</i>

[Shambhu]

<b>धर्मनिरपेक्ष" छक्के ताली बजाने लगे हैं… जम्मू वालों अब मान भी जाओ </b>
http://www.sanghparivar.org/blog/chandan-indo-17

---
Translation: "Secular" transvestites/eunuchs are clapping: Jammuites please understand and be quiet.

<!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->
PS: The above clapping is not to be confused with the clapping referred to in the headline..

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असल में जम्मू के युवक भी सचमुच गलती कर रहे हैं, उन्हें पुलिस या राज्य सरकार पर अपना गुस्सा सड़कों पर उतारने की क्या जरूरत है? जम्मू क्षेत्र में जितने भी पीडीपी के स्थानीय नेता हैं, उन्हें घर से निकालकर चौराहे पर लाकर जूते से मारना चाहिये, पीडीपी नाम की फ़फ़ूंद जम्मू क्षेत्र से ही हटा देना चाहिये।

Translation:
Actually, young people of Jammu are also making a mistake, why do they need to take to the streets in anger over the police or state government? They need to get the PDP regional leaders from the Jammu region out of their houses and into the chowk, and need to slap them with chappals; the fungus called PDP should be cleaned out from the whole Jammu region.

[Guest]

छक्के भांड-गवैयों की स्वयंभू मालकिन महारानी सोनिया गाँधी
<!--emo&:bhappy--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/b_woot.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='b_woot.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:roll--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ROTFL.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='ROTFL.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Shambhu]

I know! These guys have a talent for prose...

Edit: "These guys" is actually Suresh Chiplunkar