Historicity of Jesus - 2

[ramana]

New algorithm identifies ghost writing in Old Testament

Moses is believed to have authored the first five books of the Bible, known as the Torah. But scholars have presented evidence that multiple writers had composed Torah's text. Other books of the Hebrew Bible and of the New Testament are also thought to be composites.



However, identifying these multiple sources has been a laborious task. Now a new algorithm could help unravel the different sources that went into the making of the Bible.



Nachum Dershowitz, professor in computer science at Tel Aviv University, who worked with colleagues from Hebrew and other universities, says their algorithm recognises linguistic cues, such as word preference, to divide texts into probable author groupings.



By focusing exclusively on writing style instead of subject or genre, Dershowitz and colleagues sidestepped hurdles that hamper conventional Bible scholarship, according to a Tel Aviv statement.



These issues include a potential lack of objectivity in analysis and complications caused by the multiple genres and literary forms found in the Bible, including poetry, narrative, law and parable.



To test the validity of their method, researchers randomly mixed passages from the two Hebrew books of Jeremiah and Ezekiel and asked the computer to separate them.



By searching for and categorising chapters by synonym preference, and then looking at the usage of common words, the computer programme was able to separate the passages with 99 percent accuracy.



These findings were presented at the 49th Annual Conference of the Association for Computational Linguistics in Portland, US.

How can they be called Testaments when they have multiple authors indicating refining the message?

[dhu]

placeholder for this link:



[url="http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=implosion%2Bsocial&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CDYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.egs.edu%2Ffaculty%2Fjean-baudrillard%2Farticles%2Fsimulacra-and-simulations-viii-the-implosion-of-meaning-in-the-media%2F&ei=KhqqTqW1HY-KsALo0aifDw&usg=AFQjCNHSLppyNYwUd9Xa9DkqO414p7A7VA&sig2=syhxiBtRSYpZB6qUUOhcmA"]Jean Baudrillard - Simulacra and Simulations - VIII. The Implosion of Meaning in the Media[/url]

[dhu]

[size="3"]Posting some quotes I came across:

A Deluge of Verbs ... ?



Some years ago I had chanced on the essay "A Famine of Verbs" (in the 'Annual of Urdu Studies', vol 19, 2004) which was a translation into English of M. H. `Askari's "qaht-E af`Al" published in 1953. According to Mr. `Askari, urdU literature has stagnated since its early days and one of the root causes of this stagnation is the relative lack of non-compound verbs in modern literary works (and, indeed, in everyday use). I quote below the relevant excerpts from the essay which condense the essence of his thesis (Translation by Mr. B. Rehman):

Literature can be vibrantly alive only when not just the writers but also the readers have at least some interest in the problems of literary language and expression ... If we are still concerned about the life or death of our literature, we must learn to read before we start writing ... Pick up a magazine or a book and choose a random page as a sample. Make a list of the types of words used. The whole picture of literary stagnation will become clear.

...

The subject or the experience should be present, not just in the whole poem or short story, but it should be there in every word and phrase. If the writer has an honest and creative investment in his experience, the only proof of this would lie in his making sure that his words are not mere corpses that serve to fill a hole, but are operative in the verb mode.

...

The true poet’s words and phrases don’t just contain emotions and feelings. They also contain action.

...

Fenollosa says that a poet’s greatness can be determined by the fact that the verbs used by him contain action within them, for such verbs make us conscious of the great powers of nature ... Fenollosa has even said, use the word “is” and poetry disappears. And in reality, excessive use of this word is a sign of the entire nation’s biological decline.



Mr. `Askari acknowledges the provisional nature of the thesis and anticipates possible criticism:



To what extent these ideas are true and how closely the world’s great literature does conform to them cannot be the issue under discussion here.

He then continues:

Even a cursory look at Urdu literature will show you how far our language has declined in vigor and vitality through successive stages in its history. Mir has many verbs which describe the different actions of the human body, not like Shakespeare to be sure, but still, he has quite a few. You will find these only occasionally in Ghalib. Ghalib has always tried not to use any verb other than “to be” ... After Ghalib, and during the time of Ghalib idolizing, our literature fell on truly bad times. Writers like Niyaz Fatehpuri and his contemporaries tried to write prose which had few verbs but a whole slew of adjectives with each noun. And when the sense of action dried up, these people lost the sense of things too. By separating the object from its quality (adjective) they made both their language and diction quite hollow. As a result, their prose gives the impression of layer upon layer of bricks piled one on top of the other without mortar. A little push, and the whole pile topples over. This was a period of extreme weakness for Urdu prose.

...

Now our prose and, especially, poetry are dominated by that one verb "to be". And this reflects the attitude of all of us towards life. We have lost touch with action that is in tune with the diversity of nature’s powers ... We describe this situation as literary stagnation and feel content, although the matter is not as simple as that.

...

One disintegrative element was there already when Urdu was constructed. Persian speakers are responsible for the undesirable invention of adding "budan" ("to be") and "kardan" ("to do") to Arabic words and making verbs out of them. On top of that, the Urdu speakers imitated this style and started adding "karna" ("to do") and "hona" ("to be") to Persian words and fashioning verbs in abundance, kicking out adequate and rather useful indigenous words to make room for the neologisms ... Very few verbs have entered the Urdu language since their time. But what is most incredible today is that we seem to have forgotten verbs entirely. My estimate is that these days the newspapers or magazines don’t use more than fifty verbs ... there must be at least a minimum of a thousand verbs [in urdU] ... things have come to such a pretty pass that apart from "to do" ("karna") and "to be" ("hona") it is difficult to find a third verb in our writings.

In the same essay, Mr. `Askari asserts the following point which does not have a direct bearing on this post, but may be of interest anyway:

The problem of the use of verbs is also part of another basic problem. In many ways, our entire literature has been a victim of the ghazal. Perhaps we should thank the ghazal for not allowing a sense of architectonics to develop among Urdu poets and prose writers. Even the greatest of our non-ghazal poems do not achieve a clear symphonic form.

A gulf of over 5 decades separates Mr. `Askari's essay from present times. And whether one agrees or not in general terms with the above thesis, I thought that it may be worthwhile to have a ready list of non-compound verbs that are part of the hindUstAnI idiom. I've had the good fortune of being able to rely on the online version of Platts' dictionary maintained by the good folks at the DSAL project of the University of Chicago. I've mined the dictionary for verbs, and in doing so have been often surprised by how many verbs I was unaware of. In some cases, I was surprised that many examples of compound verbs used in urdU actually have a non-compound equivalent which I'd never encountered. I may have missed out on a few verbs here and there, but I hope this listing will be of some use to interested souls:

Of course, the commentator fails to make a connection of the paucity of dynamism-related words in Urdu with Monotheism.

The failures of Monotheism always are conveniently glossed over as decadence. [/size]

[ramana]

The stagnation and decline in verb usage is because of the sense of entitlement in TSP and in India among Urdu speakers who depend on handouts than on self help. A passive milieu cannot and willnot support active verbs!

[dhu]

[quote name='ramana' date='09 December 2011 - 03:06 AM' timestamp='1323379731' post='113991']

The stagnation and decline in verb usage is because of the sense of entitlement in TSP and in India among Urdu speakers who depend on handouts than on self help. A passive milieu cannot and willnot support active verbs!

[/quote]



But what of the Herrenvolk who are "independent" and "active", Masters and Lords of Creation..

It is only through this monotheist colonialism that they "are".

Their purported and oft-declared activeness and dynamism is actually a simulacrum culture which is a parasitic "analysis" of the "literature" of the ancients and the heathens.

Their entire "discourse" is geared towards one thing only which is self-aggrandizement of their "identity"

As and when they see fit, they will abnegate or deny (again by declaration) and the activeness will transferred to an Entity Without. And so they will then even aggrandize in their "suffering" and "denial"

[acharya]

New theory about the western dominance - False narrative

The killer apps are Christianity, e.g. the fruits of the Holy Spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, patience, self-control, chastity.



Christians may not work. Some would sell drugs for mammon. But Christianity does. Christians have both. It depends on their free will.



How do you explain some eastern country westernize, become aggressive and got the atomic bomb? Did they learn the wrong thing? Or did they not have enough time to learn the right thing? Or they have learned everything else but the killer apps?



Neither did Hitler have the killer apps either. Neither did Marx.



How do we explain we have to deal with some religion as if we were dealing with some decease?



For world empire, e.g. Britain, they have ruled the world for 500 years. They have time to learn and apply with their killer apps, Christianity. Their killer apps still live on, maybe in a different face, but nonetheless, live on. And I of a different face hope it lives on because it is good for humanity and for everyone else. Thank you, Christianity. Thank you, Britain.

[dhu]

x-post



[quote name='Meluhhan' date='18 January 2012 - 09:21 AM' timestamp='1326858237' post='114236']

...



BTW, in the New Testament, Jesus criticizes a Jewish sect called the Pharisees that adhered to a strict interpretation of Jewish law. The name sounds very similar to "Parsi".

Does Christianity represent a rejection of Persian thought in favor of Hellenistic thought?

[/quote]

[dhu]

Modernity actually serves as a foil for baselining of Catholicism (and Islam) as "traditional". This is quite clear from the good-humored works of the "anti-imperialist" Morris Berman. Also clear now is that the charge that modernity is a result of negative (relational/ reactive) identity is the same as the usual damnation of the heathen as reactionary. The heathen relational is actually sought to be recast as the rascally dialectic.

[dhu]

.

[dhu]

x-post

ramana

I think India has decided that Syria is not an interest. So essentially its returning Syria to Arab Sunni hands/rule.



My reading of history is that greater India stretches to the Syrian desert on the west and upto Plain of jars on the East.

[dhu]

<quote>10-14-2007, 06:35 AM

There are elements of "Valley Girl" talk that may have been around since World War II. In particular, uptalk may have originated in Australia or New Zealand:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_rising_terminal



In fact, uptalk seems to have appeared everywhere at once. Besides the U.S., Australia, and New Zealand, there are also indications of it appearing spontaneously in the U.K., Ireland, Canada, and South Africa.





People from Newcastle in England start low and then get progressively more high pitched.

The only trouble is that non "Geordies" cant understand a **ing word of what they're on about.</quote>

[dhu]

BLOGS





Valley Girl Talk

Power Presentations - Wednesday, June 01, 2011

Invisible Question Marks



photo courtesy of Taylor MaliOne of the most familiar quotes from the Bible is, “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”



Unfortunately, legions of men—and women—have not followed the Biblical progression: they have become adults, but they still speak as children. They punctuate and malign their speech with repeated insertions of “like” and “you know?” But their most egregious and pervasive quirk is the sing-song pattern of their childhood. They speak their declarative sentences with rising inflection at the ends, forming questions rather than statements.



The effect is also known as “Valley Girl Talk.”



Taylor Mali, a spoken-word performer, voiceover artist, and poet captured this juvenile speech pattern in a clever poem called “Totally like whatever, you know?” The first stanza reads like this:



In case you hadn't noticed,

it has somehow become uncool

to sound like you know what you're talking about?

Or believe strongly in what you're saying?

Invisible question marks and parenthetical (you know?)'s

have been attaching themselves to the ends of our sentences?

Even when those sentences aren't, like, questions? You know?

Mr. Mali’s poem was turned into an equally clever video called “Typography” by Ronnie Bruce in which the visual artist accompanies Mr. Mali’s words with animated fonts. And Mr. Mali’s voice reciting the poem on the soundtrack gives perfect expression to the rising inflection he disdains by ending his sentences with what he calls “Invisible question marks.”



The remedy for Valley Girl Talk is to drop the voice at the end of sentences—in spoken language, at the ends of phrases—thus parsing the logic of the phrases. Dropping the voice to punctuate the phrases creates a crisp, clear, and adult cadence. Cadence in speech is like rhythm in music. Think of the main theme of Beethoven’s great Fifth Symphony and its famous pattern of three short notes followed by a long one:



Bam-Bam-Bam BAM.

From the sublime of Beethoven to the mundane, the universally familiar “Shave and a haircut … two bits.” The rhythmic snippet is often expressed without words, as a knock on a door composed of five short notes followed by two long ones:



Bam-Bam-Bam-Bam-bam, BAM, BAM.

Try rapping your knuckles on your desk with just the five short notes…



It sounds incomplete, doesn’t it? The final raps resolve the musical phrase, just as dropping the voice in speech resolves the spoken phrase.



Readers of The Power Presenter will recognize this skill as “Complete the Arc;” the arc is the logic of the phrase, and the completion is the falling inflection that adds the BAM, BAM to your words—and puts away childish things.



(Thanks to A. Gino Giglio for the link to Taylor Mali)

Comments (1) | Trackbacks (0) | Permalink

Comments

Jack Martin Leith commented on 06-Feb-2012 09:00 AM

Could't agree more. Frank Zappa's song Valley Girl says it all: http://youtu.be/i1rQ0sQEpRM Warm wishes from Bristol UK.

[acharya]

A NEW INTRODUCTION TO

THE BODY OF TATHÂGATAS

alias

THE NEW TESTAMENT

by Chr. Lindtner

Klavreström 9/11 2003





Introduction





The best way to engage in a serious study of the four New Testament Gospels is, I claim, to start by counting the number of verses, the number of words, the number of syllables and the number of letters that the Greek text of course consists of. The Greek text is easily available, even online.



You may be startled by my rather prosaic claim that one has to start by counting the words, the syllables and the letters of God in the good news of his son, Jesus Christ. None of the numerous modern introductions to the New Testament start out by inviting the student to start counting.

When you start counting, however, you will soon see that the unknown authors of the Gospels must have paid extreme attention to each word and syllable, to their number and to their numerical value, what the Greeks call psêphos. In a lecture published in 1970, the Dutch NT scholar Joost Smit Sibinga observed, with regard to Matthew, that he, “...arranged his text in such a way that the size of the individual sections is fixed by a determined number of syllables. The individual parts of a sentence, the sentences themselves, sections of a smaller and larger size, they are, all of them, characterized in a purely quantitative way by their number of syllables”.

Subsequent research, notably by Smit Sibinga himself, M.J.J. Menken and others, have proved that Smit Sibinga´s observation applies not only to Matthew but also to the other evangelists, probably even to all the 27 writings constituting the body of the NT.







The CLT states, briefly, that the Gospels, perhaps even the NT as a whole, is a Pirate-copy of the Buddhist Gospels, or of the Buddha´s Testament. These terms will be defined in due course.

I have also spoken of translations, whereby I mean imitations. To be more precise, I should speak of Pirate-copies in the sense of universal imitations. When I speak of “universal” imitations, I mean to say that the Gospels not only imitate the sense of the Sanskrit originals. The Gospels also imitate the form and the numerical values found at various levels in the original. When I speak of a Pirate-copy, I wish to suggest that the authors of the Gospels (and the NT as a whole) also wanted to keep their sources secret. The secret of the Christ, ho khristos, is the secret of the ksatriyas. The kingdom of heaven was “received without pay”, Matthew 10:8, “and men of violence take it by force”, Matthew 11:12. It is in this sense I speak of copies made by unknown pirates. The authors of the NT wished to remain unknown, exactly as the authors of the original Buddhist texts wished to remain unknow to posterity. It must always be kept in mind that the authors wished to keep their true identity secret.



The fact that we are, if I am not mistaken, speaking of secret imitations, Pirate-copies, obviously does not make it easier for us to identify the sources of the Gospels.



My friend, Dr. J. Duncan M. Derrett, who incidentally sends his cordial greeting to the participants of this symposium, says, with Garbe: “ To require close verbal similarity is too ask too much”.

By here my learned friend is simply too modest in his demands.

As you all are aware, there is a so-called synoptic problem. Matthew, Mark and Luke have a lot in common. But there are some differences. The synoptic problem has to do with the mutual relationship between the three Gospels. It is discussed in any modern introduction to the NT. Augustine held that Mark depended on Matthew, and Luke on Matthew and Mark. A modern theory saying that Mark was the first evangelist, and that Matthew and Luke depended not only on Mark but also on a source, now termed Q(uelle), but no longer available, has found fairly general (but not universal) acceptance. The hypothesis of Q, however, cannot account for what Q actually looked like, who made it, its language, what ever became of Q etc., and it fails to explain the origin of Mark.





Conclusion





Buddhists have a long tradition for counting the number of words and syllables in their gospels. They also have a deep experience in translating Indian texts into foreign languages. It goes back to the time of king Asoka.108 is the lucky number. Even the Rgveda is said to consists of 10800 x 40 syllables. Many texts have titles indicating the number of syllables that it consists of Masters of counting are often extolled in the Buddhist texts. They are said to be masters of gananâ or ganite.



There is still a long way ahead of us, but we can already now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It is a fact that the Buddhist and Christian evangelists counted the words and syllables and that they were aware of the numerical values of each letter. My book gives some examples and each day new examples are brought to light.

How they managed to construe careful numerical patterns on several levels at the same time is still a puzzle to me. Did they employ some sort of mechanical device - or did they possess some extraordinary powers of memorizing?

The example with Kêphas and petra shows that sometimes the evangelists were thinking in geometrical patterns.

It is therefore natural to search for geometrical patterns behind, on the one hand 108 and 100 etc., and on the other, behind 888 and 666. If we are a bit familiar with more occult Western traditions the numbers mentioned above point in the direction of various geometrical figures, above all the pentagon and pentagram and the so-called magic square, inscribed in circles.



For details I refer to the drawings of the Pentagram and the Magic Square.







Some interesting 108 cases in the New Testament





1. Mark 1 begins his gospel about ´Iêsou Khristou, Sanskrit ksatriyasya, with an OT quotation. OT is also a part of the real Q, of course. - Then follows a unit of 108 words in 4-9. This is followed by 6 other units of 108 words, viz. 18-24, 21-27, 23-29, 31-38, 32-39 and 33-40. Moreover, the first four verses along with the two final verses, 44-45, add up to 108 words.

The beginning-end pattern, the alpha-omega pattern, is repeated in Mark 13, where the first 3 verses and the last 4 verses add up to 108 words.



2. Mark 5 displays another pattern with 108 in the focus. Verses 1-20 consist of 324 or 3x108 words. Verses 24-37 consist of 216 or 2x108 words. The “missing” verses, namely 21-23 and 38-43 add up to 158 or 108+50 or 1/2 of 100.

Verses 25-31, a unit about the woman who had had a flow of blood for twelve years, also consists of 108 words. All the stories, including the figures, can be traced back to the MSV.

http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/CLT.html

[acharya]

A NEW INTRODUCTION TO

THE BODY OF TATHÂGATAS

alias

THE NEW TESTAMENT

by Chr. Lindtner

Klavreström 9/11 2003





Introduction





The best way to engage in a serious study of the four New Testament Gospels is, I claim, to start by counting the number of verses, the number of words, the number of syllables and the number of letters that the Greek text of course consists of. The Greek text is easily available, even online.



You may be startled by my rather prosaic claim that one has to start by counting the words, the syllables and the letters of God in the good news of his son, Jesus Christ. None of the numerous modern introductions to the New Testament start out by inviting the student to start counting.

When you start counting, however, you will soon see that the unknown authors of the Gospels must have paid extreme attention to each word and syllable, to their number and to their numerical value, what the Greeks call psêphos. In a lecture published in 1970, the Dutch NT scholar Joost Smit Sibinga observed, with regard to Matthew, that he, “...arranged his text in such a way that the size of the individual sections is fixed by a determined number of syllables. The individual parts of a sentence, the sentences themselves, sections of a smaller and larger size, they are, all of them, characterized in a purely quantitative way by their number of syllables”.

Subsequent research, notably by Smit Sibinga himself, M.J.J. Menken and others, have proved that Smit Sibinga´s observation applies not only to Matthew but also to the other evangelists, probably even to all the 27 writings constituting the body of the NT.







The CLT states, briefly, that the Gospels, perhaps even the NT as a whole, is a Pirate-copy of the Buddhist Gospels, or of the Buddha´s Testament. These terms will be defined in due course.

I have also spoken of translations, whereby I mean imitations. To be more precise, I should speak of Pirate-copies in the sense of universal imitations. When I speak of “universal” imitations, I mean to say that the Gospels not only imitate the sense of the Sanskrit originals. The Gospels also imitate the form and the numerical values found at various levels in the original. When I speak of a Pirate-copy, I wish to suggest that the authors of the Gospels (and the NT as a whole) also wanted to keep their sources secret. The secret of the Christ, ho khristos, is the secret of the ksatriyas. The kingdom of heaven was “received without pay”, Matthew 10:8, “and men of violence take it by force”, Matthew 11:12. It is in this sense I speak of copies made by unknown pirates. The authors of the NT wished to remain unknown, exactly as the authors of the original Buddhist texts wished to remain unknow to posterity. It must always be kept in mind that the authors wished to keep their true identity secret.



The fact that we are, if I am not mistaken, speaking of secret imitations, Pirate-copies, obviously does not make it easier for us to identify the sources of the Gospels.



My friend, Dr. J. Duncan M. Derrett, who incidentally sends his cordial greeting to the participants of this symposium, says, with Garbe: “ To require close verbal similarity is too ask too much”.

By here my learned friend is simply too modest in his demands.

As you all are aware, there is a so-called synoptic problem. Matthew, Mark and Luke have a lot in common. But there are some differences. The synoptic problem has to do with the mutual relationship between the three Gospels. It is discussed in any modern introduction to the NT. Augustine held that Mark depended on Matthew, and Luke on Matthew and Mark. A modern theory saying that Mark was the first evangelist, and that Matthew and Luke depended not only on Mark but also on a source, now termed Q(uelle), but no longer available, has found fairly general (but not universal) acceptance. The hypothesis of Q, however, cannot account for what Q actually looked like, who made it, its language, what ever became of Q etc., and it fails to explain the origin of Mark.





Conclusion





Buddhists have a long tradition for counting the number of words and syllables in their gospels. They also have a deep experience in translating Indian texts into foreign languages. It goes back to the time of king Asoka.108 is the lucky number. Even the Rgveda is said to consists of 10800 x 40 syllables. Many texts have titles indicating the number of syllables that it consists of Masters of counting are often extolled in the Buddhist texts. They are said to be masters of gananâ or ganite.



There is still a long way ahead of us, but we can already now see the light at the end of the tunnel.

It is a fact that the Buddhist and Christian evangelists counted the words and syllables and that they were aware of the numerical values of each letter. My book gives some examples and each day new examples are brought to light.

How they managed to construe careful numerical patterns on several levels at the same time is still a puzzle to me. Did they employ some sort of mechanical device - or did they possess some extraordinary powers of memorizing?

The example with Kêphas and petra shows that sometimes the evangelists were thinking in geometrical patterns.

It is therefore natural to search for geometrical patterns behind, on the one hand 108 and 100 etc., and on the other, behind 888 and 666. If we are a bit familiar with more occult Western traditions the numbers mentioned above point in the direction of various geometrical figures, above all the pentagon and pentagram and the so-called magic square, inscribed in circles.



For details I refer to the drawings of the Pentagram and the Magic Square.







Some interesting 108 cases in the New Testament





1. Mark 1 begins his gospel about ´Iêsou Khristou, Sanskrit ksatriyasya, with an OT quotation. OT is also a part of the real Q, of course. - Then follows a unit of 108 words in 4-9. This is followed by 6 other units of 108 words, viz. 18-24, 21-27, 23-29, 31-38, 32-39 and 33-40. Moreover, the first four verses along with the two final verses, 44-45, add up to 108 words.

The beginning-end pattern, the alpha-omega pattern, is repeated in Mark 13, where the first 3 verses and the last 4 verses add up to 108 words.



2. Mark 5 displays another pattern with 108 in the focus. Verses 1-20 consist of 324 or 3x108 words. Verses 24-37 consist of 216 or 2x108 words. The “missing” verses, namely 21-23 and 38-43 add up to 158 or 108+50 or 1/2 of 100.

Verses 25-31, a unit about the woman who had had a flow of blood for twelve years, also consists of 108 words. All the stories, including the figures, can be traced back to the MSV.

http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/CLT.html

[acharya]

Numbers and names - which came first?





This is an highly relevant and extremely important question. If the numbers came first and the names were construed or chosen only for their numerical value - what, then, becomes of the historicity of the persons having that name assigned to them? If, alternatively, the names came first, how, then, can we account for the fact that so many names “just happen” to have a highly significant numerical value?

It seems unlikely that ´Iêsous just happens to be 888 or that Kêphas and petra “just happen” to be 729 and 486 - two figures representing a cube.

It seems unlikely that Paulos and sophia “just happen” to be 781. We have seen that sophia is closely associated with counting and we have seen examples that “Paulos” was extremely good at counting. Paulos and Sophia are intimately associated, just as Prajnâ and Upâyas form a pair. Is Paulos, in fact, not simply Upâyas in fairly obvious disguise? There is, in fact no independent evidence to spport that either Jesus or Paul were historical persons. We only have the word of the NT for it, and that is not enough.

It seems unlikely, does it not, that Munis, Tathâgatas and Sâkyamunis, always in the nominative form, “just happen” to be 700, 816 (2/3 of 1224) and 932, respectively.



And does it not seem unlikely that axôn, omphalos and Sanskrit Sûrias/Sûryas “just happen” to be 911 - just as its seems unlikely that certain significant events “just happen” to take place 9/11 - even today.



In his remarkable book Jesus Christ: Sun of God, from 1993, David Fideler (p. 72-73) points to some striking examples suggesting that the canon of Greek gematria, going back to the time before Plato, presupposes that the names of the major divinities and mythological figures were consciously codified in relation to the natural ratio of geometry to equal specific numerical values.

If this is true, and I think it is, this means that the numbers came before the gods and the mythological figures, in other words that the gods etc., or at least their names, were simply made up or fabricated. Examples are provided by the solar divinity Abraxas that in Greek has the numerical value of 365, the number of days in a solar year. Mithras, in the most common spelling, equals 360, the value of a year in some places, but several old writers purposefully add an extra “e” to make the name total 365, a more precise reckoning of the solar years. Likewise, says Fideler, the name of every single ones of the Hebrew planetary spirits and intelligences was consciously formulated by someone to bring out the precise number from the appropriate “magic square”.



The most striking example is that of Zeus, having the number 612 - just like Buthas, I may add. The value of Hermes is 353 and that of Apollo is 1061. It was the British writer William Sterling who in 1897 pointed out that the numerical values of these three “numerical gods” relate precisely to one another through the ratio of the square root of 3, i.e. an irrational number, approximately 1.7320508... See Figure 15 in Fideler´s book, p. 71.



I find Sterling´s discovery to be extremely important. It more than suggests that the names of the principal gods were simply made up to achieve certain numbers relating to certain geometrical figures. And what, indeed, remains of the gods if stripped of their names? Nothing - or rather, nothing apart from geometrical figures.

[acharya]

Welcome to the first and only website

devoted to the original Buddhist sources

of the New Testament Gospels





The 27 books of the New Testament, as known, constitute the fundamental holy scripture of Christianity.



Without the four Gospels according to Matthew, to Mark, to Luke and to John, Christianity is virtually null and void.



Recent epoch-making discoveries of old Sanskrit manuscripts in Central Asia and Kashmir provide decisive proof that the four Greek Gospels have been translated directly from the Sanskrit.



A careful comparison, word by word, sentence by sentence, shows that the Christian Gospels are Pirate-copies of the Buddhist Gospels (combined, of course, with words from the OT). God's word, therefore, is originally Buddha's word.



Comparison reveals that there is no person, no event, no locality mentioned in the four Christian Gospels not already present in the Buddhist Gospels that are, for sure, far earlier in time than their Christian copies.





http://www.jesusisbuddha.com/

[dhu]

Thundy at Michigan is not to be trusted. It is an attempt to finish the OT project which was forestalled by Alexander's filure in India. It is no coincidence that Thundy has a paper on the falsity of the the laryngeal theory.

[ramana]

Reply by Brihaspati to my question in BRF:

Bji, Have you thought about the persistent meme in Abraham faiths about the attitude towards women?

.

ramana ji,

my thoughts go along among others -on an Egyptian node in the graph-tree [perhaps ideally it should not be a tree and allow cycles] of gradual corruption of the Indic in the world-history of theology.



In Egypt - the so-called Atenization started during the 18th dynasty. However curious thing is that it is the 18th dynasty which was a revolutionary nationalist revivalist - and it was founded by a woman, a daughter of a possible elite line that survived in middle Egypt after both the north and south fell off to invaders. This remarkable lady actually chose a commoner for a husband, and went to war personally with husband [ and then with sons when the husband died in battle and the first son was also killed - leaving the younger Thuthmoses to wrest back control of whole of Egypt].



The line produced Hatshepsut too - whose memory was systematically chiseled out by her half brother on succession. But 18th dynasty remained intricately linked with poweful royal women who shared ruling with men. This seems to have been the key which soured the future for women in monotheism after the murky post-Akhenaten years when Nefertiti probably compromised with pre-existing theology.



The followers of the new cult saw women as being responsible for all trouble by trying to share the supreme chair of pharaohs - who also were considered divine. Hence the birth of the key theme that the male divine has no female companions! This querred the pitch for "Mose(s)" meaning a generic Egyptian or perhaps even a mixed Canaanite/Israelite+Egyptian parentage. [We can see that there are refs to Mose's non-Israelite wives and that his descendants are not mentioned as the chief priestly class of Judaism - but that of his bro Aaron].

[ramana]

1) All about Egypt-18th dynasty

http://www.all-about-egypt.com/18th-dynasty.html



2) Queen Hatshepsut



http://www.thenagain.info/webchron/afric...epsut.html



3) Understanding the 18th dynasty:



http://www.robotwisdom.com/science/luxor/index.html



4) Ancient Egypt 18th Dynasty pdf:



http://www.oup.com.au/__data/assets/pdf_..._Egypt.pdf

[ramana]

Gary Greenberg, "Judas Brief: Who Really Killed Jesus?"

2007 | ISBN-10: 0826489990 | 296 pages |

The Judas Brief challenges the fundamental Gospel concept that at least some leading Jews played a key role in having Jesus executed. Author Gary Greenberg provides a detailed examination of all Gospel accounts of hostile interaction between Jesus and the Jews, with special attention to the Gospel accounts of the Jewish and Roman trials of Jesus. He then compares these Gospel reports with the historical evidence and reaches some surprising and controversial conclusions, including that: · there was never any organized Jewish hostility to Jesus · the only significant opposition came from Roman authorities · Judas was a close ally of Jesus and represented him in negotiations with the High Priest · the High Priest tried to protect Jesus and his followers from a Roman initiated massacre · Jesus willingly agreed to surrender himself to Pilate as a hostage to insure that his followers remained passive during the holiday · Judas and Caiaphas had expected that Jesus would be released after the holiday · Pilate broke his word and had Jesus executed · Judas committed suicide in grief over the unexpected death of Jesus and the role he had played 'The Judas Brief' is a comprehensive and clearly written account of the many Gospel portrayals of interaction between Jesus and the Jews. It may well provide modern Christian scholars and exegetes with some of the tools necessary to challenge the anti-Semitic reactions that flow from the Gospel accounts of Jewish hostility to Jesus.