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  Pakistan News And Discussion-14
Posted by: Naresh - 11-17-2007, 01:36 AM - Forum: Trash Can - Replies (270)


<b>Viren Ji & Mudy Ji :</b>

This is most definitely genuine!

<b>US envoy should threaten to cut Pakistan aid : Bhutto</b> <!--emo&:clapping--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/clap.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='clap.gif' /><!--endemo-->

<b>LONDON : The United States should threaten to cut aid to Pakistan to press it to restore democracy, opposition leader Benazir Bhutto said Friday before a meeting between a US envoy and President Pervez Musharraf.</b>

But in an interview with Britain's news television she voiced doubt about an immediate cut in US assistance to the country.

"I would like to see aid used as a leverage to influence General Musharraf as well as the armed forces. They're benefiting from the immense international assistance that is coming into Pakistan," she said.

"The signal that Mr. Negroponte should give is that this aid could stop," she said. But she added: "I'm unsure whether we should straight away stop that aid because sometimes getting aid restarted is difficult, and I think Pakistan needs that aid.

"Our people need that aid, but they need that aid coming to the people. It hasn't come to the people in the past." <!--emo&:flush--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/Flush.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='Flush.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Cheers <!--emo&:beer--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/cheers.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='cheers.gif' /><!--endemo-->


  Happy Diwali
Posted by: Guest - 11-07-2007, 07:58 PM - Forum: Trash Can - Replies (17)

Greetings to everyone on Dhanvantari Trayodashi / Dhan Teras. May Lord Dhanvantari, Kuber, Yama and Ma Lakshami bless one and all.


  Vimana Shastra And Maya Civilization
Posted by: acharya - 11-02-2007, 02:14 AM - Forum: Indian Culture - Replies (26)

<img src='http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_tierrahueca/L_Vril1-01.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/imagenes_tierrahueca/L_Vril8-Odin-01-MED.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />


  Mahatma Gandhi's Ideology
Posted by: ramana - 11-01-2007, 11:24 PM - Forum: Indian Politics - Replies (55)

<!--QuoteBegin-"Stan_Savljevic"+-->QUOTE("Stan_Savljevic")<!--QuoteEBegin-->ramana, send me an email at sav_stan@yahoo.com  if u need the pdf

<!--QuoteBegin-"ramana"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("ramana")<!--QuoteEBegin-->Try to get the Jurgenmeyer article on Gandhi
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/toc/daed/136/1<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Immediately after the September 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, the idea of taking a nonviolent stance in response to terrorism would have been dismissed out of hand. But now, after the invasion and occupation of two Muslim countries by the U.S. military, the loss of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent Afghanis and Iraqis, and the start of a global jihadi war that seems unending, virtually any alternative seems worth considering. It is in this context that various forms of less militant response, including the methods of conflict resolution adopted by India's nationalist leader, Mohandas Gandhi, deserve a second look.

Like us, Gandhi had to deal with terrorism, and his responses show that he was a tough-minded realist. I say this knowing that this image of Gandhi is quite different from what most Westerners have in mind when they think of him. The popular view in Europe and the United States is the one a circle of Western pacifists writing in the 1920s promoted--the image of Gandhi as a saint.

In a 1921 lecture on "Who is the Greatest Man in the World Today?" John Haynes Holmes, the pastor of New York City's largest liberal congregation, extolled not Lenin or Woodrow Wilson or Sun Yat-sen but someone whom most of the crowd thronging the hall that day had never heard of--Mohandas Gandhi. (1) Holmes, who was later credited with being the West's discoverer of Gandhi, described him as his "seer and saint." (2)

In fact, the term 'Mahatma,' or 'great soul,' which is often appended to Gandhi's name, probably came not from admirers in India but from the West. Before the Indian philosopher Rabindranath Tagore used the term in his letter welcoming Gandhi to India in 1914, members of an American and European mystical movement, the Theosophists, had applied this name to Gandhi. Most likely, they were the ones who conveyed it to Tagore, and since then the term has persisted, even though it was Westerners rather than Indians who first regarded Gandhi in such a saintly mien.

In India, Gandhi was seen as a nationalist leader who, though greatly revered, was very much a politician. Though Gandhi was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize on several occasions, the selection committee hesitated, thinking that the choice of an activist rather than an idealist would stoke political controversies. Gandhi was indeed in the midst of political battle, and in the process he had to address the violence of both his side and the opponents, acts that looked very much like the terrorism of today.

India was on the verge of a violent confrontation with Britain when, in 1915, Gandhi was brought into India's independence movement from South Africa, where as a lawyer he had been a leader in the struggle for social equality for immigrant Indians. In India, as in South Africa, the British had overwhelming military superiority and were not afraid to use it. In 1919, in the North Indian city of Amritsar, an irate British brigadier-general slaughtered almost four hundred Indians who had come to the plaza of Jallianwala Bagh to protest peacefully.

But the nationalist side was countering with violence of its own. In Bengal, Sub-has Chandra Bose organized an Indian National Army, and, in Punjab, leaders of the Ghadar movement--supported by immigrant Punjabis in California--plotted a violent revolution that anticipated boatloads of weapons and revolutionaries transported to India from the United States. These Indian anarchists and militant Hindi nationalists saw violence as the only solution to break the power of the British over India.

Gandhi's views about violent struggle were sharpened in response to Indian activists who had defended a terrorist attack on a British official. The incident occurred in London in 1909, shortly before Gandhi arrived there to lobby the British Parliament on behalf of South African Indian immigrants. An Indian student in London, Madan Lal Dhingra, had attacked an official in Britain's India office, Sir William H. Curzon-Wylie, in protest against Britain's colonial control over India. At a formal function, Dhingra pulled out a gun and, at close range, fired five shots in his face. The British official died on the spot. Dhingra was immediately apprehended by the police; when people in the crowd called him a murderer, he said that he was only fighting for India's freedom.

Several weeks after Gandhi arrived in London, he was asked to debate this issue of violence with several of London's expatriate Indian nationalists. His chief opponent was Vinayak Savarkar, a militant Hindu who would later found the political movement known as the Hindu Mahasabha, a precursor to the present-day Hindu nationalist party, the Bharatiya Janata Party. At the time of the 1909 assassination Savarkar was reputed to have supplied the weapons and ammunition for the act, and to have instructed the ardent Hindu assassin in what to say in his final statement as he was led to the gallows. The young killer said that he was "prepared to die, glorying in martyrdom." (3)

Shortly before the debate, Gandhi wrote to a friend that in London he had met practically no Indian who believed "India can ever become free without resorting to violence." (4) He described the position of the militant activists as one in which terrorism would precede a general revolution: Their plans were first to "assassinate a few Englishmen and strike terror," after which "a few men who will have been armed will fight openly." Then, they calculated, eventually they might have to lose "a quarter of a million men, more or less," but the militant Indian nationalists thought this effort at guerilla warfare would "defeat the English" and "regain our land." (5)

During the debate, Gandhi challenged the logic of the militants on the grounds of political realism. They could hardly expect to defeat the might of the British military through sporadic acts of terrorism and guerilla warfare. More important, however, was the effect that violent tactics would have on the emerging Indian nationalist movement. He feared that the methods they used to combat the British would become part of India's national character.

Several weeks later Gandhi was still thinking about these things as he boarded a steamship to return to South Africa. He penned his response to the Indian activists in London in the form of a book. In a preliminary way, this essay, which Gandhi wrote hurriedly on the boat to Durban in 1909 (writing first with one hand and then the other to avoid getting cramps), set forth an approach to conflict resolution that he would pursue the rest of his life. The book, Hind Swaraj, or, Indian Home Rule, went to some lengths to describe both the goals of India's emerging independence movement and the appropriate methods to achieve it. He agreed with the Indian radicals in London that Britain should have no place in ruling India and exploiting its economy. Moreover, he thought that India should not try to emulate the materialism of Western civilization, which he described as a kind of "sickness."

The thrust of the book, however, was to counter terrorism. Gandhi sketched out a nonviolent approach, beginning with an examination of the nature of conflict. He insisted on looking beyond a specific clash between individuals to the larger issues for which they were fighting. Every conflict, Gandhi reasoned, was a contestation on two levels--between persons and between principles. Behind every fighter was the issue for which the fighter was fighting. Every fight, Gandhi explained in a later essay, was on some level an encounter between differing "angles of vision" illuminating the same truth. (6)

It was this difference in positions--sometimes even in worldviews--that needed to be resolved in order for a fight to be finished and the fighters reconciled. In that sense Gandhi's methods were more than a way of confronting an enemy; they were a way of dealing with conflict itself. For this reason he grew unhappy with the label, 'passive resistance,' that had been attached to the methods used by his protest movement in South Africa. There was nothing passive about it--in fact, Gandhi had led the movement into stormy confrontations with government authorities--and it was more than just resistance. It was also a way of searching for what was right and standing up for it, of speaking truth to power.

In 1906 Gandhi decided to find a new term for his method of engaging in conflict. He invited readers of his journal, Indian Opinion, to offer suggestions, and he offered a book prize for the winning entry. The one that most intrigued him came from his own cousin, Maganlal, which Gandhi refined into the term, satyagraha. The neologism is a conjunct of two Sanskrit words, satya, 'truth,' and agraha, 'to grasp firmly.' Hence it could be translated as 'grasping onto truth,' or as Gandhi liked to call it, "truth force."

What Gandhi found appealing about the winning phrase was its focus on truth. Gandhi reasoned that no one possesses a complete view of it. The very existence of a conflict indicates a deep difference over what is right. The first task of a conflict, then, is to try to see the conflict from both sides of an issue. This requires an effort to understand an opponent's position as well as one's own--or, as former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara advised in the documentary film The Fog of War, "Empathize with the enemy."

The ability to cast an empathetic eye was central to Gandhi's view of conflict. It made it possible to imagine a solution that both sides could accept, at least in part--though Gandhi also recognized that sometimes the other side had very little worth respecting. In his campaign for the British to 'quit India,' for instance, he regarded the only righteous place for the British to be was Britain. Yet at the same time he openly appreciated the many positive things that British rule had brought to the Indian subcontinent, from roads to administrative offices.

After a solution was imagined, the second stage of a struggle was to achieve it. This meant fighting--but in a way that was consistent with the solution itself. Gandhi adamantly rejected the notion that the goal justifies the means. Gandhi argued that the ends and the means were ultimately the same. If you fought violently you would establish a pattern of violence that would be part of any solution to the conflict, no matter how noble it was supposed to be. Even if terrorists were successful in ousting the British from India, Gandhi asked, "Who will then rule in their place?" His answer was that it would be the ones who had killed in order to liberate India, adding, "India can gain nothing from the rule of murderers." (7)

A struggle could be forceful--often it would begin with a demonstration and "a refusal to cooperate with anything humiliating." But it could not be violent, Gandhi reasoned, for these destructive means would negate any positive benefits of a struggle's victory. If a fight is waged in the right way it could enlarge one's vision of the truth and enhance one's character in the process. What Gandhi disdained was the notion that one had to stoop to the lowest levels of human demeanor in fighting for something worthwhile.

This brings us to the way that Gandhi would respond to terrorism. To begin with, Gandhi insisted on some kind of response. He never recommended doing nothing at all. "Inaction at a time of conflagration is inexcusable," he once wrote. (8) He regarded cowardice as beneath contempt. Fighting--if it is nonviolent--is "never demoralizing," Gandhi said, while "cowardice always is." (9) And perhaps Gandhi's most memorable statement against a tepid response: "Where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence." (10)

Occasionally violence does indeed seem to be the only response available. Gandhi provided some examples. One was the mad dog. On confronting a dog with rabies, one must stop it by any means possible, including maiming or killing it. (11) Another case that Gandhi offered was a brutal rapist caught in the act. To do nothing in that situation, Gandhi said, makes the observer "a partner in violence." Hence violence could be used to counter it. Gandhi thus concluded, "Heroic violence is less sinful than cowardly nonviolence." (12)

By extension, one could imagine Gandhi justifying an act of violence to halt an act of terrorism in progress. If Gandhi had been sitting next to the suicide bomber in the London subway during the 2005 attack, for instance, he would have been justified in wrestling the man to the floor and subduing him. If no other means were available than a physical assault--even one that led to the man's death--it would have been preferable to the awful event that transpired when the bomb exploded.

Responding to terrorism after the fact, however, is quite a different matter. What Gandhi argued in Hind Swaraj was that violence never works as a response to violence. It usually generates more violence as a result, and precipitates a seemingly endless litany of tit-for-tat militant engagements.

Gandhi was adamantly opposed to the political positions that justified terrorism, but he was remarkably lenient toward the terrorists themselves. In the case of the assassination that occurred when Gandhi was in London in 1909, he did not blame Dhingra, the assassin of Curzon-Wyllie. He said that Dhingra as a person was not the main problem. Rather, Gandhi said, he was like a drunkard, in the grip of "a mad idea." (13)

The difficulty was the "mad idea," not the terrorists. Though he might have justified killing them if he had caught them in the act, after their tragic mission was over, Gandhi's attitude toward those who carried out terrorist acts was more of pity than of revenge. He would not let them go free, of course, but he treated them as misguided soldiers rather than as monsters.

Moreover, Gandhi thought it quite possible that the ideas for which the violent activists were fighting could be worthy ones. In the case of Dhingra and the Indian militants in 1909, for instance, they were championing a cause that Gandhi himself affirmed. Hence it would be an enormous mistake--foolish, from a Gandhian point of view--to fixate on terrorist acts solely as deviant behavior without taking seriously the causes for which these passionate soldiers were laboring.

A Gandhian strategy for confronting terrorism, therefore, would consist of the following:

Stop an act of violence in its tracks. The effort to do so should be nonviolent but forceful. Gandhi made a distinction between detentive force--the use of physical control in order to halt violence in progress--and coercive force. The latter is meant to intimidate and destroy, and hinders a Gandhian fight aimed at a resolution of principles at stake.

Address the issues behind the terrorism. To focus solely on acts of terrorism, Gandhi argued, would be like being concerned with weapons in an effort to stop the spread of racial hatred. Gandhi thought the sensible approach would be to confront the ideas and alleviate the conditions that motivated people to undertake such desperate operations in the first place.

Maintain the moral high ground. A bellicose stance, Gandhi thought, debased those who adopted it. A violent posture adopted by public authorities could lead to a civil order based on coercion. For this reason Gandhi insisted on means consistent with the moral goals of those engaged in the conflict.

These are worthy principles, but do they work? This question is often raised about nonviolent methods as a response to terrorism--as if the violent ones have been so effective. In Israel, a harsh response to Palestinian violence has often led to a surge of support for Hamas and an increase in terrorist violence. The U.S. responses to jihadi movements after the September 11 attacks have not diminished support for the movements nor reduced the number of terrorist incidents worldwide. Militant responses to terrorism do not possess a particularly good record of success.

Yet there is a recent example of a successful end to terrorism that was forged through nonviolent means. This is the case of Northern Ireland, a region plagued by violence for decades.

The troubles of Northern Ireland could be traced back to the British establishment of the Ulster Plantation in 1610, though the most recent round of violence began after a free Irish state was established in 1921. Catholics in the Northern Ireland counties felt marginalized in what they claimed to be Irish territory. Protestants feared they would become overwhelmed and banished from what they regarded as a part of Britain.

Violence erupted in the summer of 1969 in the Bogside area of the city of Londonderry. Following the clash, Protestants revived an old militia, the Ulster Volunteer Force, and militant Catholics created a 'provisional' version of the Irish Republican Army that would be more militant than the old IRA.

In 1971, Northern Ireland officials adopted a preemptive stance and began rounding up Catholic activists whom they regarded as potential terrorists. The activists were detained without charges. Within hours, rioting and shooting broke out in the Catholic neighborhoods of Belfast and adjacent towns. The government, rather than retreating from its hard line, pressed on, declaring a war against terrorism. The suspects were beaten and tortured in an attempt to elicit information. They were forced to lie spread-eagle on the floor with hoods over their heads, and subjected to disorienting electronic sounds.

The government's attempt to end the violence by harshly treating those it suspected of perpetrating violence backfired. The Catholic community united solidly behind the insurgency, and the violence mounted. Later the Home Minister who sanctioned the crackdown admitted that the hard-line approach was "by almost universal consent an unmitigated disaster."

The violence of the early 1970s came to a head on what came to be called 'Bloody Sunday,' when a peaceful protest march against the internment of Catholic activists turned ugly. British troops fired on the crowd, killing thirteen.

For over twenty years the violence continued. Tit-for-tat acts of terrorism became a routine affair. The British embassy in Dublin was burned, British soldiers were attacked, police stations were bombed, and individual Catholics and Protestants were captured by opposing sides and sometimes hideously tortured and killed.

In 1988 an internal dialogue began to take place within the Catholic side between a moderate leader, John Hume, and the activist leader, Gerry Adams. In 1995, former U.S. Senator George Mitchell was invited to Northern Ireland to help broker the peace talks. Initially they were unsuccessful, but then Mitchell returned for eight months of intensive negotiations. The talks involved members of Irish and British governments and eight political parties on both Catholic and Protestant sides of the Northern Irish divide. They reached an agreement on April 10, 1998--a day that happened to be Good Friday, the Christian holiday that precedes Easter.

The Good Friday Agreement is a remarkable document. It attempted to provide structural resolutions to several different problems at the same time. To respond to the public mistrust and insecurity brought on by years of violence, the Agreement set up Human Rights and Equality Commissions. It called for an early release of political prisoners, required the decommissioning of paramilitary weapons, prescribed reforms of the criminal justice system and the policies of police, and supplied funds to help the victims of violence. It also addressed the problem of balanced governance by setting up a parliament with proportional representation, an executive branch that guaranteed representation from both communities, and a consultative Civic Forum that allowed for community concerns to be expressed directly from the people. The Agreement also dealt with relations among the three key states involved--Ireland, Great Britain, and Northern Ireland--by establishing several councils and mediating bodies.

Prior to the Agreement, the British government and the paramilitary forces on both the Unionist and IRA sides had found themselves in a situation similar to many violent confrontations. Their positions had been staked out in extreme and uncompromising terms, and the methods used by all sides were so harsh as to be virtually unforgivable. Ultimately they were able to break through this impasse by employing several basic nonviolent techniques:

Seeing the other side's point of view. When the British began to open lines of communication to the radical leaders on both sides, they began to break through the 'we-they' attitude that vexes most hostile confrontations.

Not responding to violence in kind. A series of ceasefires--including unilateral ceasefires by the IRA--were critical in helping to break the spiral of violence. Even as severe an incident as the Omagh terrorist bombing on August 15, 1998, did not elicit retaliatory attacks.

Letting moderate voices surface. Once the spiral of violence had been broken, and both sides no longer felt under siege, there was room for moderate voices to surface within the warring camps.

Isolating radical voices. The peace negotiators did not try to change what could not be changed. Hence they did not waste time in trying to reason with the militant Protestant leader, Reverend Ian Paisley, who had opted out of the process.

Setting up channels of communication. They involved an outsider--Senator Mitchell--to play a mediating role, and set up impartial frameworks of communication for the two sides, which had been deeply mistrustful of one another.

Peace in Northern Ireland was not inevitable, and there is no assurance that the agreement will last forever. Violence may again return to that troubled area of Ireland. Yet for a time the bombs have been silenced. At least in one case in recent political history terrorism has come to an end--through nonviolent means.

It is reasonable to ask whether the approach taken in Northern Ireland could work in other situations. Could it work in Kashmir, for instance, a region that is also claimed by two religious communities backed by powerful governments? It would not take a huge stretch of imagination to think that India and Pakistan could join in a settlement surprisingly similar to the Good Friday Agreement. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is more complex, but like Northern Ireland it is essentially a conflict over territory in which both sides have a moral and political claim. Since the Oslo Agreement in 1993 a negotiated settlement in the region has seemed a realistic though still elusive possibility.

But what about the global jihadi war? This is the global conflict that President George W. Bush designated "the war on terror" shortly after September 11, 2001, and relabeled "the struggle against radical Islam" in July 2005. Osama bin Laden enunciated his own proclamation of this war in a fatwa against the United States in 1996. Bin Laden called on Muslims to join him in "correcting what had happened to the Islamic world in general" since the end of the Ottoman Empire. The aim, according to bin Laden, was "to return to the people their own rights, particularly after the large damages and the great aggression on the life and the religion of the people." (14)

Groups sharing an Al Qaeda perspective have attacked the very centers of Western power in New York, Madrid, and London, but their struggle is not in any simple sense about territory. It is a war without a frontline and without clear geographic lines of control. On the jihadi side it is a war without a conventional army and without the apparatus of a political state. For that matter, the jihadi movement seems to be without much centralized control at all.

With no one clearly in charge, negotiation is a difficult affair. It is unlikely that U.S. officials would hike into the mountains of Pakistan to chat with bin Laden, if indeed he could be found. And even if there were such conversations, what would be the point? He has no real control over the policies of the Middle East and is in no position to negotiate a settlement of the underlying issues of Western influence that his fatwa describes. To acknowledge bin Laden as a representative of the Muslim people would be to magnify his importance and reward his terrorism with political legitimacy. The United States has already exaggerated his importance--and unwittingly enlarged his support within the Muslim world--by singling him out as the global enemy of the United States. Negotiations with renegade extremists like bin Laden would not achieve any changes in underlying policy positions that would lessen tensions in the Middle East.

Behind the jihadi war is a conflict between ideas and worldviews. In saying this I do not mean to belittle the importance of the struggle, for ideas can have enormous power. But because the contest is between differing ways of perceiving the world and the relationship between political and moral order, the struggle has had a remarkably moralistic tone. The enemies are not really individuals as much as they are ways of thinking.

Both sides define their goal as freedom. On one side it is the liberty to choose a nation's own officials through democratic elections. On the other side it is liberation from outside influence and control. On both sides these positions have been magnified into a moral contest of such proportions that it has become a sacred struggle. The enemies have become cosmic foes. Large numbers of innocent people have been killed with moral indifference--or worse, with the self-righteous thinking that God is on one's side.

Is a nonviolent approach to conflict resolution relevant to the global jihadi war? Consider the guidelines that Gandhi enunciated in response to the terrorism of the Indian activists in London in 1909. They might be applied to the current situation in the following way:

Stop a situation of violence in its tracks. The first rule of nonviolence is to stop an act of violence as it occurs--or better, to prevent it before it happens. Gandhi would have approved of efforts to capture those involved in acts of terrorism and bring them to justice, and he would have applauded attempts to ward off future terrorist assaults through the legal forms of surveillance and detection that have been adopted after September 11. Even those measures that seem to be aimed only at giving the appearance of security have a certain utility, since they diminish the prime effects of terrorism--fear and intimidation. But even though Gandhi occasionally supported military action, including the British defense against Hitler in World War II, it is doubtful that he would have accepted large-scale military operations as a response to terrorist acts, especially if they left large numbers of casualties in their wake. Nor would he have approved of changes in the legal system that would deprive the public of its rights.

Address the issues behind the violence. The crucial part of nonviolent resolution is to look behind the violence at the issues that are at stake. Gandhi's goal was to form a resolution with the best features of both sides of a dispute. In the case of the global jihadi war, this would mean affirming the positive principles of both sides--though the 'sides' in this case are not only state and non-state organizations but also the concerned publics that stand behind them. Gandhi might have approved of the principles of both sides: the desire of many traditional Muslims in the Middle East to be free from American and European domination, and the expectation of those who hold modern social values that all societies should respect peoples of diverse cultures and be democratically governed. Since these goals are not necessarily incompatible, a resolution that accepts them both is conceivable.

Ultimately, tensions might not be fully resolved until there are significant changes in the political culture of Middle Eastern countries and dramatic reversals of the West's military and economic role in the Middle East. But in the meantime small steps can make a large difference. Any indication that either or both sides accept both sets of principles would be a positive shift toward reconciling the underlying differences and diminishing the support for extremists' positions.

Maintain the moral high ground. As Gandhi remarked to the Indian activists in London who proposed a violent overthrow of British control of India, violence begets violence. Proclaiming a 'war on terrorism,' from Gandhi's point of view, is tantamount to sinking to the terrorists' level. The very idea of war suggests an absolutism of conflict, where reason and negotiation have no place and where opponents are enemies. Though violent extremists are indeed difficult opponents, and Gandhi would not expect one to negotiate with them, he would be mindful that the more important struggle is the one for public support. This support could shift either way, and it would be a tragic error--and perhaps a self-fulfilling prophecy--to regard potential supporters as enemies.

Mistreatment of those suspected of being involved in terrorist acts can also lead to a loss of public support. Gandhi urged that the assassin, Dhingra, be treated with caution but also with respect, as any suspect in a crime would be treated. Torture, from Gandhi's point of view, is ineffective not just because it rarely produces useful information but also because it corrupts the moral character of a society that allows it to be used. This was the point he made in Hind Swaraj when he stressed that the means of freeing India from British control should be consistent with the goals a free Indian society would want to achieve.

Many of these guidelines have been part of the public debate in the United States in the years following the September 11 attacks. Thus a nonviolent response to terrorism is already an element of political discourse. It is not a new idea, but rather a strand of public thinking that deserves attention and, Gandhi might argue, respect. As a pragmatic idealist, Gandhi would be pleased to know that nonviolent approaches to terrorism were taken seriously, not only because they invariably were the right thing to do, but also because on more than one occasion they have worked.

Mark Juergensmeyer is professor of sociology and global studies and director of the Orfalea Center for Global and International Studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He is the author of numerous publications, including "The New Cold War?" (1993), "Terror in the Mind of God" (revised edition, 2003), and "Gandhi's Way" (revised edition, 2005).

1 John Haynes Holmes, "Who is the Greatest Man in the World Today?" a pamphlet published in 1921 and reprinted in Charles Chat-field, ed., The Americanization of Gandhi: Images of the Mahatma (New York and London: Garland Publishing, 1976), 98.

2 John Haynes Holmes, My Gandhi (New York: Harper and Brothers, 1953), 9.

3 Indian Sociologist, September 1909, quoted in James D. Hunt, Gandhi in London (New Delhi: Promilla and Co., Publishers, 1973), 134. My thanks to Lloyd Rudolph for reminding me of this incident.

4 Gandhi's letter to Ampthill, October 30, in Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, vol. 9 (Delhi: Publications Division, Ministry of Information and Broadcasting, Government of India, 1958), 509.

5 Mohandas Gandhi, Hind Swaraj, or, Indian Home Rule, 2nd ed. (Ahmedabad, India: Navajivan Publishing House, 1938; originally published in 1910), 69.

6 Gandhi, writing in Young India, September 23, 1926. I explore Gandhi's ideas further in my book, Gandhi's Way: A Handbook of Conflict Resolution, rev. ed. (Berkeley: University of California Press, 2005).

7 Indian Sociologist, September 1909, quoted in Hunt, Gandhi in London, 134.

8 Harijan, April 7, 1946.

9 Young India, October 31, 1929.

10 Young India, August 11, 1920.

11 Gandhi, Collected Works, vol. 14, 505.

12 Gandhi, Collected Works, vol. 51, 17.

13 Indian Sociologist, September 1909, quoted in Hunt, Gandhi in London, 134.

14 Osama bin Laden, "Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places," first published in Arabic in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, August 1996.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I plan to post the pdf of "Hind Swaraj" which preceded Edward Said's Orientalism by ~ fifty years.


  Transformed Heritags Sites
Posted by: Guest - 10-30-2007, 01:25 AM - Forum: Indian Culture - No Replies

i want to know the details of temples in tamilnadu that has undergone a transformation before 1950.. for instance a hindu temple demolished and reconstructed as a mosque or similar such transformauions.


  Pakistan News And Discussion-13
Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha - 10-18-2007, 03:11 AM - Forum: Trash Can - Replies (242)

USA allowed Pakistan to get the N-bomb

Why did the Neo-cons do this?
Because they wanted to balance India. The west is not going to tell you this.


  ***urgent*** Rama Setu - Petions Invited
Posted by: Guest - 10-12-2007, 11:39 AM - Forum: Trash Can - Replies (4)

An SSCP Review Committee has been set up by GOI, as per its commitment given to the Supreme Court of India, in the fallout of blasphemous ASI affidavit. The charter of the committee is to hear from all the people and organizations, that feel they are concerned with the issue, review the entire SSCP issue in that light, and prepare a report to GOI, and via them to the Supreme Court.

The whole effort, in my opinion is an eye wash by UPA, to buy more time, and see the state elections in Guj and Himachal through, without allowing Rama Setu and ASI affidavit to become an election issue.

The above pessimism is confirmed by how the committee is constituted. People they have included and those they have avoided. While I don't know many, but those that I know, are definitely anti-Hindu and leftists. At the same time they have not included anyone known for any knowledge in the background of Setu or SSCP. They have not included any archaelogist - active or retired, they have not included any expert on religios matters, any defence/naval expert, any expert on strategic security or energy, have not included any known economist or industrialist, etc.

(members are requested to share if they have info on these committee members. see news article below)

But anyways, the purpose my creating this post was different.

The commitee has published an advertisement, inviting written petitions from general public and any organization that wants to make any objection to the project, or this alignment of the project, etc.

In this regard, <b>can we explore the possibility of sending a petition from India Forum side?</b> That is if members agree.

<b>I also would urge all the members to send individiual petitions from their own personal side too. More the better. Also please inform each and every person, that you know should be concerned with this, and storm the committee with thousands of thousands of petitions. Let this be no lukewarm response, that they can site in the court as such, translating into general public not being concerned with the issue.</b>

Member opinions?

Viren Ji, Mudy Ji, would you please take lead? I can provide some sample strawman content if needed. See some of the protest letters that some visitors to that blog had written are pasted below.

Here is the news report about it:

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sethusamudram project committee meets
Thursday, October 11, 2007

New Delhi, Oct 11 (ANI): The committee of eminent persons constituted by the Centre to look into the Sethusamudram Shipping Channel Project held its first meeting here today.All the members of the committee were present in today's meeting.The Government has sought three months time from the Supreme Court to examine the Sethusamudram project.The Committee has invited objections and suggestions, including from the writ petitioners in the cases in the Supreme Court, on the project.It will then consider suggestions, proposals and documents after giving them a personal hearing. ...

The ten-member committee constituted to look into the matter is headed by

University of Madras Vice-Chancellor Prof. S. Ramachandran, who is also the Chairman of Monitoring Committee on Environmental Impact Issues.

The committee comprises of
Prof. R S Sharma, former Professor of History at the Delhi University;
Dr. M. Sakthivel, Aqua Culture Foundation of India President ;
Prof. Dilip K. Biswas, former Chairman of the Central Pollution Control Board;
Dr. J.R.B. Alfred, former Director of Zoological Survey of India, Kolkata,
Dr. S.R. Wate, Deputy Director of the National Environmental Engineering Research Institute (NEERI), Nagpur,
Prof. P. Jagadeesan, former Vice-Chancellor of the Bharatidasan University,
Tamil Nadu
Prof. Y. Vaikuntham, former Vice-Chancellor of the Kakatiya University, Andhra Pradesh;
Dr. K. Paddayya, Director of the Deccan College, Pune
R K Jain, Managing Director of the Indian Ports Association

The committee held detailed deliberation on the matter today. It has decided to invite objections and suggestions

<span style='color:red'>by 5 p.m. on October 31 </span>

addressed to
<span style='color:red'>
Sethu Samudram Project Review Committee
Dr. Ambedkar Law University,
Post Graduate and Research Development Block,
"Poompozhil",
5, Greenways Road,
Chennai - 600 028.</span>

The committee will give a personal hearing from October 29 to November 6 (on all days including holidays).The period from November 4-6 has been kept for giving personal hearing to the petitioners.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

some petitions and letters, visitors of ramasetu blog wrote are repreoduced here:


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->To:
Dr. Manmohan Singh Ji,
Honorable Prime Minister of Bharat

Dear Dr. Singh,

As a citizen of Bharat, and a Hindu, I write this e-mail, in hopes that you would pay some consideration to this appeal.

Rama Setu (or Adam's Bridge as your honorable cabinet colleagues prefer to call it) is a very significant matter of faith and religious belief for millions of Hindus. Indeed, Sri Rama Setu is as significant as Mount Kailasha, spiritually.

I understand that Ministry of Shiping and Road Transport is fiercely spearheading Sethusamudram project, with a design that dredges and damages the Setu. I have also seen news reports and gone through the records of the honorable Parliament to verify that various cabinet colleagues of yours (Mr. T R Baalu, Ms. Ambika Soni, and Mr. Kapil Sibal) have repeatedly assaulted this religious belief of Hindus by claiming that, 'there is no Rama Setu. Those who say there is, prove it scientifically'.

This line taken by your colleagues is the most preposterous stand possible. It is similar to saying:

"Before revering Kabaa, first prove scientifically that Kaba is really that place where God appeared before Abraham / Moses." OR "Before believing in the divinity of Jesus Christ, it must be first proved archaeologcally that he existed, was born of the virgin mother, was crucified and then resurrected"

All of the above are plain absurd. Kaaba IS a holy site, whether the historicity can be proved or not. Jesus Christ IS to be worshipped, irrespective of his historicity.

Likewise Setu is a respected and revered site of Hindus, period.

This stand that your government is unfortunately taking is simply absurd, because the question here is not whether the bridge is man-made or nature-made, or investigating the proofs of Rama Setu. Simple fact is that the people in tradition over ages have been and are revering Setu, which makes it a holy site for them - man made or natural.

Therefore, Dr. Singh Ji,

I earnestly appeal to your conscience, to:

1. Kindly restrain your colleagues from bashing the Hindus' faith
2. Kindly Stop dredging the Setu area
3. Please amicably find a solution which all would agree to.

Jay Hind!

Thank you,
XXX
USA
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sridharan Hariharan (sridharan.x.hariharan@..) wrote:

To: President Of India

Respected Sir,

I do appreciate your broad mindlessness when you proudly ask every youth of India to read Bhagavad Gita as the teachings of Gita is Universal. Similarly, I pray now to you to intervene and show mercy on the inanimate stone structure that keeps strengthening the faith of every Hindu or Non-Hindu who believe in the History of Rama. You have the highest authority to bring a man back from the noose of Yama and forgive the sinful acts of that culprits; Why not extend the same mercy to the age old man made structure that lies deep in the sea very close to Rameshwaram and Ramanathapuram.

I have faith in Lord Rama and the Almighty God.

Please help everyone to follow the message - HELP EVER; HURT NEVER.

Thanks,

Sridharan Hariharan
Houston, TX, USA
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Raksha Aggarwal (raksha.aggarwal@..) wrote:

it is with disgust i write and protest at the proposed construction of the channel. the alternate paths given can be considered.

raksha aggarwal-- kenya
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->V. Manikandan Mani (vmanis78@..) wrote:


Sir / Madam,

RAM SETU , belived to be built by LORD SHRI RAMA 17 Lac 25 thousand years ago.

Without any evidence all these 17 lac 25 thousand years we believe that there is a bridge built by Shri Rama to Save Sita from Ravana,King of Lanka.

Today we have got a SOLID PROOF that " A BRIDGE EXIST BETWEEN DHANUSKODI TO SRILANKA" by looking at the SATELITE PHOTOGRAPH released by NASA.

" Those who are trying to break the bridge , not only tries to break the bridge but 17 lac 25 thousand year old belief also "

17 LAC 25 THOUSAND YEAR BELIEF HAS GOT ITS OWN POWER. STILL THIS BELIEF CONTINUES ........

Don't try to destroy the evidence.

At this point of time, the Goverment should investigate more about this bridge and the historical values , rather breaking RAM SETU.

SATYAMEVA JAYATE
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Sunil Patel (suntel@...) wrote:


To,
The Prime Minister of India


Sub : DISMANTLING RAM SETU IS HITLARY DECISION IN INDEPENDENT INDIA.

Most respected Sir,

In reference to the subject, I would like to request you that Ram Setu should not be dismantled.

I am very surprised to hear that Govt. has planned to destroy the Ram Setu. I have read the Chennai Govt. Tamilnadu government gazette that when Rama returned from Lanka he himself destroyed the bridge by shooting it with an arrow".

From last 50 to 100 years back only we have technology to build this types of long huge bridges across the countries. 100 years of before it is not possible. Tajmahal, Piramids etc can be prepared but a bridge from one country to another on sea was impossible mission for humans.

When I believe in Hinduism, I am also believe that only in the period of Ram "Satyoug" construction of bridge can be possible.

If Govt. dont agree the "adams bridge" to be "Ram Setu", than also it can be preserved as an antique, rare historical monument on which India Heritage, culture can be proud.

Dismantling Ramsatu stating that it is not Ram Setu is a ANTI HINDUISM ACT. I strongly condemn it.

I have full hope that you will stop this type of proposal and did not hurt the feelings of crores of Indians.

With respectful regards,
Sunil Patel

http://ramasetu.blogspot.com/2007/03/protest.html
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->


  Herbs And Spices
Posted by: Guest - 10-09-2007, 11:25 AM - Forum: Trash Can - No Replies

What has helped along this diversity is the amazing number of religions and the sects and sub-sects within them; each of them often has strict dietary codes. For example, Hindu Brahmins may not eat onions, ginger and garlic, which meant that a special cuisine came up around that bias and so on.

Various forms of milk products like, curd, cream and paneer (cottage cheese) is used in cooking in the north. In contrast, the south Indians use this sparingly. Instead, they use coconut in almost every dish. Here, it would be apt to mention that even the cooking medium differs as, the north Indians use mustard or vegetable oil, while the south Indians use groundnut or sesame oil. Keralites use coconut oil for almost

A lot of care and thought goes into the preparation of every Indian Food Recipes. A study into recipes reveals a lot of surprises. Every single ingredient of the dish is there with a purpose and compliments each other. In fact, the succession of dishes also keeps in mind the flavour and 'nature' of the spices, whether hot or cool.

Spices and herbs used in Indian cooking are either fresh or dried – in which case the flavour changes for each form. However, that is not all: the dried spices and herbs are used in various ways. They can be used whole or grounded (more often than not still pounded at home!) and they may be roasted, fried, deep-fried, half-done, well done … all according to the taste that the cook wants to give to the eventual dish.

Some of the commonly used ingredients in Indian Food Recipes are: Chilli (hot fiery red or green); Coconut; Garlic; Ginger; Basil, coriander (cilantro), mint and parsley; Fenugreek (methi); Saunf; Garam Masala; Mustard Seeds; Tamarind (Imli); Saffron (Kesar) and Rose water (gulkand).


  Window To Our Culture - Proverbs &amp; Sayings
Posted by: Guest - 09-27-2007, 06:31 AM - Forum: Indian Culture - Replies (23)

Proverbs, phrases and sayings offer one way to peep into our cultural past. Apart from helping us narrate our culture it provides valuable insight into our ancestors' lifestyle and opinions. Let us catalog them here. I propose the following format:

Proverb:
Language:
Translation:
Meaning:
Commentary:

I will start the ball rolling....


  Kaun Banega Next PM
Posted by: Guest - 09-19-2007, 03:44 AM - Forum: Trash Can - Replies (69)

<!--emo&:ind--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/india.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='india.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<span style='font-size:21pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Impact'>Yes, they can.
And here is how:
http://o3.indiatimes.com/kaunbaneganextPM/</span></span>