<!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Optima'><b>PMs or bus conductors
Starting from Gujral who started the 1st bus or perhaps, revived the train from India to Pakistan, followed by Vajpayee who became real bus conductor from Delhi to Lahore and carried on by Manmohan Singh who found a different route of bus conduction between POK and Kashmir and at the same time started had railway guard in the garb of Lalu between Rajasthan and ?Sindh. Will this be the History taught for posterity?

Please join me in

x3 hoots for them.

Jai Hind

Capt Manmohan Kumar </b></span></span>

<!--emo&--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--> <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='font-family:Arial'>When you can't run your non aligned car; the chances of moribund non aligned movement's revival are next to nil. And it has neither relevance nor appropiateness in geopolitics of today. When USA was being actively opposed by erstwhile USSR, NAM might have made some sense but in today's world non alighnment has no meaning whatsoever. As far as India is concerned, we have many better things to do e.g. we have 25% population of world who lives on paltry sum of <$1/day; so, we should be using our resources to bring them above the poverty line. Moreover, there is already UN to take care of such issues as can come up in NAM. There is no need to flog the dead horse like NAM.</span></span>[FONT=Arial][SIZE=7][COLOR=red]

Europe the real originator of the caste system
(hastily posted as a draft)

Introduction
This is an item which should be more explored and projected right in the faces of non-Indian historians, anthropologists, etc. and their Indian admirers and followers. The success of anti-Indian and especially anti-Hindu propaganda lies in the fact that these offenders aren’t hit at their weak spot: the grave criminal expressions of their own systems in every field throughout most of their history! Some of their unique expressions, politically and religiously, have caused mass destructions on mondial levels. In an international court of justice (UNO) record, we would have almost exclusively names of abrahamitic (and their offshoot) criminals.

The foreign missionary and military was aiming at enslavement of the subcontinent through a paralysing indoctrination of Indian culture with their own concepts. The message was that what was good was foreign, and the bad was indigenous, in simple words. The bad had to be saved, to be civilized = christianised after European social model.

But how different was the christianised Anglo-Indian concept from European social realities?
At least from the feudal period on, Europe did know a clear caste system: The elite or lords are the hereditary land owners, which are bishops, kings, warlords and noblemen. Vassals are somewhat the slaves of the land owners. And the elite all claim their authority is from God. Both secular and religious power went hand to hand to completely christianise Europe and to enslave the non-elite. Slavery was normal upto the 12th century in Europe, but serfs tied to lords were still common.
Slavery worldwide was practised by christian and muslim rulers. The colonial powers abolished slavery in the 19th century, officially. But that century old mentality didn’t vanish just in one century from their minds, mouths and manners. Political exploitation was replaced by economical and intellectual through monopolization of the resources.

The world has to de-abrahamiticize in every field, but especially socially, psychologically and academically. Too many words are loaded with abrahamitic sauces of interpretations doing grave injustice to non-abrahamitic origins. Even worse, non-abrahamitic systems are being judged against their discriminatory value system.
One of the crucial words to paralyse India is the word “caste”. But what is its origin?

Casta
Caste is a word which is non-Indian. It is derived from the Portuguese word “casta” = pure, breed, race. It is a word used in the 17th century in India. But the word and use is older:
Spanish casta, race, and Portuguese casta, race, caste. 1555, "a race of men," from L. casto "chaste," from castus "pure, cut off, separated," pp. of carere "to be cut off from" (and related to castrate), from PIE base *kes- "to cut."Application to Hindu social groups picked up in India 17c. from Port. casta "breed, race, caste," earlier casta raca "unmixed race," from the same L. word. (see dictionaries)

Hardly anybody paid attention to tracing the word and use of Casta to other parts of the world: to Latin America. “…by the early 17th Century the castas were being defined. The term castas referred originally to people of mixed ethno racial heritage and was generally derogatory. The Spanish brought a fanatical fascination about race with them when they arrived in the "New World." …. Together, the castas, the Spanish, the Natives, and the Africans formed a rigid caste system that governed the ethno racial and class based hierarchy of New Spain. The Spaniards used their elaborate system of classification to maintain social and political control. "Pure blooded" Spaniards held the top position in their constructed social and racial hierarchy, and Africans were considered most inferior. Members of the mixed classes fit into the hierarchy depending on the quantity of "tainted" blood found in their genealogy.”
http://hemi.nyu.edu/archive/studentwork/co...lson/Casta1.htm

While the system was set aside as the spanish colonies got their independence, it left profound scars in modern Latin American societies. In México up until the present day, Mexicans reject the idea of racism but are highly aware of the skin color, associating it with social status. As a result, most role models in television and media are white.
This is thus the result of the institutionalized system of racial and social stratification and segregation based on a person's heritage.

In short, the word “casta” and its loanword in English known as “caste” cannot be separated from European racial (pure versus mixed) ideas and implementations in societies, typical of the colonial powers. The situation in Latin America is a clear proof that the “caste phenomenon” is an implemented European one, and is racial and discriminatory!
This very early European racial system was transplanted in India and made wrongly as equivalent or similar to the dynamic Jana, GaNa, Gotra and Jati systems. (4 VarNa was already for centuries dead, only being mentioned to make some order, but in reality a theoretical, fossil remnant)

Europe is the birthplace of rigid thinking, speaking and behaving systems, from social behaviour (see the word “etiquette”, prescribing into details how to behave), musical performance (compare Indian to western classical musicians. The stiff body language of western musicians is perfectly expressing the distance they create towards another), psychology (see how they hide their real natural emotions behind curtains of controlled . This is the basis of much western frustration and visits to shrinks), religiously (belief in a punishing christian god; constantly threatening clergy to maintain this image), social castes (elite clearly looking down on others and exploiting them; even christianised the blacks for instance were still slaves, counting less than dogs! How differently did the British treat the Indians, or the Americans and European imperialists in both the Americas treat the native Indians? ), colour issue (western elite is whiter than their non-elites, a clear sign they are using to show that they don’t have to work on fields; the whiteness is emphasized later in the decadent periods with the use of cosmetics; black-white thinking coupled to race theories are introduced and indoctrinated in India through the British controlled educational institutes), political offshoots of “theocracies” (totalitarian rule, fascism, nazism; unknown to non-abrahamitic systems, these do not need to be explained), religion (persecutions, holy wars, burning of witches and blacks, annihilation of tribes, etc.), women status (the woman didn’t have much rights save for giving sons, till the 20th century; till the end of the sixties women in western countries had subordinate positions, totally no high positions in church-business-politics, much under the laws of male christians), missionary zeal (showing no sign of respect for others in any sense, they fanatically, sent by the divine as they want to think, impose their own rigid systems to others), etc.

Conclusion
I do not believe that a westerner can teach India any lesson in any of these matters. He rather should look into the mirror and after feeling deep shame for being a proud follower of this oppressive system, he should be taking some responsibility not to point any finger again at others and show some respect.
No system is perfect, thinking that the own is the best is not harmful, but denigrating the other, which is a clear sign of severe ignorance and bad self reflection (minority complex), has to be condemned and stopped immediately.
The christians and muslims clearly have huge records of grave criminal and murderous activities towards their own co-believers (sectarian wars) against each other (crusades etc.) and more barbaric against other areas outside the pale of their “blessed or promised” lands.

That westerners and their non-westerner followers dominate the academia doesn’t mean that they hold the truth. The word casta and its use socially with political and religious and above all racial flavours were already a practical reality elsewhere, in Latin America with the upper caste Peninsulares or Spanish and Portuguese. The racist theories of northern imperialist Europe, has its origins in southern imperialist Europe. Both are deeply rooted in christianity. Both geographical areas gave birth to fascism (northern had German totalitarian nazism, southern had Italian Mussolini’s and Spanish Franco’s systems).


Thus, standard books and their authors do not give the whole picture and certainly aren't free from the outdated methodologies applied to the study of non-western cultures, languages and their (historical) traditions.


P.S. there are many westerners, including academics, who have do have a balanced view. But they are not the dominant voices.

<b>Where Is Osama Bin Laden? </b>
http://abcnews.go.com/International/stor...569&page=1
<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->"It's like letting the fox guard the chicken coup," said a frustrated U.S. official. "We will never find Osama until the ISI wants us to
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<b>Blasts rock Malegaon; 30 killed, over 100 injured</b><!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Thirty people were killed and 56 were injured in twin blasts in a mosque-cum-graveyard and a market immediately after Friday prayers in communally sensitive Malegaon town of Maharashtra on Friday.

As tension gripped the textile town following the blasts at around 1:45 pm at Bada Kabristan and Mushaira Market in the heart of the town,<b> authorities clamped curfew and deployed state paramilitary force in sensitive areas to maintain law and order.</b>

<b>The blasts took place when a large number of people gathered in the graveyard to offer prayers for their dead relatives on the occasion of 'Shab-e-barat', considered the holiest night under Islam.</b>

The injured have been rushed to the Wadia Hospital and other hospitals in the town while some of the grievously injured were moved to Nasik, about 100km from Malegaon, for treatment, sources said.

A near-stampede broke out immediately after the blasts as devotees, including children, rushed out of the narrow gate in panic with many of them trampling over the dead bodies and those seriously injured.

The whole area was splattered with blood and limbs. The devotees also helped the injured rush to nearby hospitals on every available mode of transport including push carts
<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Is this a Shia - Sunni war?

Admins,

I could not find a thread to discuss various news about the happenings and trends of Indian society, changes to social life style, socio-economic dynamism, movements of living standards and so on.

If there is such a topic, please merge it there.

Thanks

My recommendations:
<!--emo&:argue--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/argue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='argue.gif' /><!--endemo--> Capt Manmohan Kumar
Good points brought forward Karan. Here is what is doable under the circumstances:
1. CRs should be elected on the basis of their performance in representing their views in front of class i.e. to say, whosoever wants to run for the post should present his views and at the end of presentation, voting should take place.
2. Similarly, for posts like GS etc, views have to be presented in front of whole college or university followed by voting and counting and declaration of results.
Blog by Dr. Karan Thakur
Student Politics: Time for Reforms
Student bodies and unions have been in the news for all the wrong reasons of late. The thuggery on display in Ujjain took the life of a professor who was opposing holding student body elections. The intimidation and eventual assault on the professors was covered by the media and one got to see first hand the ugly side of student politics. Student politics came of age in the seventies with many movements demanding rights and for socialist causes. Over the years the ‘student’ in student bodies was replaced with politicians of all colours and hues. With all major national parties having their student bodies, the politicization of student unions is complete. The national parties are using student politics as laboratories to extend their influence and also delve into a young vote bank for electoral gains. They have also in the process inculcated the sterling qualities of politicians – voter intimidation, violent confrontations, booth capturing, horse trading and of course corruption and the use money power.



A case in point is the Delhi University elections, which have been reduced to a farce with candidates each year proclaiming to do the exact same thing in their manifestos year after year. While many may argue that the one year tenure is too little to achieve anything concrete, the question arises that all these years could the student leaders not concentrate on this single issue and get a more workable time frame rather than fight over petty issues? Also, would it not be better if students raised issues on say the right to access the Internet or introducing newer courses etc. rather than indulge in arm-twisting and false promises?



The utter degradation of student politics was not exactly a hidden truth, but recent farcical election campaigns and violence has given it the necessary scrutiny. Student bodies are meant to represent student’s rights; at least that is what they claim. But when issues of student welfare and the very future of students is in question, all student parties are found wanting. During the recent reservation demonstrations, not one student political outfit came out in open support of the movement. It was left for umbrella groups to raise the concerns and demonstrate their angst. The government on its part had appointed former Chief Election Commissioner, J.M Lyngdoh, to propose election reforms for student bodies and statutory regulations on them. Lyngdoh recommended a cut in election spending and bans on posters etc. These steps work well for the election procedure itself, but the essence of the argument lies in what is the role of student politics and bodies in the first place? Is their role to be testing ground for a future in politics? Is it a fast way to grab power and legitimize thuggery? Is it to make the years spent by a student in college fruitful? Or is to voice student rights? To find one answer to that may be naïve, but the answer sure lies somewhere in between. Despite the fact that one may be critical of student bodies one cannot deny their role in a democracy and especially in a democracy involving young people. So one can also argue that the politics of today is now being reflected in the student version of the same as well. What student leaders see on television screens, with mud slinging and chair throwing, they feel is what politics stands for. So in an ironical sense the student leaders behavior is a creation of the politicians themselves.



One would be happy to see mature and reason based student politics but at the same time it is the job of the ‘big’ politicians to show them the way. Surely, one cannot be critical of students and not of the politicians who are pumping money and absurd notions about politics into these leaders. But with the tragic death of Prof. Sabbarwal there is a clarion call for reforming student politics, who does this – the government, the students, or college administration is debatable, but the time has come to rid ourselves of manufacturing goons and criminals in the name of student empowerment.
Views by affected persons and party:
Now a days a planned campaign is going against abvp on the issue of DEATH OF A PROFESSOR in Ujjain..It is attempt to defame us and BJP Government and by and large Sangha Parivar.

The Real Story .......

ABVP is heading and winning in Students' Council Elections all over the state.In the Madhav College,which is traditionally Congres dominated college, ABVP won 16 Class Representatives out of 28 and was heading towards Historical win of G.S. defeating NSUI after long period.
NSUI could not accept this defeat and planned to cancel the Election using GUNDAISM. On that day around 1000 and odd nsui activists and congres party workers gathered at the gates of college and starts disturbing the situation.They pressurised the Faculty In charge of Election Prof. Nath,Prof Sabarwal and one more.They created disturbance and the three faculty members succumed their pressure and cancelled the Election. Rightful Victory of ABVP was denined.
Profs acted in favour of NSUI(Prof.Sabharwal was City President of NSUI few years back) and without any reason cancelled the Election.
ABVP activists Gheraoed Principal, Prof. Nath and Prof. Sabharwal and demanded Election to be restored. State President of ABVP Prof. Shashiranjan Akela brought 16 C.R.s and asked administration to explain the reasons of cancellation of Election to them.
Meanwhile Nsui acted rudely and rough handled prof. Nath. He has filed a case against NSUI and 23 NSUI workers arrested.
Prof. Sabharwal said that he is feeling uneasy (He has undergone Bypass surgery) and went away from the scene of Gherao.When he was going out of college on his scooter a group of students stopped his vehicle and asked not to go out unless Election is not restored.There werehot arguments and rough handling among the mob. Prof. fall on the ground and suffered from injury which proved fatal and died while taken to hospital.
Some Questions raised......

Media has declared that prof is murdered by ABVP activists
Actualy ABVP activists were at the site of Gherao and it is baseless allegation on us. We are not at all involved in this act.It is a bad incidence " Yeh HATYA nahi ek HADSA hai."

Abvp National Secretary Sunil Bansal has demanded C.B.I. Enquiry.

I have been hearing a lot of talks about Fatwa in India. There had been news of trouble making Islamist clerics issuing fatwa frequently.

I have a scenario. Say a hate monger cleric XYZ declares a fatwa that Mr. ABC must be killed. Now, some bozo Islamist acts on the fatwa issued by XYZ and kills Mr. ABC. Then what?

Can the family of Mr. ABC sue XYZ for his actions that lead to Mr ABC’s death?

The reason I am asking this question is because India is a dhimmi country. As such, I am not even sure what the laws in India are when it comes to enforcing them on moslems.

I hope we can all learn a few legal stuffs from this thread.

Varanasi sadhus undertake Vande Mataram yatra to usher Jan Chetna<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->Varanasi, Aug.29 (ANI): The controversy over the recital of the national song is yet to be resolved as evident from the sadhus in Varanasi who organised a Janchetna Yatra on Monday to encourage the singing of the national song.

The sadhus took out a march in the city of Ganges, singing Vande Mataram all through the way. Many people later joined the march and also sang the same. They insisted that the recital of the national song, which laid the foundation of our freedom struggle, can not be withdrawn from its old status as it reflected nation's true identity.

"We want to say that Vande Mataram being the national song, it deserves an important place and the one who denies doing so can not be a true nationalist," said Arun Pathak, President, Kranti Shiv Sena.

Criticising the opposition to sing the national song, Swami Narendranath one of the Sadhus said that reckoning the essence of true patriotism in the song, religious bigotry should be shunned.

"We want the people to come out of factionalism and realise the true spirit of this song. It evolves within itself several meanings and one should be free to accept the radical things instead of being stubborn," said Swami Narendranath.

Recently, a directive issued by the Ministry of Human Resources Development (HRD) that oversees education wanted all schools to recite the first two stanzas of the song at 11 am on September 7 to mark the completion of the centenary celebrations commemorating adoption of the national song.

However, when some Muslim clerics in Uttar Pradesh objected to this by contending that singing Vande Mataram amounted to worshipping the motherland and Muslims cannot worship any other than Allah.

Soon, the HRD minister, Arjun Singh, on a second thought, then diluted the appeal and made the recital of Vande Mataram optional. (ANI)
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Some say "Mlechchha" word was used in ancient times to describe a particular set of foreign people. Maybe so. However I have seen in the rural areas of north India, Hindus using this word 'Mlechchha' to describe anyone with unclean habits, even another Hindu. In my childhood, during winters, when we children used to be reluctance to take bath, I remember my own grand father scolding us as '...are you Mlechchha!'

I think whatever be the historical origin of the word, 'Mlechchha' had come to be widely used not in the racial terms but practical terms. Mlechchha meant anyone of unclean habits, 'Ashauch'. And this was important for Hindus, since Shauch - cleaneliness - is the first Niyam of Ashtanga Marg, and a great divine virtue. In this thread, I would like to discuss, what are those habits, which Hindus would traditionally treat 'unclean'.

1. Aversion to daily bathing. Europeans as well as Arabs, were known to not take very frequent bathes. Remember the Muslim culture of public 'Hammams' and weekly baths before the Namaz of Jumma. There are paintings of Mughal Emporers being given bath by their servants. Bathing was an "occasion".

2. As a result of not bathing, bodily stink. And to fight the stink, heavy use of perfumes. Usage of heavy perfumes by males of ordinary populace, is distinctively muslim culture, from Egypt to India.

3. No concept of 'Juthan'. Once the food from the plate has been tasted by a person, in Hindu civilization it is considered not fit for consumption by other. Hindus offer the food to God before eating it. This offering is different from Christian/Muslim/Jewish 'prayer' of thanks. For Hindus, the act of eating is a holy and spiritual exercise - a Yagna indeed, and food its Samidha. Hindus eat Juthan of God and nobody else's. Food that has been tasted by another person is not fit for offering to God. This concept is alient to Europeans or Muslims. Is there a proper English word for 'Juthan'? Closest that may come is 'Ort', but even that does not express what is expressed by 'Juthan'. Likewise, Muslims don't have any concept like this. Whole Muslim party may eat from one single plate. Have you ever seen a muslim marriage feast - if you have then you know what I mean. Recently, there was a news shown on Indian News channels that at some spot in Mumbai, near a dargah, water of Arab Sea had turned sweet. They were repeatedly showing a scene where Muslims of the area had collected the water in a flower-pot (gamlaa) and all were drinking from it directly (putting their lips on it, one by one).

4. Marrying the cousins or close relatives. Hindus maintain the need to avoid marriages among same Gothra, thereby avoiding marrying a "blood" relative. Modern knowledge of genetics supports this to avoid various genetic deseases. However, Europeans and Muslims very commonly marry their cousins and other close relatives. (I read somewhere, Mumtaj Mahal was Shahjahan's real Maami - wife of brother of mother) For Hindu eye, this is incest of the first order, and very deplorable.

5. Eating forbidden food - including meat and tamasic food as a regular diet.

6. Taming animals of tamasic temparament as domestic pets. This includes fouls, cats, pigs, turkey etc.

There are many more things, but this is to start with...what do the other members think?