Per consensus discussions will be split in three bins. In the first bin on Practice (Philosophical, Spiritual, Cultural), the second bin on Experience (Cultural/Social), the third on Community (Social/Political).

Each bin thus captures and represents one of the main ways that dharma is expressed which makes an impact on all hindus and others, living in the eco-system.

<b>The first bin</b> is for how religious practices can exert a powerful hold on people, and become focal points of their lives as they facilitate experiences of divine or ultimate reality [Whatever it is called in their own minds]. In other words, religious practices are powerful because they are vehicles for religious experience, let’s just look at it for what it is - {Let us avoid hair splitting here - orthodos or heterodox schools etc etc - we have philosophy thread just for that}

The second bin for discussing/analyzing different forms of religious experiences that shows how they not only involve people in relationships with divine or ultimate reality but its impact on immediate surroundings. Technically such experiences generate loyalty to religious communities and guide people in managing their immediate social world and concern for society (or lack there of) – discussion mainly on the latter part {We really cannot discuss personal experiences nor do we want to discuss opinions - Just the "local(micro)" impact}

The third bin for exploring the impact of such religious communities on society on a much broader scale – India/World - in light of increasing assault on Hinduism by the usual suspects, complicated by our own misunderstanding and laziness to put an effort into busting myths propagated by vested interests. For lack of better word, let’s call this “Theorizing Bin - Past, Present and Future” The past-present-future angle sets the context behind each argument, otherwise it is futile, in so far as developing a theory. If anything constructive comes out of this bin, then discussions to be based on accomplishing it at both micro and macro levels.

P-6 and Nuclear Truth
By Narayanan Komerath

Red Flag in "Cool" San Francisco
By Veera Vaishnava

<b>Majid Menace Memon</b>

Many gullible Hindus of India don't know who are traitors of India who are sitting right among them, even though they (traitors) are not disguised as such, but once again, Hindus are what they are -- gullible, nonchalant, busy folks working for loaf of bread and a packet of bidis.

I am sure they did not ponder much either about recent news report of one Majid Memon being shot at, nor did they invoke any interest as to who is this Majid Memon and why he got shot at.

Majid menace Memon is a  five star criminal lawyer of Mumbai who lives in a Posh Bandra residence (Almira Road) who mostly takes the notorious Muslims as their clients for a hefty fee when the case involves extortion or murder, but does not charge much when this staunch Muslim criminal (himself) thinks that Islamic Ideology is involved as was the case with ghatkoper Bomb Blast, Muslims who became free due to his subterfuge which is his baye hath ka khel --  easy job..


He is also assisting many Muslims involved in Bombay Bomb Blast which he thinks was more of a retaliatory attacks than a crime in itself. The guy is well entrenched with high level people of the society and has strong connection with Muslim Mafia who he needs to change the outcome of the judicial act. According to informed sources he is connected with ISI and Ibrahim Dawood with whom he speaks through third party phone (never uses his Nokia).

The guy is a tax cheat who collects higher amount of lump sum value abroad whenever he goes to Dubai-London-Singapore-Hongkong he gets paid there. Here is how he handles his cases with four pronged modus operundi:

Rule number one: Few judges are friendly with him who he takes them into confidence and corrupts them by hefty bribe.

Rule number two: When a perticular judge is away from his clutches, he has his Muslim Mafia henchmen who call the judge over the phone and threaten him/her for their life.

Rule number three: The crucial factor in any case is witnesses and key witnesses. He tries to bribe them.

Rule number four: When everything else fails vis a vis witness, he threatens those witnesses with murder through his henchmen.

Don't think he makes miracle with the law being a criminal attorney, he himself is a criminal who employs these outlaw tactics on such crucial subjects as witnesses along with those judges that he knows.

In the case of Ghatkoper Bomb Blast, the bus conductor was a key witness who in the beginning had said that he had seen couple of potential murderers that he can identify, but when the time came for him to identify those -- he failed, more, the guy became hostile, started non cooperation with prosecution -- clear cut sign that he was bought with money or coerced with threats. And with his negative testimoney, all those accused are roaming free, not only that, they are thinking to sue our government for wrongful confinement.

He did the same maneuvers with one of his client name DESAI who had murder charges on him and he set him free -- no witness came forward to prosecutions rescue and the guy walked free despite claiming to the police that he did murder his American wife during interogation/confession.

Its high time our intelligence agencies (CBI) grill this attorney and tape his e mail/voice mails to find the facts and bring him closer to justice sooner than later.

Enough said.
Keshto patel

<b>Buckle up India</b>

What is a biggest Item of export of the United states of America to the rest of the world?
Is it corn meal, levi Strauss, Rayban glasses, Coke, Marlboro? Sadly none of it!

Its US Dollar stupid!

When it comes to currency, USD is the king with the colorful crown after the EU federation has vanished out of the radar with trillions of US Dollars floating in 223 countries, (US not included with its 13 trillion economy and several trillions of cash within its borders) This factor provides a buoyancy for its monetary system.

Since more than 60 percent of the Import-export is invoiced in USD, which includes OPEC and its oil which is routed through american banks (Japan quotes in yens), and those 223 countries of the world maintain 75 percent of their reserves in USD, there is nothing that is going to rattle USD in a near future.

It takes just 4 cents to print one hundred dollar bill, it means each barrel of oil costs just about two cents to US Government. Incredible yet true when you consider that USD is not even a legal tender, meaning its not backed by gold. President Nixon had delinked USD from the gold reserves in 1971 knowing fully no one is going to ruffle their feathers.

What happens if US is asked to pay back its trillions of dollar at once? Nothing!

US Government would simply say "payable when able" and nothing the rest of the world can do to remedy the situation, for it would jeopardize the global economic outlook which would be in chaos, should there be any direct confrontation between the creditor and debtor (USA -- the most heavily indebted country of the world which owes in trillions) there would be a domino effect. If the engine of the world growth fails, the world economy would collapse in default.


And the USA has realized this with its unbridled Dollar printing power!



Thus the US monetary hawks are silent on paying back their trillions, they don't have minor intention of paying back such a humongous sum which carries about 245 billions in interest alone which the USA coughs up every year, yet keeps on borrowing half a trillion every year to stay afloat on books at least.

China has 175 billions in treasury bonds of the United States along with Japan which may cut both ways, one being that, it (China) might be thinking it would have the leverage, should it legally choose to dump those securities at once.

But on the other hand, US lets in billions of Chinese cheap imports by closing its eyes, and this could change drastically, it could stop it with one presidential decree of the United States. But this would not happen for the sake of global economic harmony, against which every nation small or big would stand to loose, Japan and Germany included.

Cuba and Venezuela are trading barter by not involving US Dollar which would involve US banks and this irks the State Department who are after senior Chavez, while poor Fidel is on his last legs anyway.

One of the biggest reason that US invaded Iraq was that Saddam had said he would stop trading his oil in US Dollars, reckoning that Iran might follow the suite and erode the USD, it attacked Iraq as we know, there were no WMDs neither Al Qaida involved.

US, with its 13 trillion economy is collecting enough taxes from its citizens and thus is in a position to squander the money on future wars with no questions asked, considering that Iraq war was illegal yet nobody is ready to impeach Mr. Bush.

As far as India is concerned, the US of A is just providing a lip service and nothing else to it, whereas on the other side they are providing sophisticated avionics and nuclear delivery platforms to our arch rival Pakistan who is busy burning midnight oil to somehow destabilize us Hindus.

Is it not a mockery that a terrorist country with a tin-pot as their head be known as US friendly with NATO assistance and India being declared a flawed democracy ? http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/mar/10rajiv2.htm

Keshto's Crystal Ball has more to it than what meets the eye on US-India relation of charlatan nature involving subterfuge. India is Lucky that US is busy within Iraq, Afghanistan, followed very soon by Iran.

US is not going to go back on its goal of depriving Indians of their rightful place under the Sun by coming up with Joshua Project, declining support for India's candidacy in UNSC, denying it dual use technology, nuclear fuel for its reactors for energy and other coercive/diplomatic veiled threats delivered from time to time.

US has got all the monetary muscle and the resolve, both the ingredients are crucial to invade any country. India's top echelons have already probed US intentions of malafide nature towards India, hence our General Padmanabhan wrote a book -- The Writing On The Wall reads: “India Checkmates America 2017”. When our top brass writes such book with a foresight who clearly says "US will prove to be a threat to India," we must imagine what is coming ahead within couple of decades.

But are we prepared?

There is a secret understanding of US top brasses with Pakistani hawks to destabilize Hindu India with its (US) nod and wink. UN designated terrorist Dawood Ibrahim who also has his foot prints involved in Sep-11 is left untouched by USA why?


Because its in US interest to diminish Indian progress, it wants India to be destabilized, Modis and Advanis rebuffed, Hinduism eroded, replaced by Christianity. And this is what exactly Dawood with ISI and his henchmen in India is doing -- fleecing Hindus with phone calls, sending RDX, pimping our top film actresses to shaikhs of UAE, sponsoring Islamic terrorism through remote control and what not. And this is exactly what USA wants Pakistan to do vis a vis India, to make its (US) job easier.

What you saw in the news of how a British newspaper did a sting operation on Indian call center is a tip of iceberg of what is about to surface in the later months. There is a conspiracy to destabilize Indian call centers and its outsourcing industry beyond recognition. There are many state forces involved into it, key among them from London and Washington. Against this onslaught, Indian security forces should do their own sting on call center employees, they (employees) should be made aware to not fall under any trap before hand, there should be stiff penalties coupled with prison term for such an employee to save this industry from being poached by foreigners who envy such a novel concept that Hindus have come up with great success.

Make USA think twice on hegemony subject.
Its time Indians brood about it!
By thinking 3D.
Keshto Patel

Castes here to stay

VG Rao

India's caste system is unique in itself. It has been associated with the Hindu society for almost 3,000 years. Such an arrangement was made to institute a social order in ancient India. Today, the system is prevalent more in rural than in urban India. Further, it is practised more in social matters like marriages than in impersonal day-to-day interactions. Being around for centuries, it is doubtful that the caste system will ever terminate.

The word 'caste' is derived from the Portuguese 'casta'. Broadly speaking, it is a rigid social system in which a social hierarchy is maintained generation after generation allowing little social manoeuverability beyond the position to which a person is born. It is perhaps as old as the Rig Veda itself. However, the hereditary basis of caste, as it prevailed in the last three hundred years - with a person born in a caste perpetuating his caste - appears a later-day improvisation.

In the Rig Veda, the oldest Hindu testament, caste represents profession. There is a hymn wherein the composer claims to be a poet despite his being born of a physician father and a corn-thrasher mother. The classification of caste into Brahmin, Kshratiya, Vaishya and Shudra, finds no mention in the Rig Veda.

According to Manu who codified Hindu laws in his magnum opus Manusrmiti, the caste of a person is determined by that of his father. That was undoubtedly a loaded proposition; for, a person born of a Brahmin or a king took on his father's caste irrespective of his mother's status in society.

But those born of wedlock between a Brahmin female and Shudra male, for example, was an outcast termed chandala. It is such discriminatory labelling that provides grist to the propaganda mill of our modern caste bailers. Manu especially comes in for a lot of flak. He is taken to be an authoritarian woman hater. Nothing could be farther from truth if things are taken in their proper perspective and context.

Castes have rightly or wrongly been blamed for the ills affecting our society. The evil practice of untouchability that segregated a man from another on the basis of his birth has been attributed to the caste system. However, at least, in the ancient period, castes served purely as functional groupings without rearing social discrimination. None of a stature less than that of Mahatma Gandhi had little reservation over the continuation of caste in the Hindu society. In fact, he warmly welcomed it.

The caste system of India has found mention in the writings of distinguished foreign travellers like Megasthenes, Lucius Flavius Arrianus, et al. The sociological problem of the origin of caste has not been resolved satisfactorily even now. Many differing viewpoints abound. The colonial scholar HH Risley confused castes with races.

Indian scholars like Mr Ramachandra Guha agreed with him to a certain extent. The current trend in sociology is to interpret caste on the basis of region and ethnicity with race taking a back seat. For instance, it is now recognised that the UP Brahmin is ethnically closer to the UP Kurmi than to a Tamil Brahmin.

Though casteist rules are observed more or less diligently by the orthodox in general, infraction of the same is no longer that uncommon. Inter-caste marriages are on the rise. Perhaps, Indian society is evolving. It is turning egalitarian and careless - at least, more sociable. But politically, caste is here to stay.

Friends,

If you are interested in Tamil literature and you are not following the story of Illaiyaraaja's Tiruvasagam Oratoria project please check www.tis-usa.com

I am here to spread the word about this project which I hope will place Tamil Sangam literature high up in the world. Not that any of our cultural contributions to the world require world's attention, it still warms my heart to see that people are making efforts to move it up.

For those interested - buy it and enjoy it. Please don't pirate it. This man's music deserves him to be put among composers of the world. <!--emo&:thumbsup--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbup.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='thumbup.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Eswar

Red Badge of Umbrage
By Narayanan Komerath

From HinduUnity

ALERT:Anti-Hindu groups trying to discredit Hindu ACTIVISTS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HERE IS A classic case where a ( christian /commie posing as a Hindu is spreading lies about Hindu activist Mr.Badri ( that he is a cheater) who is working vigorously for Hindu cause , and exposing missionary activities in India .

This mail has been sent to all Hindu groups by one hindu imposter " Balaji Sridharan " , NOW WE ARE persuing agressively on this case , to uncover the true identity of the person / organizzaton to whihc he belong . WE HAVE learnt that members of FOIL / SOUTH ASIAN groups affiliated to Marxist groups are involved in this campaign . This is a second such attempt on hindu activists , earlier they spread a lie on a hindu activist , that he marrying hindu hirls and dumping them after taking dowry .

In comming days you may expect more and more such news , to sow seeds of discontent among pro india / pro hindu groups . PLEASE TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY AND SPREAD THIS MESSAGE .
WE LEARNT FROM OUR SOURCES THAT , our rivals have launched an operation called " SAFFRON PSYOPS" with the help of ISI agents to spread mis/dis information .

SPREAD THIS MESSAGE ..... SPREAD THIS MESSAGE

Guys just wanted to record the following interesting posts from Sri M Kelkar on IC.. Other admins might move the post(s) to appropriate places. I havent read it but would like to read it when I find time..

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/75957

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->ANTI - BRAHMANISM, THE NEW COMMUNALISM OF MODERN INDIA: David Frawley
http://www.hindubooks.org/david_frawley/aw...anism/page7.htm

Anti-Brahminism
Koenraad Elst
http://hamsa.org/StThomas_Chapt_4.htm#elst

http://www.geocities.com/ifihhome/articles/mj002.html
The Plight of Brahmins

By Meenakshi Jain

he tragedy of being a Tamil Brahmin
http://www.anothersubcontinent.com/forums/...topic=2088&st=0

http://www.vepachedu.org/Recommendations.html
Recommendations to Brahmana Sadassu

http://www.vepachedu.org/brahmana-tribe.ht...cited_Vedas_are
The Mouths that Recited Vedas are Grieving

http://www.chennaionline.com/colnews/newsi...DE-48F6-9\
775-125C409B40CE%7D&CATEGORYNAME=National
BSP to organise Brahmin Sammelan on Feb 20

http://www.sulekha.com/expressions/article....asp?cid=306467
Myth of Brahminical Hegemony
Moor Nam

Many Brahaman houselholds were burnt in Maharashtra after Gandhi's
assasination. The last name Godse is almost non existant today
because people had it changed.

to be continued.

M. Kelkar<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCivili...n/message/75987

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->--- In IndianCivilization@yahoogroups.com, "koenraad_elst"
<koenraad.elst@p...> wrote:
> --- In IndianCivilization@yahoogroups.com, "mkelkar2003"
> <smykelkar@c...> wrote:
> > An anti anti Brahman (and hence a pro Brahman) book is not a good
> idea
> > because Brahmans are the last ones to complain or rely on counter
> > propoganda to repond in kind to Dalistan.
> >
> > M. Kelkar
>
>
> Thanks already for your list of available material. It goes without
> saying that a book on anti-Brahminism should not have the same hateful
> and victimhood-cultivating tone of the typical anti-Brahmin
> pamphlets. That the undersigned busybody wants to get involved here
> is also because as a non-Brahmin he is slightly better placed than the
> Brahmins themselves who usually are too dignified to complain about
> their own plight.
>
> KE

Glad to be of help. Some more references:

Brahmin and Brahminism: A historical survey
by Raj Narain Arya
# Unknown Binding: 125 pages
# Publisher: Blumoon Books (2001)
# Language: English
# ISBN: 8187190523

True Brahminism in life and law (Vedic University series)
by M. K. Venkatesvara Aiyar
# Unknown Binding: 154 pages
# Publisher: Printed at the Madras Law Journal Press (1928)
# Language: English
# ASIN: B00088O9QA

Aryans, Jews, Brahmins: Theorizing Authority Through Myths of Identity
(Suny Series, the Margins of Literature)
by Dorothy Matilda Figueira
# Hardcover: 256 pages
# Publisher: State University of New York Press (October 1, 2002)
# Language: English
# ISBN: 0791455319

My Life With a Brahmin Family
by Lizelle Reymond
# Paperback
# Publisher: Penguin Putnam~trade
# ISBN: 0140033750

The Brahmins
by Eileen Lottman
# Publisher: Dell Publishing (March, 1984)
# ISBN: 0440102138

http://www.hindu.org/publications/ramswa...inism.html
The Colonial Genesis of Anti-Brahminism

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/...tharamaiah.html
HAIL BRAHMINISM

http://www.humnri.com/Humex/Submission/padma/padma2.asp
Brahmanism & Brahminism

http://hamsa.org/StThomas_Chapt_4.htm#elst
Anti-Brahminism
Koenraad Elst

http://www.hvk.org/specialrepo/mms/index.html
MANU, SANGH & I

Draft translation of Marathi Book -

Me, Manu Ani Sangh

by

RAMESH PATANGE

http://www.hinduismtoday.com/archives/19...9-12.shtml
Verdict from Belgium

http://www.ciil.org/announcement/MBE_progr...per/paper14.htm
INDIA AS A LITERARY AREA
Kikkeri Narayan

http://bharatvani.org/books/civilization/partI6.htm
"Anti-Brahminism has often become the most virulent form of castist
thinking." David Frawley

M. kelkar<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->