[Admin - OLD Thread is at http://indiaforumarchives.blogspot.com/200...nd-kashmir.html]

Dear Yogi,

I do not understand why the spread of Christianity is regarded with such
suspicion and hostility...nor why over-zealous missionaries in Kashmir are being blamed. The book you cited is doomed to confuse everyone and ultimately fail because it treats Kashmir as a unique situation, when, in fact, it's the entire Islamic world that is looking inward and making hard decisions about Islam as a viable religion for the future of the world..

In the Sudan, the very active slave trading and genocide, by some
estimates in Darfour alone – over 50,000 people killed and 2.2 million
displaced from their homes and in urgent need of relief aid – this
includes the systematic rape of African Muslim women and girls, as well
as their enslavement. In her scathing Report to the United Nations
(August 11, 2004)Commission on Human Rights about the situation in
the Sudan, the Special Rapporteur on extra-judicial killings could not
have been clearer on the motives. This is arousing an international
solidarity against Islam and its violent and repressive spread. People are
flockinmg in the thousandsa every day to Christianity there...even where
there are no missionaries left alive.

For the past 1,400 years Eastern Christians have lived with, endured,
and coped under Sharia (Islamic law). The first Islamic conquests took
place during the last decade of the rule of Byzantine Emperor Heraclius
(610-641).Note history records them as "conquests" not willing
conversions.

Syria, Egypt, and Palestine were lost to Christianity (again, not
peacefully). Christian leaders such as Patriarch Sophronius of Jerusalem
made deals with Caliph Omar for the protection of his flock and of
Christendom's Holy places.

Despite Islam's claim of tolerance, Greek Orthodox, Armenian, Coptic,
and other Eastern Christians found themselves under terrible conditions.
While not immediately forced to convert, Christians were forced to
submit and to accept their new rulers as their masters. Economic
pressures and discrimination contributed to the eventual forced
conversion of millions of Christians to Islam.

The losses of Eastern Christianity continued following the invasions of
Byzantium that were begun by the Seljuk Turks in August 1071.
Steadily, Greek Christians were converted to Islam and adopted Turkish
and Arabic as their languages. In 1453, Sultan Mehmed II achieved one
of Islam's most notorious conquests when he conquered Constantinople
and defeated the Christian Empire's last Emperor Constantine
Paleologos.A reminder to you sir, to read your hsitory books. The
Crusades were never an attack on a legitimate Islam, but rather a
defense against attacks and an attempt to salvage the holiest of God's
historical places as they fell, as were desecrated by Islam....just
recently the tomb of the patriacrch Joseph, whom Muslims proclaim to
love as one of their own prophets, was sumarily destroyed by Muslims
just to spite the local Jewish population..now oil cans and old car parts
litter the site: the poor patriarchs must be watching from Heaven in
shock at such desecration of their graves.

Europe eventually made peace with the Sultan at the expense of
Christian Greeks, Serbs, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Albanians, and
Armenians. The peace didn't prevent Christian boys being kidnapped
and taken to the Janissaries for conversion to Islam and political
indoctrination. Women were taken into harems, Churches were
converted into Mosques and Christians were forced to acknowledge the
superiority of their rulers. "Zakat" a special tax was imposed on
Christians. Disputes between Christians and Muslims were heard
in ""Islamic " Courts where Christians could never be equals and could
never win.

At the dawn of the twentieth Century, there were still millions of
Christians in the Turkish Ottoman Empire. In 1915, the Young Turks
began a process of slaughtering one and a half million Armenian
Christians. Furthermore, the Greeks of Pontus and Asia Minor were
likewise targeted for extermination.
In Kashmir, as elswhere across Central Asia, there was no peaceful
conversion. The records of Sikander and others like him have endured
and proven how Islam came to dominate Kashmir. I am not familiar
with the history of India so I shall refrain from commenting on situations
there...

No, it was never peaceful, in spite of your previous long defense of
Sufi Islam....even Sufis protected and supported all Islamic-Shariat
enforcements, whether for slavery, dimmitude, or death to non-
believers. Sufis protected no one that Islam would not protect.

We have all seen the claims that Islam is the fastest growing religion in
the world....but people fail to take into account this is based upon a
runaway birthrate (quantity instead of quality)....In fact around the
world Islam is the fastest declining religion in the world, and there just
aren't enough zealous missionaries in existence to be responsible for
this new rush of converts back to Chrsitianity....

Al-Jazeera ran an in-depth article a few months ago, and I wish I could
find it again so I could include it here: basically it admitted that 16,000
converts per week (their most conservative number) around the world,
and over a million every year are leaving Islam.And that's in spite of
missionaries, not because of them.

So you see, sir, it isn't just in kashmir, and it isn't because of America,
or CIA plots, or oil, or missionaries in Kashmir or Iraq...it's because
people choose peace, and people choose to enter the modern world
with kind hearts and good souls.

The words of the Quran are sealed forever. This means that forever
there will be the unrest in the world brought on by the extremists and
malcontents and just plain nasty men who will sieze upon the words of
the Quran and see "Taliban" "jihad" "terrorism" "Shariat" (which means
cutting off of hands and feet and stoning) or Christians as "monkeys and
pigs" not worthy of respect or equality. There will always be bullies, and
they will always find a way in the very way the Quran is worded..

...the Quran cannot be changed...but people can, and they will continue
to change and make choices of their own free will. The choice is for
peace and love. The choice is for tolerance. Now I have probably
offended that nice gentleman in London who supports CAIR.....but I'm
sure he's aware of all these truths and conflicts too...

Perhaps it's not as bad as you fear to be a Christian (again) especially in
Kashmir which was virtually all Christian before arrival of Islam.
That's why Issa's tomb is there. I believe it's the will of God that the
Valley return to Christianity. :-)
Wishing you peace, Suzanne

<b>Nobel Prize = peanuts</b>

What is common with Nobel Laurets Rabindranath Tagore, Chandrashekher Venkata Raman, Hargobind khorana, Subramaniam Chandrashekhar, Mother Terresa, Amrtya Sen, V S Naipul and a Nobel Prize itself ?

The answer is Peanuts.

Just as you might be thinking this keshto guy has gone mad, I therefore guess the onus remains on me to explain the above riddle.


The Nobel Prize got started by virtue of Mr. Alfred Nobel who in his last will laid down his last wishes on the piece of a paper thereby stipulating that certain category of people with exceptional quality work in various fields be given such a prize equivalent to 10 million Swedish Kroners (today’s worth), for each recognition bestowed upon.


<b>a) Alfred Nobel = Nobel Prize</b>

Now, how did Mr. Alfred Nobel amass such millions? Well, Nobel invented dynamite in 1866 and later built up companies and laboratories in more than 20 countries all over the world which made him all the money



Now what is a dynamite?


Dynamite is an explosive based on the explosive potential of nitroglycerin using diatomaceous earth (Kieselguhr) as an absorbent. It was invented by Swedish chemist and engineer Alfred Nobel in 1867. It is usually sold in the form of a stick roughly eight inches long and one inch in diameter, but other sizes also exist. Dynamite is considered a "high explosive", which means it is much more powerful than gunpowder.


<b>b) Nobel Prize = Dynamites</b>


The basic ingredient above is a form of nitroglycerin, without which it was not possible to produce dynamites.

<b>c) Dynamite = Nitroglycerine</b>


Now how is nitroglycerin produced and what it is?


Nitroglycerin, also known as nitroglycerine, trinitroglycerin, and glyceryl trinitrate, is a chemical compound, a heavy, colorless, poisonous, oily, explosive liquid obtained by nitrating glycerol.


<b>d) Nitroglycerine = glycerol.</b>


What is glycerol or commonly known as glycerine?

Glycerin, also known as glycerine and glycerol, and less commonly as 1,2,3-propanetriol, 1,2,3-trihydroxypropane, glyceritol, and glycyl alcohol is a colorless, odorless, hygroscopic, and sweet tasting viscous liquid. Glycerin has three hydrophilic alcoholic hydroxyl groups (-OH) that are responsible for its solubility water. Glycerin is prochiral. Glycerin is used in glycerin soap, in cosmetics and creams, in foods, in chemistry, and in glycerin mist. And it is made from peanut oil.


<b>e) glycerol = peanut oil</b>


Now it should be no brainer to come to the conclusion that peanut oil is extracted from peanuts.


<b>f) peanut oil = peanuts.</b>

Now let us connect the dots and do our math (equation) and see what I said is right and worthy or not?


a) Alfred Nobel = Nobel Prize
Because without Alfred Nobel there was no Nobel Prize

b) Nobel Prize = Dynamites
Without the income of dynamite business there would have been no Nobel Prize.

c)Dynamite = nitroglycerine
Without nitroglycerine you can not make a dynamite.

d) Nitroglycerine = glycerol.
Without nitrating glycerine you can not make nitroglycerine.

e) glycerol = peanut oil
Without peanut oil you can not make a glycerine.

f) peanut oil = peanuts.
Peanut oil only comes from peanuts.

If you peruse those five conclusions which are not short of universal fact then you know what I mean. And when a terrorist like arafat can get a nobel prize – peanut it ought to be.

I am vindicated.

Keshto Patel

<b>India under Islamic seize</b>


It is a conventional wisdom or rule of a thumb to ascertain the haul by customs when a percentage of such seizure is to be reached at. It is known that only 10 percent of contraband is intercepted and seized -- almost 90 percent gets in within the country undetected, kind of tip of iceberg.


If above makes any sense then let us translate this tip of iceberg into something actual that transpired five years ago and the tip of iceberg in this case is no one but Additional Sessions Judge J. W. Singh who was caught on the tape talking to a Mafia chota shakeel.

Here is a chilling conversation:

Shakeel: I was saying, the police are killing boys with families. Why don't you take action against these policemen?

J. W. Singh: We should do, definitely we ought to.

Shakeel: No, no, why don't you just do it? What is this, bhai (brother)?

J. W. Singh: Actually, I need a case to come up before me first.

Full text>>> http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1701/17010400.htm

So lets apply the rule of thumb on this issue and find that we have many judges who might still be active receiving orders from Islamabad and cash from their sleeper cells in India.

Does anyone wonder why a judge just slapped a fine of RS 5000 to a convicted Muslim - but hold on -- convicted of what? Rape, yes rape, and the guy goes home happy by paying a paltry amount of 5000 RS - A great Indian rape trick or a thretening telephone call by Muslims? you figure.

Then cometh a Hindu by the name of A. K. Jaiswal as a challenger who paid for the frivolity -- so cried THE Telegraph.

What has happened was that this businessman put up a petition to stop a roadside namaz as any disciplined citizen would think of doing, but lo and behold what happened, you thought it right, the timid judge ( foreseeing his life at peril by acting against islam ) not only threw his case as frivolous but fined him 10,000 RS.

Now lets go one notch further and get on to our supreme court who was involved at the behest of one Miss Teesta Setalvad (married to a Muslim) who moved a petition in the interest of best bakery case involving Zahira Shaikh as a witness.

And this is where our super duper judges being of highest authority erred - or were thretened by muslim mafia a la dawood, For they accepted the affidavtes that were not signed at all by a witness Zahira Shaikh. How do you think judges of supreme court behaving as such?


Anyone still remember senior Ojha of bihar - a Bihar Director General of Police DP Ojha who sought his own transfer after he revealed laloo's ISI connections.


Do we know how many people report extortion bids to law enforcement athorities? Not very many under the mafia threats.


We have the classic example of coward nation's hindus where not a single bidder came to bid for dawood ibrahim's properties being auctioned for pennies. So how do you assume that very many indians be coming forward to report about extortions? Not very many.

But here are few samples of indians that we know through out India who were the targets of Babloo srivastava - Dawood's henchman in india:


Babu Bhai Singhvi, a businessman in Bhuj
Jagdish Ramani, an oil dealer of Indore
Satish Shetty, the wealthy owner of a large ceramics factory in Hubli
Subhash Rastogi, an exclusively wealthy Delhi garment exporter
Raju Punwani, owner of Calcutta's Lytton Hotel
Ramesh Vyas, the owner of a posh hotel in South Delhi
Mohan, a renowned dealer of foreign exchange in Delhi
Rajesh Rathi, chairman of Rathi Super Steel
Gautam Adani, a meat exporter from Gujarat
Source; http://www.swordoftruth.com/swordof...di/timtnp4.html

And now we have a gutka case as we write this:
'Gutka kings enjoy patronage in Dubai'- The Times of India

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1023573.cms - 47k -



Now you apply again the golden rule of thumb and try to decipher above scenario what do you find? Yes; that there ought to be more cases of people who might not have come forward, afterall not everybody is brave who would risk his or her life.

I know two prominent sindhi businesmen of Dubai ( no names named ) who had bought a posh property worth crores in Bombay which was being overseen by one of the partner's brother in Bombay who was murdered by Muslim Mafia by not selling the property at peanut prices, which was eventually sold by the Dubai duo who were timid enough to let it go. Who benefited? people of Pakistan.

We Indians (specially hindus and not muslims) are living a second hand life, that also at the edge of the islamic sword, under such misrule where our own politicians are sold out to mafias through congress/communists/muslim leagues. Its high time we gave Z security coverage to every judges of india and see the change in favour of hindus.

Point to note here is that, it was gulshan kumar/Rakesh Roshan who were the targets of muslim mafia and not salman Khan or Amir Khan because under islam muslims are brothers to each other.

I am myself going to meet Mr Modi at fort lauderdale and apprise him of such grave situation which if left ungaurded, would wipe out hindus slowly albeit surely, after all it was tortoise who won the race and not the hare; Right ?

But as I have said before and let me reiterate my pet phrase “ migs and mirages wont make any difference to India, Mir jafars of India ( a la SIMI ) will “. Thirty three years without using our combat birds and our tanks against our external threat, whose shelf life has nearly expired, versus India’s fifth column ( about 100 some terrorist organizations listed at satp.org ) who is silently stabbing Indians within our borders and goes unpunished, Its time we join hands or perish we will.

How many of you know that akshardham was planned in Saudi arabia? URL: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...show/712524.cms

Its time we think 3Dimensionally.

Keshto Patel.

<b>India - a bucket without a bottom.</b>


The laws of jungle demand the killings, thus nature demands the killings, for what is death of a deer is a survival of the lion, as long as this is ecological equation, we should have no problems. The problems crop up when you see the humans torching humans, and in this case 57 innocent women and children, by mindless mob motivated by religious rantings of mullahs, who turned the victims into charcoals within minutes.

Sane minds in India are perturbed at these offenses of our own people for whom our Gandhian leaders go extra mile and what do we get in return -- murders and mayhem from them.

But that's not the point, Indians are always let the bygone be the bygone type, and that's where my biggest concern. We behave like sheep at the slaughter house. We Indians never act, we always react, that also when the water level has reached our collar.

This is where our own 1000 Jaichands of today at work, against our own interests, the situation is being worsened as this Indian elephant is being bled with 1000 cuts, and the irony being that it is self inflicted.

In a book Open Secrets: India's Intelligence Unveiled; Mr. Dhar of IB reveals how they did a sting and covert operations on politicians. Hey we all knew something was to come up as such as far as politicians are concerned, but the biggest wailing is that the likes of Arundhati Roy and Teestas with anti national connections went untapped.


Hotch potch Indian politics is constipated with secular soup prepared by best secular fundamentalist cooks and marketed by secular charlatans who are burning midnight oil (provided gratis by anti nationals) to eliminate saffronists.

These secular fakirs do not foresee what is forth coming, not due to lack of prophetic foresight, but the greed to amass more wealth for the few and destitution for the rest.

India with these Nehruvian secular principles certified with a Gandhian stamp a la USDA is a vast sea of compassion and complacency where only minority is taking undue advantage to the hilt and majority is disgruntled in the process.

In which country of the world their own citizens are forbidden to buy land as in India (Kashmir) ? But I think it is a way of life for nonchalant Indians, not an injustice as others might perceive. Because we have been molded to live such life for half a century by living on a diet of such secular soup.

To commit atrocity is a sin but it is even a greater sin to bear it.

But are we following our Vedas?
No sir.

Look at the mother of all languages -- Sanskrit, how it got wiped out from bharatiya sanskriti? do we even care for our culture, ethos, religion, languages? I do not have a problem if people learn English, the problem kicks in when they relinquish their native lingo.

Tomorrow Hindu names would be fit only for museums

Brotherhood, religion, culture, ethos go hand in gloves when it comes to national interests. Rewind the cassette till Madrid blast where 12 million Spaniards flocked the streets -- almost a quarter of a Spain's population out on the roads, within fortnight the government at center got changed - Aznar out, Zappata in.

Now pit above scenario against Bombay bomb blast, which killed and wounded more humans than Madrid, and judge for yourself what transpired thereafter - Nada, nothing, fickle minded we must be, if not unpatriotic.

You know why the dodo became extinct?
Poor bird could not fly despite wings.
Got the message?

Think 3D

Keshto Patel

I would like to start this thread to collect the good, bad and ugly of moving back to India. Please post information, resources, experiences etc on anything that is related to resettling in India.

http://www.zdnetindia.com/news/national/st...366,118734.html

<!--QuoteBegin-->QUOTE<!--QuoteEBegin-->
India beckons
Vinutha V, March 14, 2005


While it is not easy to adjust to a new professional and social environment back home, returnees are rediscovering their roots and want to be a part of the country's booming IT sector, says Vinutha V.

For most Indian IT professionals, the US has always been the destination. A major reason for students who left the country and never came back was a lack of opportunities. This is no longer true. With global companies zeroing in on India as a destination for low-cost, high quality work, the scenario has changed. Professionals, who had gone to the US for better opportunities and lifestyle, are packing their bags to head home. Coming back, however, does not guarantee that their expectations can be met, but opportunities and the sense of belonging nullifies the problems of adjustment.

The growth of the infotech economy has transformed India into a hiring destination. Other factors adding to this trend are an improved standard of living and a thriving technology and services industry. The retailing industry offers a shopping experience akin to international standards. In addition, excellent education facilities for kids are now common.

Additionally, the salary structure in India, though not on par with those in the US, holds potential for savings. Repeated portraying of India as an attractive IT career destination by the media in the US is making them aware of the opportunities. After the US recession in 2001, people with two to three years of experience preferred coming back to India, as they could not get good opportunities. Another reason for India's popularity with international firms is their need to keep ahead of competitors in a global business climate requiring a seamless 24-hour customer service.

There are other strong personal reasons: Increasingly, people settled in the US are concerned about their children losing touch with their roots and culture. They are also keen to stay close to their aged parents and be a part of their lives. Although returnees are aware of the salary structure in India, they come with unrealistic salary expectations. It is only for senior levels that Indian companies are willing to pay the US standard for salaries. Industry experts point out that unless an individual possesses expected domain and management skills, the person is not eligible for higher salaries. At senior managerial levels, they can demand a good package from Indian companies-for salary as well as the position.

The scene is however not rosy for those who have been given employment by a body shopping firm. Unless they upgrade their skill-sets, they are bound to face a tough time in finding better opportunities in India. There could even be a mismatch between the organisational structure and the roles being offered. As many Indian IT companies still consider seniority to be a factor in promoting employees, at the age of 40 for instance, they are expected to handle 500 people. On the contrary, a person of the same age abroad would have handled just 25 people. There would be a huge mismatch in roles and responsibilities. Furthermore, having worked in clearly defined roles and fixed working hours, it may seem a little difficult to cope with long working hours in India.

The transition phase that seems too difficult and long initially, is offset by the advantages of being with one's own people and having a secure job. People who find it difficult to cope with the Indian working environment sometimes migrate to MNC offshoring companies, which offer a US-like culture. Indian companies are gradually adopting global practices. The trend of taking care of employees has increased significantly. Since the entire relocation process is handled professionally, returnees are not complaining.<!--QuoteEnd--><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<b>When India broke its piggy bank</b>


All along those 40 plus vote greedy congress blue years of ruling and fooling gullible Indian masses of Hindu stock and placating Mohammedans for their survival, when left their legacy to BJP in nineties, India was all but bankrupt nation (900 million of FOREX good only for a week's import) at the verge of default. For mismanagement, permit raj, embezzlement and corruption were congress's hallmark. Please note here that even the exchequer becomes orphan without finances. What a hand over


Why do you think Bank of England became our favorite international pawn shop where we pledged our 400 tons of gold by chartered flight? This is another matter though that India possesses approximately 33,000 tons of gold worth 400 billion dollars at today's governed prices at bullion exchanges, against the official reservoir of 400 tons.


Thats when India broke its piggy bank. At that given time all that glittered was gold for India. For it was only and the last choice to save ourselves on default that would have automatically applied brakes on India's future borrowing as a defaulter nation on the lines of Somalia and Sudan.


More, future loans were not forthcoming anyway as there was a coercion by IMF/WB whose stalwarts with veto power were reluctant to ink any deal with India as long as we don't open our economy. The situation thus demanded that India do what it has been told to - And Mr. Man Mohan Singh relented, not that he wanted to, he was forced to. It is noteworthy that even Saudi has a veto at IMF among crucial 11 members who can make or break any nation by choking their economy by not sanctioning loans adequately or releasing them in timely fashion.


India was lucky enough to have not defaulted, otherwise those nuclear ayatollahs of  state department were hovering like vulture to feast upon indian cadaver by rolling back India's nukes under future financial blakmail. Nuclear Walmart pakistan is no concern to them - India is.

US is India's stealth enemy with unwritten charter, let General S. Padmanabhan, PVSM, AVSM, VSM (Retd.) testify on my behalf with his book - The Writing on the Wall: India Checkmates America 2017

US has junked all the international treaties and replaced them with their own pre-emption doctrine thus making sure we live as per the laws of jungle where dog eats dog. Lamentably here that Indian elephant errs by considering a chinese lion and pakistani heyna as a enemy while leaving the poacher alone - Mr USA.


It is here that BJP kicked in with nationalistic qualities and vigor with Atal Advani combo of dove and hawk who took the helm of this sinking Indian ship and started to patch it by floating it by virtue of issuance of India's resurgent bonds which were sold instantly than expected. This is where Advaniji (a Sindhi lawyer) played a crucial role by visiting Sindhi businessmen in Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, London and persuading Indian Diaspora to help India Inc. at that crucial juncture.


So far in India he is the only national leader of courage and character who had galls to show his displeasure at state department official and almost shout at them with regard to Pakistan's terrorism when there was high alert of war scenario between India and Pakistan. And his acumen to cement Indo-Israeli relation in defense and counter terrorism, bring the MOSSAD knowledge home at RAW doorstep - What a match maker in Indo Israeli marriage!


You have to believe above when you hear Israeli Ambassador talking about him in the following manner:

"Mr. Advani is a very unique man. I like him very much. Ideologically and personally he reminds me of some people from an earlier generation of Israelis."


Qutbuddin Aziz, former minister in Pakistan embassy in London, wrote an excellent article, titled 'Dangerous Nexus between Israel & India.' It was published by a prominent Pakistani newspaper on April 1, 2001.

Aziz writes: "Top secret details of Indian Home Minister LK Advani's visit to Israel in June 2000, show that the deals he has struck with the Israelis would make India and Israel partners in threatening the Muslim world with diabolic conspiracies to fragment and cripple it as a political force in the world. The details of his meetings with Israel's rulers, particularly the heads of the Israeli Home Ministry and its intelligence agencies, Mossad and Sabak, reveal that the arrangements he has made for joint Indo-Israel espionage operations in key areas of the Muslim world would make the Indian embassies in these Muslim countries the eyes and ears of the worldwide cloak-and-dagger Israeli spy network.

I think in today's India (where nationalistic qualities are hard to come by) people like Advaniji should be considered our national asset besides Lata Mangeshkar, and others, leaving Ayodhya issue and subsequent stereotype rants of SABRANG and FOIL who are flourishing in India with ISI funds. It was the cocktail of such anti national forces who persuaded the editor of Rediff, Ajit Balakrishnan, to axe Varsha Bhosle who wanted to expose their ties to ISI, by challenging these NGOs to produce the proof of origin of funds utilized to fight Hindus and hindutwa.

BJP delivered what they had promised - Nukes, even by deceiving a institution like CIA and ruffling their feathers in the process where couple of heads rolled due to this.


No wonder that shree Advaniji tops ISI's hit list while sonia walks tall, and the irony being that our majority hindu folks dont realise this. Mahatir mohammed of malaysia, freind of ISI, did not extradite Ottavio Quattrochi under a big conspricy to save sonia despite Interpole's red alert.


Our nation owes a big salute to BJP Inc who transformed our bankrupt nation into a solvent one with approximately 130 billion USD of FOREX never thought of. And boys what a luxury for congress once again to loot and plunder this hard earned savings of India.

Consider this; As soon as congress stepped in at Delhi they showered a largesse of 24,000 crores on Kashmir - entire GDP of Republic of Vanuatu, without putting a simple condition that those displaced pundits be rehabilitated first, remember no country can thrive wherein the majority is trampled upon.

If Hindus of India don't unite together and vote for parties like BJP to counter Muslim's voting en masse who thereby help congress, then India (which does not have adequate gold and crude deposits) will not have a bright future under the hung parliament of tomorrow. We wont be able to amend our constitution for the likes of UCC reform beside other important national issues.

Hindu fusion (unity) should be the soup of the day.

Think 3D

Keshto Patel

<!--emo&:furious--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/furious.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='furious.gif' /><!--endemo--> <b>Who owns Taj Mahal?</b>? <!--emo&:grenade--><img src='style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/grenade.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='grenade.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Note to Admin: I see a thread on monitoring communists only. We need a broader thread to catalog the activities against India in general and Hindus in particular. This will help as a reference to identify the anti-India people and entities. We should keep the discussion to minimum but only record the anti-India and anti-Hindu activities.

=================
Mail to DOD list from CAIR
=================

From cair@CAIR-NET.ORG Wed Mar 9 13:19:04 2005
X-Gmail-Received: 3f9636b465c8ed259f701c594932c2cdaf21fcbb
Delivered-To: --@gmail.com
Received: by 10.54.49.23 with SMTP id w23cs17433wrw;
Wed, 9 Mar 2005 10:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Received: by 10.38.82.51 with SMTP id f51mr1035946rnb;
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Return-Path: <owner-defense-press-service-l@dtic.mil>
Received: from list2.dtic.mil (list2.dtic.mil [131.84.105.104])
by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id k23si962119rnb.2005.03.09.10.05.08;
Wed, 09 Mar 2005 10:05:12 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (gmail.com: best guess record for domain of owner-defense-press-service-l@dtic.mil designates 131.84.105.104 as permitted sender)
Received: from list2 (list2.dtic.mil [172.16.105.104])
by list2.dtic.mil (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with ESMTP id j29D6jaA005996;
Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:04:51 -0500 (EST)
Received: from DTIC.MIL by DTIC.MIL (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8e) with spool
id 90630 for DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE-L@DTIC.MIL; Wed, 9 Mar 2005
13:01:30 -0500
Approved-By: jbanusiewicz@HQ.AFIS.OSD.MIL
Received: from dtics22b.dtic.mil ([172.16.105.86]) by list2.dtic.mil
(8.12.10+Sun/8.12.10) with SMTP id j29HolGR011763 for
<defense-press-service-l@dtics22b.dtic.mil>; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:51:04
-0500 (EST)
Received: from mails.dtic.mil ([131.84.1.19]) by dtics22b.dtic.mil (SAVSMTP
3.1.1.32) with SMTP id M2005030912510312081 for
<defense-press-service-l@dtics22b.dtic.mil>; Wed, 09 Mar 2005
12:51:03 -0500
Received: from h01.biglist.com (h01.biglist.com [209.123.46.101]) by
mails.dtic.mil (8.11.7p1+Sun/Oct04cac) with SMTP id j29Hp4228239 for
<DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE-L@dtic.mil>; Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:51:04 -0500
(EST)
Received: (qmail 99486 invoked by uid 2057); 9 Mar 2005 17:49:05 -0000
Mailing-List: contact islam-infonet-help@cair.biglist.com
Precedence: bulk
X-No-Archive: yes
List-Post: <mailto:islam-infonet@cair.biglist.com>
List-Help: <mailto:islam-infonet-help@cair.biglist.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:islam-infonet-unsubscribe-DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE-L=dtic.mil@cair.biglist.com>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:islam-infonet-subscribe@cair.biglist.com>
Delivered-To: mailing list islam-infonet@cair.biglist.com
Delivered-To: moderator for islam-infonet@cair.biglist.com
Received: (qmail 99264 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2005 17:46:30 -0000
X-Sender: cair@cair-net.org@mail.cair-net.org (Unverified)
X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20050309124226.038f65e8@mail.cair-net.org>
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:46:46 -0500
Reply-To: defense-press-service-l-request@DTIC.MIL
From: CAIR <cair@CAIR-NET.ORG>
Subject: ISLAM-INFONET: 'Hardball' Host Withdraws From Controversial FL Event
Comments: To: islam-infonet@cair.biglist.com
To: DEFENSE-PRESS-SERVICE-L@DTIC.MIL

In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

'HARDBALL' HOST WITHDRAWS FROM CONTROVERSIAL FL EVENT Convention will honor Indian official linked to Gujarat massacre

(WASHINGTON, D.C., 3/9/05) - A prominent national Islamic civil rights and advocacy group today applauded MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews' decision not to speak at a Florida convention that will honor an Indian official accused of complicity in the massacre of Muslim civilians. SEE: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/

A representative for Matthews told the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) that a "scheduling conflict" will prevent him from attending the annual convention of the Asian American Hotel Owners Association (AAHOA) later this month in Ft. Lauderdale, Fla. Narendra Modi, Chief Minister of the Indian state of Gujarat, is a keynote speaker at the convention...

The political and semi-political parties (NGOs/NPOs/etc) with religious affiliations (fondly called secular in Bharat and consists of CommiePakis), and leanings - left and center, Red, Green & White, continue back tracking and betraying their promises.

These spawned movements can get no direct representation in any of the party structure, and their own leaders have failed them through and through. This constant and continous exploitation of these people - resulting only in a vote bank - has left them ill equipped to guide their own actions/destiny as well as in forming an alternative political front.

The so called reprensetatives have come with ingenious slogans and theories, spread by the activists of the new movements; yet no new alternative, no differently articulated version of social justice has as yet emerged as a political force. If anything the only issue that ever comes to the forefront is - pet agendas, petty grudges of the reformists and activists. Society as such as become hostage to their experimentation with discarded political and social theories of the west and elsewhere.

These instigated movements have constantly used dalits and other weaker sections of the society, to further divide the society. In doing so, these movements are eroding their victims' identity, culture, religion and distancing them from the very people they should be dealing with to solve their very real problems they face - socially, politically and on other fronts. In short the activists have tried everything under the sun, including instigating the said unfortunate Indians to violence and anti-national activities.

Now, Can we provide an alternative framework, where reformation, reconciliation and mutual understanding that will result in a strong, vibrant India - India that is for everyone.

We have one thread for "Caste/Religious Persecution" to highlight how propagandists and politicians use dalit issues and dalits as cannonfodder to further perpetuate a persecution complex.

We have another thread for "Caste/Religion based Reservation" to discuss the merits or lack there of such policies and impact.

This thread will raise the altitude to take stock of the situation - Big Picture - and discuss realistic solutions for reformation and reconciliation within a framework whose parameters are acceptable to everyone, and not just a single party in the mix and throw out the instigators and self-appointed reformers and revisionists.

With apologies to Sun Tzu for twisting the name of his ageless work on statecraft, I wish to start a topic thats familiar territor for most IFites and BRites. In I-F we have touched upon some aspects of this through our Ithihasa-Purana, Indian History and Pre Modern Warfare threads but we must look deeper into the texts to reveal the very subtle and hidden wisdom of our ancient thought.
By the very title Arth (Meaning) of War, I wish to find out if we have a well thought out and comprehensive approach to War.....War and the whole baggage of war.
Things like why war, how and when to start a war, what justifies the war, whats the moral foundation of the conflict, how to *continue* the war till some sort of "decision" is reached......and the obvious post mortem of the conflict. A very good (maybe the only) Indian pointer to the whole process of conlict is the Mahabharata.

The question will become more clear after the reader carefully studies some insights from a BRF thread...I shall freely quote them in order in the following posts so as to create some sort of a synopsis on the idea. I will post the relevant stuff here with permission.......

Thanks.