I would like to start the thread with links to discussion of Bharati Mukherjee's "Two ways of belonging in America" op-ed in New York TImes in 1996. She wrote that piece to contrast her way versus her sister Mira. The background was that the new INS reform bill denied benefits to non citizens. Mira her sister wrote in NYT as to how she feels about it having contributed to the system and how the rules were changed later.

Now we have Indira Nooyi, CEO of PEPSICO, speaking to the graduating class of Columbia Business school. Here she tries to put in prespective what the global world things of US.

Text of speech: Indira Nooyi at Columbia Business School-2005

Comments on her speech: Sample comments

Blog :Blog on the speech

looks like Indian Americans have come a long way since 1996.

I would like to Start a thread on International Society of Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON), it's Sampradhaya, Idealogies, and it's world-view of other traditions (Indic and non-Indic.)

<b>Purpose of the thread:</b> While many are enchanted by the "Hare Krishna" groups spreading the message of Krishna Consciousness, there is also an undercurrent that's quite unclear. With some Hindus being uncomfortable with the claims made by Hare Krishna (like "Darwin is a rascal, confusing the world" etc.) that we would like to understand. Some of the claim on Scientific and spiritual matters are questionable, and it is only by questioning can we clarify. (At this point the thread does not claim ISKCON is wrong. It only is seeking to understand the logic and motive behind the claims.)

Many traidional Vaishnavas do not feel comfortable with Iskcon Idealogy and the method in which it propogates it's idealogies.

<b>Rules for discussion:</b>
(*) Focus will be on the idealogies. Any statement, when challenged, will have to be backed by a valid Source (pramaana.) This could be the Shruthi, Smrithi or logic according to Nyaaya shastra.
(*) The posts SHALL NOT contain any personal name-calling, flame baits on other derogatory remarks on forum members.
(*) If one member does not understand the argument/counter-argument, he/she shall state the assumption and ask for clarification.
(*) Try not to mock and throw sweeping allegations or character maligning if it is speculative and not supported by reference to available material.
(*) Keep the tone of conversation civil.
(*) All members are welcome to participate. Defend and challenge passionately, but not spitefully.

Hari Om.

http://iskcon.com/
http://science.krishna.org/
http://iskcon.com/education/culture/1.htm

To understand the Hindu thought of linkage between human being and ecology, one should realize that man is not just a body, but consciousness, a living energy that is self-aware and that possesses mind and memory. This process of involves development of consciousness, both qualitatively and quantitatively giving meaning and purpose to one’s life, as well as of lives of virtually all living beings. Merging with god is merging of environment and consciousness, and be aware of it.

Hindus believe that evolution of any individual soul starts with the first rudiments which are initially diffusive. This tiny spark then gets incarnated into bodies of plants, where it continues to grow, then it moves into animal bodies and finally into human ones. The human stage evolution of the soul implies, and not limited to, an understanding and experience of these fundamental principles of consciousness’ development as well as taking an active part in this process. Thus Hinduism's philosophical and religious principles treat “Ecology” as part and parcel of humanity.

Ashwatha is sacred to Hindus. Sankaracharya interprets ashwatha as representing the entire cosmos. Ashwatha is a unique and remarkable tree as the branches themselves morph into roots, and even when the original tree decays and perishes the young branches underneath continue to grow and enclose the parent. This eternal life of the Ashwatha has inspired many a Hindu philosophers over millennia.

There was a time in India when a Ashwatha was planted in the premises of every temple, and was regarded as the Tree of Life.

This thread is to collect articles that bring out the very aspect in Hindu Thought and culture (Concerns, Practices in preserving nature), promote pro-active environmental activism and awareness, based on Dharma the universal law, to prevent ecological imbalances and environmental disasters.

Let us re-learn it.

Xposted--

I think there are two lines of discussion around Arun's posts --
firstly, is there something that can be considered common in the
experience of the Indian traditions and secondly how should they be
classified.

I think there is reasonable consensus around the fact that the
Indian traditions cannot be described as religion as well as the
fact the phenomena is experienced differently within Western and
Eastern cultures.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_7615...duism.html

Part of where we were stuck was the label of Hinduism -- i.e. even
if there is a commonality of experience (we won't say exactly what
right now), does the label Hinduism server to meaningfully
distinguish a category of phenomena from another one,
say "Buddhism." I think the point that Balu is making is that this
distinction is arbitrary and does not encapsulate a real category in
the world. In the new Encarta article on Hinduism we find:

"A Hindu is thus identified by a dual exclusion. A Hindu is someone
who does not subscribe to a religion of non-Indian origin, and who
does not claim to belong exclusively to another religion of Indian
origin—Buddhism, Jainism, or Sikhism. This effort at definition
produces a rather artificial distinction between Hinduism and other
dharmic traditions, which stems from an attempt to limit a system
that sees itself as universal to an identity that is strictly
religious. In many ways, labeling the other dharmic traditions as
non-Hindu has a basis that derives more from politics than from
philosophy. Indeed, greater differences of belief and practices lie
within the broad family labeled as Hinduism than distinguish
Hinduism from other dharmic systems.

Indian historian Irfan Habib makes this point when he quotes an
early Persian source that Hindus are those who have been debating
with each other within a common framework for centuries. If they
recognize another as somebody whom they can either support or oppose
intelligibly, then both are Hindus. Despite the fact that Jains
reject many Hindu beliefs, Jains and Hindus can still debate and
thus Jains are Hindus. But such discourse does not take place
between Hindus and Muslims because they do not share any basic
terms.
"

Clearly however, that way (people in) the Indian culture experience
phenomena is itself a commonality as well as a distinction from the
West. However, can one say more that is in common vs. the experience
of other societies that are non-religious?

"Terror AID"?
Communist - Pakistani links to Attack Inside Democracies
By: Veera Vaishnava

http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?m...t&counter_img=4

Non-BJP CMs want Centre to evict Bangladeshis
Pioneer Neews Service/ New Delhi

At CMs meet, B'deshi and Naxal menace takes centrestage--- The issue of infiltration from Bangladesh dominated the Chief Ministers' conference on Friday with chief ministers of at least seven non-BJP states asking the Centre to take steps to firmly tackle the controversial issue which posed a grave threat to national security.

The alarm bells rung by the Chief Ministers of Maharashtra, West Bengal, Meghalaya, Manipur, Nagaland, Arunachal Pradesh and Mizoram should come as a wake up call for the UPA Government at the Centre, which has been reluctant to admit the danger of Bangladeshi infiltration.

The issue of illegal infiltration from Bangladesh has often generated much controversy in the political arena. While the BJP has been in the forefront of seeking strong action against the infiltrators, Congress and many of its UPA allies have been shy of admitting the problem because of votebank considerations. In many Lok Sabha seats and Assembly segments along the Bangladesh border, the infiltrators are in a position to decide the fate of candidates, which exposes the policy of appeasement being practiced by many political parties.

The meeting called to discuss internal security issues saw concern on illegal infiltration from Bangladesh emerging as the main focus of debate along with growing problems of Naxal menace.

While chief ministers of Maharashtra and West Bengal separately spoke of the danger of infiltration from Bangladesh and its linkage with ISI activities, the issue brought five chief ministers from the North East on one platform.

Alarmed by the rising illegal immigration into North-East from Bangladesh, the chief ministers of the five states of the region asked the Centre to increase security along the international borders and help them strengthen their police forces.

They also demanded that the region's insurgency problems be treated as a "national issue as in the case of Kashmir" so that these could be solved quickly.

"Steps have been taken to ensure that the demographic structure of the North-East is kept intact. The Centre should strengthen the presence of border security force along the borders with Bangladesh," Meghalaya Chief Minister DD Lapang told a Press conference.

"They should enhance its manpower and modernise its mechanism for checking immigration. We also expect financial support for modernising our police forces," he added.

He was joined by his counterpart from Arunachal Pradesh Gegong Apang, Manipur CM O Ibobi Singh, Mizoram CM Zoramthanga and Nagaland CM Neiphiu Rio.

Differences within the states on the issue of illegal immigration, however, became evident with Mr Rio virtually charging Assam with not taking steps to check it.

"Assam has almost become a breeding ground for illegal migrants as they are procuring documents like ration cards there and then coming to the hills, this is very dangerous," the Nagaland CM said.

Mr Rio also claimed that such migrants were being settled in disputed areas between Assam and several other states.

The Congress-led Maharashtra Government also made a strong plea to the Centre for greater coordination and support to tackle the problem of Bangladeshi nationals, whose "heavy influx" into the state, especially in Mumbai, posed a serious threat to the internal security.

Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh, addressing the conference of internal security, said a large number of Bangladeshi nationals were settled in the slums in Mumbai and some other cities like Pune, Nagpur, Nasik, and their involvement in criminal activities and organised crime was growing.

Besides, a number of Bangladeshi girls are also finding their way into the flesh trade and dance bars of Mumbai, he said, adding that detection, arrest and deportation of the Bangladeshi nationals was "problematic and time-consuming."

Mr Deshmukh wanted a more effective, cohesive and institutionalised mechanism of intelligence sharing between the Centre and the state, considering Mumbai's special place in the overall security scenario.

He wanted the Centre to help the state set up a team for Mumbai to tackle the situation arising out of possible deployment of weapons of mass destruction by terrorists in Mumbai.

Mr Deshmukh said intelligence reports have indicated the gameplan of Pakistan's ISI of landing arms and explosives on the west coast of India and simultaneously operating through the underworld to push in fake currency to shatter the economy.

The Left Front Government of West Bengal was also equally forceful in its presentation about the threat from infiltration. Expressing serious concern over infiltration of ISI agents into India from the neighbouring country who are engaged in espionage and other 'subversive activities, Chief Minister Buddhadeb Bhattacharya said state police along with the central agencies have been taking effective action against these elements.

West Bengal has been maintaining a strict vigil along the entire stretch of the state's international border, particularly with Bangladesh, it has put its machinery on high alert and was closely monitoring the situation, he said.

Apart from the continuing incidents of infiltration across the Indo-Bangladesh border, Mr Bhattacharya said recent intelligence inputs indicating heightened activities of the ISI and fundamentalist organisations in the neighbouring country pose a serious threat to the Eastern region of India.

"Yesterday Once More" Part 1: FOIL PRIMER
By Narayanan Komerath

A Destitute Hindu

Sometimes I feel, India may not be a rudderless ship (136 Billion Forex), it is that Indians may be navigating International waters without a compass (they lack CDC). Or there are too many captains of the calm sea on board S.S.INDIA, (mind you I never said M.V.INDIA, big difference -- one is steam ship, the other a motor vessel) But does not the GOI know that too many cooks spoil the broth?

This is what is exactly happening with our India, if New Delhi is something to be looked at, For we have quasi junk, dormant, do-nothing PMO on one side, untutored MEA on the other hand which is busy producing mother of all blunders a la Korea (yes, nukes are big mistake of India), Nepal (no Indian arms for it, only Pak-China), Vatican (mourning blunder) and finally a queen Sonia with crown sans Indian Monarchy, with yes mam stooges a la Ahmed Patels.

Too many crooks spoil the brothel.

With above unique qualities full of petty character, why do you think western nations would give us any respect? Don't these nations fully know, that even a country like Sudan is better than India on certain terms?

Sudan, being a pariah state of course, nevertheless, this tiny winy country has never been stamped as soft state, lamb state, comatose country, rudderless ship and all other contemptuous names synonyms with India. This smaller country is capable of defying UN a la Darfur, do what they think is good for them a la China (although it may not be), but they have the resolve, which India lacks big time.

What good is your gun if you cannot fire it?

When is the last time we played a hardball with pony Bangladesh - leave mighty US alone for a moment? In an international arena India is like a burger with bone, whiskey without alcohol, that nobody desires. Look at Mister Modi who was cloned as Castro by State Dept scientists because he possesses all the qualities to be the future Prime Minister of India.

Writing is on the sky, Look at the pregnant Falcons flying with a womb (nukes).

Indians should not be asked what is wrong with them, everything is wrong since inception of Mughul Raj of India, Mahatma Gandhi's FIR was filed in Urdu language, Jawaharlal Nehru was upbeat on Farsi than Hindi language, our Rajya Sabha members a la Shabana and Kuldeeps are busy protecting Islamic terrorists and questioning our police instead (ansal plaza), rather they should be asked what is right with them. If Indians cant care for their own survival -- nothing is right with them -- never will be.

Gone are those days of cavemen's world, where crime did strike first, police came later, right now we live in a lawful society bound by ethics n constitution and not otherwise, hence the onus is on our premiers and chiefs of the Indian high command to ensure that they deliver the prudent and conducive environment for us Indians to live in which we should be free from corrupt clutches of Laloos, Shahi imams of India and Dawoods of Pakistan and survive peacefully -- to thrive in India seems to be the luxury.

Haji Mastan is long dead but long liveth Dawood Ibrahim with star and crescent empire of Islam, who with his giant robotic arm, transfers Indian resources to Islamabad, with his multi million extortion empire, whose victims are exclusively Hindus -- there is no stop to Hindu misery; http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_050324.htm

I am sorry, but our own secular Hindus are not realizing what is waiting in the wings for them, come September. Why do they always think hunky dory despite Sabarmati Express a la Godhra, Ghatkoper Bomb Blast, Coimbatore Bomb Blast, Bombay Bomb Blast, where a series of fifteen massive explosions rocked the length and breadth of Bombay, India on Friday, March 12, 1993? The blasts, which killed at least two hundred and twenty-eight people and injured more than 1,200, reportedly struck several Bombay neighborhoods simultaneously.

Don't worry, that was, after all, the same thinking of those rich Hindus of Hyderabad under Nizam's rule and those of Noakhali, who got decimated and got converted ultimately. It would be your turn next, if you don't mend your ways of Ishwar-Allah and Ram-O-Rahim a la Gandhi.

Nearly half a million Kashmiri Hindu Pundits are still knocking some doors without success.

Hindus better be proud villains of today than a poor victims of tomorrow.

Turn the tide on phony seculars by thinking 3D.

Keshto Patel.

Hi there!







I'm doing a schoolproject were one of the questions sounds like this:



"Why did India split into India AND Pakistan in 1947" ?



My schoolbook tells me that under the WW2 the British empire wanted India to take a part on their side in the war. And the British used the promises "independent state" as baite to this.



When the WW2 was over, the muslims wanted their own state to get away from the chaos, and that is why they splitted India into two countries... but that doesen't say it all..



Can someone please tell me the answer on my schoolproject-question, or atleast try??

I would be glad for some help please=)



Greets

<b>Shinkansen in Chandersen's world</b>



Interesting were the recent reports about Indians getting luxurious, bulbous bow, terrain hugging Shinkansen, a high speed rail network or bullet trains (dangan ressha) as they are known outside Nippon for their blistering pace, for Ahemedabad-Mumbai and Hyderabad route.



Interesting I say, because in Japan's efficient world of Shinkansen, left right and center, they blend in perfectly with other high tech surrounding of building, bridges and cement jungle, but such would not be the case, in case of India, which would look like a Zenaida asiatica (white-winged dove) among the corvus corax (raven), considering the surrounding structures of Indian infrastructure to be incongruous cosmetically, and if that would not be enough, there would be some folks defecating in the open, exposing their genitals to the dismay of high class paying travelers of the future


India ordering bullet train, Is like a Mumbai slum dweller ordering his food from Leela Kempinski - a five star hotel.


Above paragraph should not be taken lightly, For we are not known to produce world class products and buildings (quote Ratan Tata). We try to make them good but never better, leave the best for now. The first impression of any foreigner is that of his landing at Indian Airport, and you know where I am coming from. Look at the Changi Airport of Singapore, Sears Towers, the marvels of quality engineering at its best, and our old fashioned airports with bare basics.


But it does not matter, If bullet train would give us a face lift, so be it, lets go ahead and import them from Japan Rail, lay our tracks and ply them. When our Cambridge educated, blue turban PM has decided to do it, hey, let us all do it, lets join hands and create consensus on this. Japanese Shinkansen travel is exorbitantly expensive for international tourists, imagine a cup of coffee costing 3 dollar plus in Tokyo, against this backdrop India should do more to attract tourists with nation wide bullet train network attracting many more travelers in the process at one-tenth of the cost of Japanese ride, well, so is the coffee price.


But do we have Madam Sonia's nod for such a massive project? Boy, Italy is a high speed train friendly country too, they have ETR 500 series that runs 300 KPH too. Something is amiss that I don't understand. Why Japanese and not Italian? Is Sushi better than Spaghetti and Pasta? It seems so in this case. While Indians have just one model to choose from Italy, Japan on the other hand offers several (0 series, 100,200,300,400,500,700,800, E-1, E-2,E-3, E-4, N700, 700T series) with its impressive record of safety attached as a tag of quality. Milestone indeed with millions of enthusiasts worldwide collecting various bullet train models.





When we talk about Shinkansen, the speed factor comes to the fore instantly, For that is the mainstay of these high velocity trains coupled with comfort and luxury. And as we do not have no proper information of which model GOI would choose among several models going from, and whether they would be diesel to save on overhead electric line (The world's fastest diesel train is the Russian TEP80, at 273 km/h) or electric, Japan Rail/Hitachi have both the versions although diesel is not in vogue in Japan so Keshto would not speculate on this.


Talk about high speed trains, Japan is the Mecca with its vast network full of super fast trains with 300 runs a day on busy network and around 3 billion passenger so far to its credit. Mother of all the high speed rail network, yet running the trains punctually, efficiently and fares reimbursed should the train be late, truly remarkable system with no parallels! Can we expect the same from Indians used to Indian Railways, the biggest employer of India?


Then there is a track issue, High speed trains require new train track that would use no fish plates, it should be welded all the way and laid over thick bed of ballast because of terrible earth shaking velocity.


Last but not the least, its safety factor. When you pay them their price you ought to demand the best, For what is high speed worth sans safety? Japanese engineers have installed seismic monitors on newer lines at every 20 KM, by virtue of being the most earthquake prone country in the world.



On the other hand India is a land of traitors and terrorists who have already demonstrated their prowess in the form of Bombay Bomb Blast where they beat 300 Hindu businessmen of Dalal Street with terror stick. So it is but natural for our GOI to ask the manufacturer about possible installation of some sensors against potential sabotage -- kind of early warning. It should be noted that each bullet train stops (when brakes applied) at about 3 km far, which takes about one minute plus of time.


How easy it would be to derail the super fast train by simply putting an obstacle on the track and make it fall like a nine pins.

We don't want more S-6 compartments on our bullet a la Godhra please!


And finally do Indians have to go with sushi and sake to enjoy bullet trains ride?

Not at all. Remember the old ads for Hebrew National hot dogs -- you don't have to be Jewish to love them.

Shinkansen is not kosher Item, yet it is pride of Japan, newer models have big letters printed on them saying; AMBITIOUS JAPAN.

Think 3D

Kosher Keshto Patel