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I can relate the discrimination agains Brahmins (including Saiva pillai and saiva mudaliar and nattukottai chettiar) to the discrimination against Tamils in SriLanka, both are discriminated in their own land.



And one lesson the rest of TN has to learn from Brahmins in TN and Srilankan Tamils is the more you compress a

spring it is going to bounce hell of a lot.



I respect the Srilankan Tamils a lot as they are not influenced by the Stupid non-tamilian EVR's (who himself is a Naidu - vadukar or northener) idealogies and they have a great respect for Brahmins. Especially in europe they are so keen to learn the carnatic music and vadhyams (seen as Brahmins stuff in TN), I can categorically say that atleast 90% people learning carnatic music in Europe are Srilankan Tamils.



One simple example, most of the Tamil Temples in Europe were established by Srilankan Tamils, so if they wanted they could have appointed one of their non-brahmin people as priests? did they? Still all the priests in Tamil Temples are from Brahmin community (SL and TN). They are more broad-minded than TN non-brahmin Tamils and they know appointing specialists for a job is always the correct thing.



This might sound silly, but remeber one dialogue from movie Madrassapattinam , where after independence the heroine tells her dad that "why should we leave the country we have made this our land" for that the dad replies "indians (he meant locals of madras at that time) are ungrateful people and we cannot stay". Excellent and True, I would say TN non-brahmin tamils are so ungrateful people who forget how brahmins have contributed to the development for Tamil language and literature and are stupidly influenced by the EVR and KK's idealogies, who both are non-tamilians. And one can tell that DMK Karunanidhi is NOT a tamilian because he did not care for the Tamils murdered or r**ed in SL during the recent war. I also have to agree that Vijakanth and Vaioko both Ethnic Telugu Naidu people supported Srilankan Tamils, may be for political benefits.



Accept or not 50% of IT in South India is dominated by 2-3% of Brahmins, however there wont be a Brahmin doctor in the future in TN.



Btw Naidu's themself does not care about Periyar EVR as they come under FC category.

Many Hindu texts and saints have been of the view that India (aka Bharatavarsha) is the most virtuous nation or subcontinent in the world. For instance, it is said in the Vishnu Purana that it requires a lot of karmic merit to take birth in (the supposedly holy land of) India.



From the Hindu point of view, and in, say, pre-Christian times, this would have been absolutely true. However, considering that such statements of praise continue to be made by saints and politicians alike, this needs some explanation.



First off, India is obviously not the most comfortable country to live in. Some folks there in villages don't even have access to clean water. However, if we compare per capita carbon emission rates as well as per capita consumption rates, India is among the lowest in the world. The country with the maximum percentage of lacto-vegetarians is also India, so much more virtuous than the atrocities of China and the US on killing animals for their food.



A Hindu here will probably say that since India lets others use the world's resources and suffers herself the plight made by the greed of the rest of the world instead of fighting it out ruthlessly and stealing it away, it is among the most virtuous countries there is -- or at least that its citizens are some of the most virtuous men around (in terms of progress/harm caused to the rest of the world at the cost of one's own trouble/flourishing).



In light of the chaotic state of affairs as far as public welfare is concerned, a Hindu might well argue that since India is the most dense country by population, the way things are going on right now is actually far better than how messed up it could have been, had it been the case in an American or Chinese cultural setup.



What do you say?



[please keep an open mind here and your patriotic and ethnic prejudices away]



P.S.:

1. Caste is not an exclusively Indian phenomenon. Other countries have all kinds of social divisions and many of them more oppressive than caste. China is much more oppressive with its people -- India is so much more liberal.

2. Women, again, have been abused and disallowed their rights for most of recorded history and in all nations and cultures. A Hindu woman only gets herself assigned by social laws to specific duties (childrearing, homemaking, etc.) but have not been banned from political action, whereas until the 20th century in Europe and China women were actively forbidden from political participation and downtrodden.

3. Over 80% of India is Hindu.

[url="http://www.hindustantimes.com/Obama-in-trade-mode-announces-deals-worth-10-bn/H1-Article1-622778.aspx"]Obama in trade mode, announces deals worth $10 bn[/url]

Quote:US President Barack Obama is announcing $10 billion in trade deals with India that are expected to help pay for 54,000 US jobs. He's also unveiling new export rules to make it easier for US companies to do business with India. Some of the changes, including relaxing controls on India's purchase of so-called "dual use" technologies that could be used for civilian or military purposes, have been top priorities for the business community.

"Americans helped build India and Indians helped build America," he said in a speech to business leaders in Mumbai.



Obama made the announcements on Saturday in a speech to US and Indian business executives on the first day of his 10-day, four-country Asia trip. In the wake of Democrats' midterm election losses, attributed partly to continued high unemployment in the U.S., the White House is working overtime to present Obama's trip as singularly focused on US jobs and the domestic economy.



The commercial deals include the purchase of 33 737s from Boeing by India's SpiceJet Airlines; the Indian military's plans to buy aircraft engines from General Electric; and preliminary agreement between Boeing and the Indian Air Force on the purchase of 10 C17s.

What happens to the forum Santabanta?

Earlier they have erased three of my blogs after nearly 100 hits of each blog without showing any reason. Whereas the blogs are running in other international forums.

Now, as I am going to access the forum I get the reply:

asur, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?

2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

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Dr. S Chakraborty

A P C Ray Polytechnic

Calcutta

This topic will look at the temperory pause in muslim rioting - post partition, and the restarting of muslim rioting

Implications of the verdict



HC has given a very clear verdict, leaving little scope for conjectures. It has surprised VHP, being much beyond their expectations. After all, there was a real risk of HC trying to appear secular.



It has left Congi clueless. They seem to be in a daze. Karunanidhi has been struck dumb. Reds too are silent. Wind has been taken out of their sails.



Sickular trio of Mulayam, Laloo and Paswan are not disclosing their cards, but they must be scheming about how to exploit the judgement. Even they seem to be stymied.



But recall that none of these sso called secularists has ever declared : There shall be a masjid there.



Laloo-Paswan strategy



It is a heaven sent opportunity for the duo to frighten or cajole the muslims into their camp. They will, of course, blame Congi and Central Govt, for their inability to to protect "secular" cause. If that happens, Congi might be pressed making some "secular" noises like a possible law for masjid. It cannot do it openly, but hints can be dropped. Otherwise Congi has no alternatives, and it rout in Bihar is gauranteed.



What about Nitish and NDA? A consolidation of muslims behind Laloo-Paswan will defintely bring in pressures. BJP has nothing lose, but Nitish might lose a lot. Will he now be a bit defensive about his opposition to Narendra Modi? Likely, but not gauranteed. In response to muslim consolidation, BJP too might try for a Hindu consolidation. After all, Yadavs are not "secular" enough to disown Ram Lalla. After all, they too are Hindus. What has Laloo got to offer the OBCs now? Nothing more.

They have got their share of pie.



Bihar election will tell a lot.

Hindu Samhati is founded by Shri Tapan Kumar Ghosh, ex-RSS activist, who left RSS because Sangh Parivar

is incapable of protecting Hindus in Bengal

While there is the need for the Sangh Parivar, it is obvious, that it is hopelessly inadequate

and we need to consider existing alternates



The first example I have is Bharat Sevashram Sangha



IMHO, one of the weaknesses when the Hindu movement passed from Aurobindo to Savarkar is

that Savarkar was an atheist



IMHO, deep religious faith is needed to fight the abrahamics, in addition to the other skills needed

Muslim rule from Delhi from 1206-1707 (= 501 years)



The Muslim rulers of Delhi influenced more or less the politics from the fortified residences within their annexed areas the life in and outside those areas. While they could dominate (read terrorize) the cities, towns and countryside outside their strongholds but within their kingdom respectively empire, they tried to conquer the inimical strongholds outside their kingdom with planned raids of the cities, towns and countryside and sieges of their strongholds. These were either annexed or remained independent.



The Turki and Mughal invasions were attempted to conquer and rule over India. The Islamiced Turks from the Ghazni belt, pressing the local Bauddha Turks and Hindu/Bauddha Pathans and other locals, managed to rule over Delhi and other fortified areas in the northern plains. The Mughals started from 1221 on with their attempts from the Ghazni-Gandhara belt. They only managed to conquer India in 1526, to lose it again in 1540, and regain it in 1555 , with the help of Iran.

Four groups of Mughals, Turks, Pathans and other Indians interacted, with the Hindu-remaining Indians within specific geographical zones, which I call Mandalas, from Central-Asia to the Indian seas.



Mandalas (belt): Political wave effects on India from geo-zones



I. OXUS-JAXARTES VALLEYS

1. Khurasan Mandala (Khurasani areas)

This area was important for the developments into the subcontinent from the Hindukush deep into the Indo-Gangetic plains. The Islamiced Turks and Tajiks and other E-Iranic (E-Iranian and descendants of Sakas and Tukharas) were dominant in these areas with a hybrid but predominantly Persian culture.

Mughal invasion, enslaving Turks from the north, and then also Turks and Tajiks from Khurasan caused a deep antagonism between Turks-Tajiks and Mughals.



II. OUTER INDIA (Pash/khtuni areas)

2. Ghazni-Gandhara Mandala

Migrated Turks and Tajiks already settled or freshly arrived from Khurasan dominated the local newly Islamiced Pathans-Hindkos-other Hindus and non-Islamiced populations. This caused a deep antagonism of the Turk-Tajik with the local freshly Islamized Pathans-others and non-Islamized Hindu groups.

With the Mughal invasion within the Ghazni-Gandhara Mandala, we get three antagonistic groups: Mughals-Turks and Tajiks-Pathans and Hindus.



III. INNER INDIA (Pakistani areas)

3A. Indus Valley Mandala: (WPanjab-Multan-Sindh)

After the Ghazni Mandala the next thread came from the Islamized Indus Valley centers in Lahore and Multan. The last was an Ismaili Shiite mini-belt.



B. North India Mandala

In this Mandala the power triangle Delhi-Bangal-Gujarat influenced other centers like Rajputana, Malwa-Mathura and the Mid-Gangetic. Political fortified centers and other citadels were interlinked, Hindu religious centers were converted into Muslim ones, changing also their place names.



The four Sunnite tribes formed these groupings: Khurasano-Afghani Mughals, Turk and Tajiks versus Afghano-Hindustani converted Pathans and converted Hindus. Both groupings were antagonistic towards each other, but both were religiously hostile towards Hindus. Pathans were spread in the Purab and other countrysides.



C. South India Mandala

In this Mandala the Iranian Shiites started a belt in the Deccan, wagings political wars against the Sunnites from the North, with help of the Hindus, but religious wars with help of Sunnites against the same Hindus from the South.



The Muslims, starting from Muhammad bin Sam established bases for Muslim overlords over Hindu rulers who paid tribute. At local levels within direct Muslim rule, a host of lesser chieftains (muqqaddams) and headmen (khots) were employed during Alauddin Khilji, as per Barni.

During Muhammad Tughluq, Hindus who lived in villages under a Muslim officer or Hakim were distinguished from Hindus of the Mawasat (jungles, bare or barren lands).



Dar-ul-Islami heartland

A. The fortified areas (forts, towns, cities) were under direct Sultanate rule.

B. The open countryside was land of the infidels: The landholders (zamindar) and peasants (dahiqin) are only ostensily subjects (ra'aya-yi suri), paying taxes out of fear of the sword.



Dar-ul- Harbi periphery

A. Zaminbus areas; loosely tolerated Hindu kingdom areas were existent due to paying tributes (pAibUs, zamInbUs).

B. Mawas areas: these were beyond control. Even Muslim rebels and dissidents took refuge there, forming a cluster sometimes of Hindu and Muslim partizans.

Two means of attacking these Harbi areas were through actions of Sultani Swords and Sufi Saints.



Within every stronghold area of the Delhi Sultanate, there were pacified Zaminbus royals and troublemaking Mawas rebels. The Delhi and other Sultans never controlled their subjects outside the fortified dots within their kingdoms. Therefore, any map depicting the geographical limits of their power with one colour, is giving a highly flattered picture!



In the Sultanate Period, the largest kingdoms were under:

a. Turki Balban Mamluk

b. Turkoid Alauddin Khalaji

c. Turki Muhammad Tughluq

d. Turkoid Sikandar Lodi (Khalaji)



The Padishah Period has three subperiods:

A. Babur and Humayun

B. Interregnum Suri Pathans

C1. Akbar: most influential Padishah

2. Jahangir

3. Shah Jahan

4. Aurangzeb: largest kingdom





I. 1st Delhi Kingdom (1206-1398 = 192 years)

1. Turki Mamluks (1206-1290 = 84 years)

Shamanist Mughal threats, at least 15 major invasions.



A. Qutbuddin Aibak (1206-1210)

B. Aram Shah (1210-1211)

C. Iyaltimish (1211-1236)

1223/4 Dorbey and Bala Mughals invade Multan and Lahore for Chengiz Khan (1206-1227)

1235 Kashmir area invaded for Ogodei (1227-1241)

Pakchak Mughal invades Peshawar for Ogodei (1227-1241)



D. Rukuddin Firuz (1236), Razia Sultana (1236-1240), Muizzuddin Bahram (1240-1242), Alauddin Masud (1242-1246) , Nasiruddin Masud (1246-1266)

1239 Mughal held the tract beyond the Chenab.

1241 Dayir and Mengutei Mughal invasion of Lahore for Ogodei (1227-1241)

Sali Mughal invades Kashmir area for Mongke (1251-1257)

1245/6 Mengutai Mughal invasion of Uch and Multan

1248-1252 Sali Mughal invades Multan and Lahore for Hulagu (1257-): bought of.. Lahore and Sindh became Mughal

1257 Kushlu Khan invades Delhi

1257/8 Sali Mughal occupies Ucch and Multan for Hulagu

NOTE: Ulugh Khan Balban was active as general against the Mughal invasions. Not always successful.



E. Ghiyasuddin Balban (1266-1286)

Annual Mughal attacks, as far as Rupar on the Satlaj, as per Barni.

1266 Mughals crossed the Beas river and attacked Uch.

1268 Balban takes Lahore from Mughal subordinate Kushlu Khan.

1284/5 Temur Mughal defeats Balban's general at Ravi junction with Dhandh.



F. Muizzuddin Kaikubad (1286-1290)

Kayumars (1290) only three years old was dethroned by his guardian Alauddin Khalaji.

1287 Temur Mughal invades territory between Lahore and Samana.



2. Turkoid Khalajis (1290-1320 = 30 years)

Shamanist some Muslim Mughal invasions, 10 counted.

1303 Siri and Jahanpanah fortifications repaired.



A. Jalaluddin Firuz

1291 Mughal invasion at frontier.

1292 Abdallah Mughal invasion: Alughu into Panjab, Alughu and his 4000 advance guard became the New Muslims and settled in Delhi's Mughalpur quarter, main thread of Mughals was bought off.



B. Ali Gurshasp Alauddin (1296-1316): usurped the throne

1st Mughal invasions 1296-7 Duva Khan: in 1297 Jalandhar

2nd Mughal invasion 1297/8 Saldi

3rd Mughal invasion 1399 Qutluq Khvaja into Delhi

4th Mughal invasion 1303 Targhay into Delhi

5th Mughal invasion 1303 Ali Beg and Tartaq into Panjab

6th Mughal invasion 1306 Kebek into Multan and Panjab

7th Mughal invasion 1307/8 Iqbalmand and Taibu at Indus river. Duva Khan died, succession war.

Mughal commander tried to kill Malik Kafur in 1311 > all Mughals of Sultanate murdered.



C. Qutbuddin Mubarak Shah (1316- 1320)

1320 Mongol invasion of Zulju into Kashmir



- Interregnum

1320 Sultan Khushrau Khan Parvar: Hindus and their cults (ban on cow-slaughter) again revered.



3. Turki Tughluqs (1320-1413 = 93 years)

Three Mughal invasions

A. Giyathuddin (1320-1325)



B. Muhammad (1325-1351): 'usurped' the throne

1327 Mughal invasion Tarmashirin into Lamghan-Multan-siege Delhi. Thread was bought off. Bauddha Tarmashirin later became Muslim.

Mughal raids of Amir Qazaghan into Northern India

Mughal Amir Qazaghan helped Muhammad suppress rebellions in 1350.



C. Firuz Shah (1351-1388)

Note: Timur from 1363 ruler of Transoxiana-Khurasan: centralization (politics), Islamization (religion) and Islamo-Persianization (culture). A split between Islamiced and non-Islamized Chaghatai Mughals. He tried to found a new Mughal empire.



II. 2nd Delhi Kingdom (1398-1556 = 158 years)

1398 DESTRUCTIVE RAID TIMUR A CHAGATAYID MUGHAL

1398-1414 anarchy and regionalism

Many areas in Northern India were untouched by the weakened Delhi kingdom.



a. Saiyads (1414-1451 = 47 years)

A. Khizr Khan (1414-1421): vassal of the Timurid Chaghatays (Mughal)

B. Mubarak Khan (1421-1434)

C. Muhammad Shah (1434-1445)

D. Alauddin Alam Shah (1445-1451)



b. Turkoid Lodis (Khalajis) (1451-1526 = 75 years)

A. Bahlul (1451-1489)

B. Sikandar (1489-1517)

C. Ibrahim (1517-1526

Mughal invasion of Babar



c. Timurid Chaghatay Mughals (1526-1556 = 30 years)

A. Babar (1526-1530) – hated his Mughal ancestry, considered himself a Turk, but Barlas are Mongols.

B1. Humayun 1st rule (1530-1545)

C. - Interregnum Pathan Suris (1540-1555)

B2. Humayun 2nd rule (1555-1556)

- Interregnum Hemu (1556)



III. Delhi Empire (1556-1707 = 151 years)

A. Akbar (1556-1605)

B. Jahangir (1605-1627)

- Interregnum (1527-1528)

C. Shah Jahan (1528-1558)

D. Aurangzeb (1558-1707)





The above described scheme includes many blank incidents, not mentioned in standard works, such as the prolonged Mughal attempts to conquer India from 1221 on. Omitting the weight of these invasions, and even all the occurring ones in contemporary works indicates the submissive nature of court writers to their Turki patrons. Many facts, like defeats were not given proper attention. Exageration of their own exploits were not uncommon. (This is equally true of their defeats at Hindu hands.)



The scheme has the benefit to get a better grasp of the political picture, related to the regnal periods and extent of their dominion. Keeping in mind that the Muslims only controlled fortified dots within their kingdom, we get also a picture of the partly independent tributary Rajas and also the fully independent and uncontrollable rulers.

We get a better outlining of the heoric Hindu resistence.



The severe threats of the invasions of the Mughals were the real cause of the relocations of the capital seat in Delhi, and even once outside Delhi during the Tughluqs. There wasn't any time and money to build from scratch any major city, fort or building, thus the Sultans were content with usurping preexisting ones, making them fit or embellishing them to acquire Islamic standards, to pacify their Ulemas.



Another factor to reckon with is the political and religious interaction of 4 groups of Muslims (outer belt Mughals, outer belt Tajik-Turks, inner belt Pathans and other converted, inner belt converted Hindus; actually a fifth is when taking the Shiites apart from the Sunnites) with each other and against the non-Muslim Hindus.

This scheme provides a handy tool to outline the atrocities commited by the Muslims rulers, originating from which belts and by which of their 5 groups, and thus getting a twofold better picture of the Hinducides and total Hinducaust and the developments of architecture.

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